Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card

[KJD]

Anyway, the main reason I am posting this message is to say that next week I am purchasing the bible on the CCA 1974. It costs over £900 but it is a worthwhile investment as it covers every area of consumer credit and will hopefully clarify some of the areas of difficulty and contradiction that exist in this far from straightforward Act.

 

Will you be buying it on credit, Laiste?!

[Laiste]

Hi KJD,

 

I couldn't stop laughing when I read your comment! Actually, it's a wonderfully wicked thought I could get them to pay for their own

demise! The truth however, is that I won't be using credit to pay for it. I refuse to have any form of credit now, I hate the banks and credit cards so much, that on principle I will not contribute to their obscene profiteering. There is definitely something very liberating about not being in the clutches of these parasites....! I think for many people the realisation of just how dependant they are on credit cards, loans etc, doesn't register until they are forced to live without credit, usually as a result of mounting debt or the decision is perhaps taken to live a different way, to escape the clutches of the bankers! There is a lot to be said for a simpler life...I'm getting all philosophical, what's going on???

 

Laiste.

[rinkydinkydoo]

Hi, take a look at this site, might be of interest

Financial Agreement Solutions

I saw it advertised on credit expert.com

New Consumer Credit act regulatoins come into force tomorrow, making it easier to challenge the consumer credit act. Plus a website's been set up promising to allow people to check whether their loan/credit card agreement is enforceable:grin:

[zubo]

Hi KJD,

 

I couldn't stop laughing when I read your comment! Actually, it's a wonderfully wicked thought I could get them to pay for their own

demise! The truth however, is that I won't be using credit to pay for it. I refuse to have any form of credit now, I hate the banks and credit cards so much, that on principle I will not contribute to their obscene profiteering. There is definitely something very liberating about not being in the clutches of these parasites....! I think for many people the realisation of just how dependant they are on credit cards, loans etc, doesn't register until they are forced to live without credit, usually as a result of mounting debt or the decision is perhaps taken to live a different way, to escape the clutches of the bankers! There is a lot to be said for a simpler life...I'm getting all philosophical, what's going on???

 

Laiste.

 

Laiste

 

I know exactly what you mean... this is my second time around... long long time ago I was v young and pretty stupid. Not sure what went wrong.. ah I remember... it was a thing called recession... my successful business suddenly hit with cancelled business or chasing money... anyway, my faithful staff stuck with me until the bitter end. For 4 months I paid myself nothing I drew money from CC, loans not paying my own personal stuff but always getting enough money together to pay the wage bill. I remember finally getting my last cheque into the business and telling everyone that it was the end of the road. I even had to bully them to go.. they wanted to work for free just so that the business could struggle through the recession... I wouldnt have it.

 

That was many years ago, I was straddled with huge debts, ccjs, felt low, little self worth, no way to turn, suicidal, etc but the strength of a wonderful partner who administered a good kick in the pants, and the advice of a total stranger - a bankruptcy accountant who gave up his Saturday fishing to listen to my sad story - only to tell me the obvious - they MAY get you in the end - just forget them and do what you do best!!

 

Slowly, painfully I did just that, it was such a relief not losing sleep trying to work out HOW to pay the wage bill. But then, things hugely improved, so much so that I lost sight of the pain of credit debt and the stupidity of it and the fragility of work - I lost a very very well paid job - for over 2 years I was unemployed... nothing, no income, not a thing, then a really crap job - but it gave me dignity and some income CCs supplemented it until finally a really good job again, but income not enough to support CCs.

So that is why I am here....battling with the rest of you... looking for ways to reduce my debt and getting back to the simple life...

 

thanks for reading....

 

but life is good, look outside - all you see is free - blue skies, fresh air...

god dammit - blue skies??? looks like I'm going to be whipped into a frazzel by HWMBO (her who must...) to crack on with finishing the borders, power jet the patio, repoint the patio, clean the barbie, sand down the crap from the furniture, varnish etc, replace broken fences, clean out the crap in the guttering, make sure the pond still has koi in it... oh the gazebo needs digging out and relaying with the latest slate bits on the floor from b&q.... when you've done that...

 

roll on Tuesday... back to work for a rest.....

 

Z

[joesoap]

Laiste

 

I know exactly what you mean... this is my second time around... long long time ago I was v young and pretty stupid. Not sure what went wrong.. ah I remember... it was a thing called recession... my successful business suddenly hit with cancelled business or chasing money... anyway, my faithful staff stuck with me until the bitter end. For 4 months I lived on CC loans not paying things but always getting enough money together to pay the wage bill. I remember finally getting my last cheque in and telling everyone that it was the end of the road. I even had to bully them to go.. they wanted to work for free just so that we could struggle through the recession... I wouldnt have it.

