Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card

[Peterbard]

Surely Peter, as there are prescribed terms missing, namely credit limit, interest rate and their signature this makes it unenforceable ??

 

Hi

Yes of course but the heading alone would not.

 

Best regards

Peter

[Josie8]

Surely Peter, as there are prescribed terms missing, namely credit limit, interest rate and their signature this makes it unenforceable ??

 

 

See under financial and related particulars for credit limit and interest rate.

[Peterbard]

HI

Forgot to add

Bear in mind that they are allowed to leave off hthe signature on a 77-79 request.

Although it would be required should the case go to court.

 

Peter

[Curlyben]

Thanks for the clarification there Peter.

 

Josie, under the section you mentioned it is general, as in once the card is approved then these are the rates you will get. There is NO indication on this form which card you are applying for or even what the limit is. Also for credit limit is says that it will be advise as and when the app is accepted.

So NO prescribed terms as per CCA.

[Peterbard]

HI J

 

I was just replying to the post sorry i hadn't looked at the "Agreement"

 

In Running account credit agreements the prescribed therms are as you say.

However the regulations say that they are allowed to give a method in which they will calculate these if htey cannot provide a figure and if they do that is sufficiant.

 

I would have to look at the document more closely but i suspect they have complied with this.

 

Best regards

Peter

[out of cash]

hi again peter,

 

sorry to keep bothering you but could do with some serious advice on a couple of cca requests both creditors are now seeking court action 7 days time?

[davefirewalker]

hi again peter,

 

sorry to keep bothering you but could do with some serious advice on a couple of cca requests both creditors are now seeking court action 7 days time?

 

Firstly they are both the same scan

 

secondly its an application, NO sign of any prescribed terms

 

think you might be safe with that one

 

Dave

[Peterbard]

hi again peter,

 

sorry to keep bothering you but could do with some serious advice on a couple of cca requests both creditors are now seeking court action 7 days time?

 

Hi for the court

 

The true copy of the agreement i recieved in response to my section 78 request does not correspond in either form or content to those prescribed under section 60 of he Act.

There is no shedule 1 information as per the rgulations1983/1553.

This means that there are also no prescribed terms.

The lack of the latter will render this agreement unenforceable under section 127(3) of the act via section 60(1)a

 

Hope that helps i am off to bed now very tired

 

best regards

Petr

[out of cash]

hi peter,

 

once again many thanks for your help.

 

best regards

 

out of cash

[out of cash]

hi davefirewalker,

 

sorry about the scan errors new one now re posted mint.zip

 

regards

 

out of cash

[LISAM696969]

Hi Peter , if you could have a closer look at the form posted on last page would really appreciate it , lisam

[davefirewalker]

Hi Peter , if you could have a closer look at the form posted on last page would really appreciate it , lisam

 

Hi lisa

 

The major prescribed terms are there..

 

credit limit or how it will be decided

repayments

interest rate or how it will be decided + examples

 

you've signed and they have stamped....not a signature but....maybe acceptable if it went that far!

 

some required terms are not there but may be in the t&C

 

my opinion of this one is that it may be enforceable, but might require a court to decide. Who knows the mind of a judge, but I feel in this case with that document that a court may well decide in their favour.

 

sorry, just my oppinion.....could be wrong

 

rgds

Dave

[LISAM696969]

Stamp is not a stamp its a promotional code and i haven't got any further terms and conditions for anything to be in or any cancellation rights does this make any difference ?

[Peterbard]

HI

 

I would challenge this as to enforceability.

The regulations section 2 says information required to be in a regulated agrement not in another sheet headed terms and conditions. Although you can cross reference within the agreement you can not reference to an outside sheet of information.The Schedule 1 3-13 information which contains the prescribed terms should be on the same document as the singature box, referiong to it in an outside source is not good enough.

I would write back thanking them for their true copy but point out that it is unenforceable for the above reasons.

 

Best regards

 

Peter

[davefirewalker]

Stamp is not a stamp its a promotional code and i haven't got any further terms and conditions for anything to be in or any cancellation rights does this make any difference ?

 

Unfortunately if you have signed a document that has all the prescribed terms, even if they havent signed it would still be enforceable. see CCA1974 s.127 (3)

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

It is missing other things though which may mean a court has to rule on its enforceability

 

Dave

[LISAM696969]

Many many thanks guys i cannot write to thme again as they now say the matter is closed and will not correspond with me further so ihave put in a complaint to F.O.S and information commisioner so if anyone has anything to add then as always be gratefully received otherwise i will have to wait as they said it has been passed to their solicitors sounds like court may be looming !!! however i have told them it is in dispute as citi /associates have not settled the charges bit yet so i think they can't is that right ?