 

That was many years ago, I was straddled with huge debts, ccjs, felt low, little self worth, no way to turn, suicidal, etc but the strength of a wonderful partner who administered a good kick in the pants, and the advice of a total stranger - a bankruptcy accountant who gave up his Saturday fishing to listen to my sad story - only to tell me the obvious - they MAY get you in the end - just forget them and do what you do best!!

 

Slowly, painfully I did just that, it was such a relief not losing sleep trying to work out HOW to pay the wage bill. But then, things hugely improved, so much so that I lost sight of the pain of credit debt and the stupidity of it and the fragility of work - for over 2 years I was unemployed... nothing, no income, not a thing, then a really crap job - but it gave me dignity and some income CCs supplemented it until finally a really good job again, but income not enough to support CCs.

So that is why I am here....battling with the rest of you... looking for ways to reduce my debt

 

thanks for reading....

 

but life is good, look outside - all you see is free - blue skies, fresh air...

god dammit - blue skies??? looks like I'm going to be whipped into a frazzel by HWMBO (her who must...) to crack on with finishing the borders, power jet the patio, repoint the patio, clean the barbie, sand down the crap from the furniture, varnish etc, replace broken fences, clean out the crap in the guttering, make sure the pond still has koi in it... oh the gazebo needs digging out and relaying with the latest slate bits on the floor from b&q.... when you've done that...

 

roll on Tuesday... back to work for a rest.....

 

Z

 

Great words Zubo We've been there. Still are I suppose, but gradually getting better. We lost the business and my wife was made bankrupt. I kept the business going as long as I could with my early severance cash and credit cards but like you, it eventually had to stop. You can only flog a dead horse so much. That was six years ago so it's even fell off her credit file now. We managed to keep the house and to date (touch wood), the OR has not been back. Under the new rules he should hand the interest back now but I'm waiting for a few weeks before I remind him. Anyway, have a good day in the garden. That's where I've spent all week; off to my son's wedding in a couple of hours.js

[ladybird17]

joesoap - have a wonderful day, I hope the weather is as lovely up there as it is here - enjoy!

(What are you doing on here??!! -keeping out the way of the women?)

[Guest Battleaxe]

Hi, take a look at this site, might be of interest

Financial Agreement Solutions

I saw it advertised on credit expert.com

New Consumer Credit act regulatoins come into force tomorrow, making it easier to challenge the consumer credit act. Plus a website's been set up promising to allow people to check whether their loan/credit card debt is enforceable:grin:

 

That was interesting. I entered the details of our supposed Agreements with MBNA and Crap One, guess what. As none of the agreements have the prescribed bits and pieces, I was pout in a loop, as I couldn't fill anything and it it kept asking for information which is not on the supposed Agreements, so I can only assume, we have pieces of paper which a Judge might like to see. Couldn't even get to the sunmmary stage as the I had to leave all the boxes blank, regarding interest, amount, first payment etc.

[joesoap]

joesoap - have a wonderful day, I hope the weather is as lovely up there as it is here - enjoy!

(What are you doing on here??!! -keeping out the way of the women?)

 

Thanks lb. Yes, pottering around letting wor lass have a free rein (today only). Not a cloud in the sky, it's fabulous.

 

js

[joneshousehold]

Hi, take a look at this site, might be of interest

Financial Agreement Solutions

I saw it advertised on credit expert.com

New Consumer Credit act regulatoins come into force tomorrow, making it easier to challenge the consumer credit act. Plus a website's been set up promising to allow people to check whether their loan/credit card debt is enforceable:grin:

 

Interesting quote on the home page

 

Quote: Lord Justice Sedley – “the moral for a pawnbroker such as Mr Howard is that if he wants the rewards of his trade he must operate strictly by the book, and that the failure to do so may be not merely to unravel agreements, but to reverse the indebtedness that they have purportedly caused."

Penelope Wilson V Howard Pawnbrokers at the London Court of Appeal, Royal Courts of Justice, The Strand. 5th February 2005. Appeal dismissed with costs.

 

[rinkydinkydoo]

That was interesting. I entered the details of our supposed Agreements with MBNA and Crap One, guess what. As none of the agreements have the prescribed bits and pieces, I was pout in a loop, as I couldn't fill anything and it it kept asking for information which is not on the supposed Agreements, so I can only assume, we have pieces of paper which a Judge might like to see. Couldn't even get to the sunmmary stage as the I had to leave all the boxes blank, regarding interest, amount, first payment etc.

I tried to do the same and it wouldnt let me go any further, seems I dont have the needed details either, very interesting isnt it, I,m not sure Id pay a fee to have it done for me,

[davefirewalker]

Hi Zubo....

 

I'm in the same boat, same sort of thing happened to me in the late eighties early nineties, except I very nearly lost my house as well. In the end i wrote to the cheif executive of the bank (Natwest at the time) and he very graciously let me keep the house and not pusue a repossession, but kept the charge on it to be paid if I ever sell the house.

 

Now if I can just get rid of that .............

 

Dave

[The Lantana]

Laiste, Zubo, joesoap, davefirewalker et al.. Amen to that.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[Laiste]

Zubo and others are testament to the fact that there is life after

debt!

 

I really feel for the people that haven't discovered this site that are drowning in debt and being exploited disgracefully because of their plight, by the banks, c/c's and DCA's. They'll take everything you possess given half the chance, (as some here know) if you have no knowledge of the law. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Companies whose apparent watchwords are greed and exploitation. They are now reaping much to their chagrin, the consequences of what they have sown!

 

I hope everyone is enjoying the Easter break!

 

Laiste.

 

Have you finished the jobs yet Zubo that your wife kindly organised for you? It's not long till Tuesday, as you say, you can have a proper

rest then!

[zubo]

Have you finished the jobs yet Zubo that your wife kindly organised for you? It's not long till Tuesday, as you say, you can have a proper

rest then!

 

You know what Laiste - I know you ... there is such precision about you... you are so like a dear teutonic friend of mine ... yes I am not from these parts... I am from East Europe, can't you tell when I struggle with the words, or misinterpreat them - but Pam so eloquently corrects me....

 

but enough! you are correct Laiste, we must do much much more to help these poor people.... I too worry... the clever people are here, but what of others, or old people who are vunerable...

 

I worry.

 

Z

[Laiste]

Thank-you for the compliment Zubo, although I'm not sure I am quite as precise as you have kindly suggested!

 

Your messages are fine Zubo, very amusing at times, which I enjoy reading! Whereabouts in Eastern Europe are you from?

 

I hope you are enjoying the holiday!

 

Regards,

 

Laiste.

 

P.S. Keep an eye on my thread in legalities tommorow re the interest matter, that I was supposed to be getting round to! Thanks.

[hellhasnofury]

Laiste

 

I know exactly what you mean... this is my second time around... long long time ago I was v young and pretty stupid. Not sure what went wrong.. ah I remember... it was a thing called recession... my successful business suddenly hit with cancelled business or chasing money... anyway, my faithful staff stuck with me until the bitter end. For 4 months I paid myself nothing I drew money from CC, loans not paying my own personal stuff but always getting enough money together to pay the wage bill. I remember finally getting my last cheque into the business and telling everyone that it was the end of the road. I even had to bully them to go.. they wanted to work for free just so that the business could struggle through the recession... I wouldnt have it.

 

That was many years ago, I was straddled with huge debts, ccjs, felt low, little self worth, no way to turn, suicidal, etc but the strength of a wonderful partner who administered a good kick in the pants, and the advice of a total stranger - a bankruptcy accountant who gave up his Saturday fishing to listen to my sad story - only to tell me the obvious - they MAY get you in the end - just forget them and do what you do best!!

 

Slowly, painfully I did just that, it was such a relief not losing sleep trying to work out HOW to pay the wage bill. But then, things hugely improved, so much so that I lost sight of the pain of credit debt and the stupidity of it and the fragility of work - I lost a very very well paid job - for over 2 years I was unemployed... nothing, no income, not a thing, then a really crap job - but it gave me dignity and some income CCs supplemented it until finally a really good job again, but income not enough to support CCs.

So that is why I am here....battling with the rest of you... looking for ways to reduce my debt and getting back to the simple life...

 

thanks for reading....

 

but life is good, look outside - all you see is free - blue skies, fresh air...

god dammit - blue skies??? looks like I'm going to be whipped into a frazzel by HWMBO (her who must...) to crack on with finishing the borders, power jet the patio, repoint the patio, clean the barbie, sand down the crap from the furniture, varnish etc, replace broken fences, clean out the crap in the guttering, make sure the pond still has koi in it... oh the gazebo needs digging out and relaying with the latest slate bits on the floor from b&q.... when you've done that...

 

roll on Tuesday... back to work for a rest.....

 

Z

 

Hello Zubo,

 

I have previously read this thread with interest and always looked forward to your involvement. Tonight I read your post and was moved to tears. You are a true diamond. You brought me back to the place I was, the sleepless nights, the shame and fear, shouting at the children for nothing. I could not see anway out of the situation. I could not tell anybody. I wanted to get in my car and go, to where I did not know, but they would take my home and I had to look at the faces of my children I was so alone with the shame,

 

but I have found lots of people just like me and I don't have to be ashamed anymore. I don't have shame now I have wrath which is now vented at these institutes who trick us and fool us out of our money and when things go wrong they want us to pay them back everything.