[davefirewalker]

Many many thanks guys i cannot write to thme again as they now say the matter is closed and will not correspond with me further so ihave put in a complaint to F.O.S and information commisioner so if anyone has anything to add then as always be gratefully received otherwise i will have to wait as they said it has been passed to their solicitors sounds like court may be looming !!! however i have told them it is in dispute as citi /associates have not settled the charges bit yet so i think they can't is that right ?

 

They cant just say the case is closed if things are outstanding !!

 

I would still write to them anyway, even if only to wind them up

 

Dave

[out of cash]

hi peter ,

 

hope you are well.my apologies for bothering you again as i know this is not one of your favourite past times ie, application or agreement however could you kindly take a look at the attachment which the rbs are saying thi is a true copy which they will be relying on i have already said to them where is their sig and the terms of conditions relating to the time of the agreement they have sent the usual booklet 2007 do you think i could defend this in court as they are getting a bit gun happy?

 

best regards

 

 

out of cash

[davefirewalker]

At first glance it seems to have everything it needs. It has all the prescribed terms, their sig would probably be the stamp on page 1, signature stamps are allowed. you might have a tough time walking away from this one.

 

I need to study it more closely and refer it to the regs

 

post later

 

Dave

[out of cash]

hi dave,

 

many thanks for your reply i am desperate with this one so am looking at every detail which could make this unenforceable.

 

the only things i can find that are a bit wrong would b i think their sig should be on the actual page of the agreement along with mine in seperate boxes i note their stamp and sig is on the 1st page if this is the 1st page of the agreement above the heading which states summary of your application all the usual little boxes sign this only if you want to stuff is on applications for visa cards if this isnt the case i have 5 different ones all trying it on with these lovely looking text boxes only they went a bit further and put APPLICATION FORM in bold text at the top of page.

 

page 2 of key financial information mentions a section 2.j which dosent seem to exist ?

 

have a couple of visa agreements and none look like this by a long chalk. one they have supplied could be a copy and paste job knocked up version although obviously i cant prove this.I also thought the usual terms and conditions that bind you to the agreement should be the ones supplied at the time of signing they have sent some dated 2007

 

any advice or help most appreciated

 

regards to all .

 

out of cash

page 1.zip

page 2.zip

page 3.zip

[gettingthere]

Could anyone give me an opinion on this one please:

 

 

The small print under the stamp is illegible to the normal eye but I have managed to read it with a magnifying glass:

 

It basically refers to 'The conditions of use as set out overleaf' - these were not sent.

 

1. RBS will determine credit limit

2. Pay 3% within 25 days of statement.

3. Details of APR - 18.3%

4 APR may be varied

 

The goes on to say 'I confirm that this is an application .............. I have read the conditions of use overleaf.

[out of cash]

i would argue its an application they were asking you to sign an application.

 

regards

 

out of cash

[Mike220359]

hi dave,

 

many thanks for your reply i am desperate with this one so am looking at every detail which could make this unenforceable.

 

the only things i can find that are a bit wrong would b i think their sig should be on the actual page of the agreement along with mine in seperate boxes i note their stamp and sig is on the 1st page if this is the 1st page of the agreement above the heading which states summary of your application all the usual little boxes sign this only if you want to stuff is on applications for visa cards if this isnt the case i have 5 different ones all trying it on with these lovely looking text boxes only they went a bit further and put APPLICATION FORM in bold text at the top of page.

 

page 2 of key financial information mentions a section 2.j which dosent seem to exist ?

 

have a couple of visa agreements and none look like this by a long chalk. one they have supplied could be a copy and paste job knocked up version although obviously i cant prove this.I also thought the usual terms and conditions that bind you to the agreement should be the ones supplied at the time of signing they have sent some dated 2007

 

any advice or help most appreciated

 

regards to all .

 

out of cash

 

This is a odd one, I have never seen such an application form, all the prescribed terms are there but where is there signature and spaces for your info, seems like a pre-contractual agrrment to me

 

Mike

[gettingthere]

Could anyone give me an opinion on this one please:

 

 

The small print under the stamp is illegible to the normal eye but I have managed to read it with a magnifying glass:

 

It basically refers to 'The conditions of use as set out overleaf' - these were not sent.

 

1. RBS will determine credit limit

2. Pay 3% within 25 days of statement.

3. Details of APR - 18.3%

4 APR may be varied

 

The goes on to say 'I confirm that this is an application .............. I have read the conditions of use overleaf.

 

Obviously was an application form - See this thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/105052-gettingthere-rbs-mint.html

[conradsfate]

hi, could someone help and tell me if these are credit agreements. would be grateful.

 

this one from black horse.

 

 

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