 

We are now a bit more educated because of info from yourself and all the follow CAGERS who are out for justice for themselves and others.

 

I salute you integrity

[davefirewalker]

As a further note on my particular case, if there has been no contact or payment for twelve years although the charge is still there they cannot make you sell your house........guess what they tried to do just before the twelve years was up......yes they tried to get me to sign some form or other. this would have restarted the twelve years. I totally ignored them and after several letters over a period of just over 12 months they gave up.

 

the twelve year period past without incident

 

Dave

[zubo]

Hi All

 

Happy glorious Easter!!!

 

I thank you for all your lovely comments and your own personal feedback.

Laiste moved me with her post to not be so afraid of revealing a little of myself.

 

It IS a very lonely place out there when you are faced with such seemingly impassable tracts in the journey in front of you. I simply wanted to remind everyone that for a variety of reasons, mostly not of our making, a lot of people are in very similar situations and need all our help.

 

We are not here to make profit, nor to undermine the financial institutes. We are simply here to support and help each other through a tricky period in our lives. That may well mean that we will use all lawful means to do so and as good advice as we can get, but do not forget how you felt in similar circumstances and how good it feels to help.

 

Sermon over, lets go kick a// ... oh no... wife has got the power jet out to wash the patio... the car... damn!!

 

Z

 

btw Laiste - for my sins my parents are from Poland, but most of my life I have been living here... in fact I introduce myself to the new influx of Poles (another problem - I know) as an English-Pole :D:D

[Guest Battleaxe]

Zubo,

 

Love your description of your 'nationality'. I have self edited, before a MOD gets hold me. I had a funny thought about pole dancing

[zubo]

Zubo,

 

Love your description of your 'nationality'. I have self edited, before a MOD gets hold me. I had a funny thought about pole dancing

 

hehehe,

 

just read the email notification with the unabridged version... have to get my dance card out... ok line up ladies...

 

Z

[ladybird17]

I'm all agog Zubo:eek:

[sortingitout]

I have a question. I sent a CCA to MBNA, i included both account numbers i have with them, they sent me a CCA, which can be seen here>>

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/80708-cca-recieved-mbna.html

 

But they sent a note with it saying>>

 

"Copy as requested. Same application for both accounts supplied, thankyou"

 

Which cant be right, what should my next move be?

There is no account number on the CCA they sent me, should there be? because i dont know which account it refers to.

[Peterbard]

Hi

any comments on this it is from the Cancellation guide provided by the OFT as directed to by M55 Last week

The general requirement for copy documents is that one copy of the agreement

(including, if applicable, a notice of cancellation rights) must be given or sent to the

customer when the original agreement is given or sent to him for signature. A first copy

is not required where the agreement is neither presented personally nor sent to the

customer for signature – for example, a document which is also an application form that

a prospective customer picks up from a shop counter or from a leaflet dispenser.

Would appear to say an application can be an agreement and vica versa

Best regards

Petr

Regards

Peter

.

[zubo]

Hi

any comments on this it is from the Cancellation guide provided by the OFT as directed to by M55 Last week

 

The general requirement for copy documents is that one copy of the agreement

(including, if applicable, a notice of cancellation rights) must be given or sent to the

customer when the original agreement is given or sent to him for signature. A first copy

is not required where the agreement is neither presented personally nor sent to the

customer for signature – for example, a document which is also an application form that

a prospective customer picks up from a shop counter or from a leaflet dispenser.

 

Would appear to say an application can be an agreement and vica versa

 

Best regards

 

Petr

 

Regards

Peter

.

 

Lets look at this in sequence:

a prospective customer picks up the application so he applies.

So this is the first document. and this isnt required.

The application still requires a signature on the agreement, so I cannot see how this can be enforced.

Show me where it says this in CCA - this looks contradictory from OFT. Perhaps an explanation is needed from OFT?

 

Z

[m55dlc]

The general requirement for copy documents is that one copy of the agreement

(including, if applicable, a notice of cancellation rights) must be given or sent to the

customer when the original agreement is given or sent to him for signature. A first copy

is not required where the agreement is neither presented personally nor sent to the

customer for signature – for example, a document which is also an application form that

a prospective customer picks up from a shop counter or from a leaflet dispenser.

 

I'm reading this that the CCP doesn't have to provide you with a copy of the agreement when it is given to you for signature, as there isn't an agreement to send, or where the customer can take two copies of the application if they so require. If you look at this with a sensible head on, can you imagine the confusion there would be if application forms came in triplicate?