Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Peter

 

I'm not picking- I was just clarifying what I had said previously - in order to answer the question you had asked!

 

Regards, Pam

[Peterbard]

Hi Again

Interesting issue about credit scoring an agreement after you have appied on a distance contract, it is prohibited by the regs as they say that the correct apr must be shown in order to give the consumer acoorect picture of what they are buying and allow them to accurately comare products.

So in theory any agreement/application with the words rate subject to credit does not meet the standards of the regulations and is therefore unenforceable.

 

Peter

[InKogneeToh]

Hi Again

Interesting issue about credit scoring an agreement after you have appied on a distance contract, it is prohibited by the regs as they say that the correct apr must be shown in order to give the consumer acoorect picture of what they are buying and allow them to accurately comare products.

So in theory any agreement/application with the words rate subject to credit does not meet the standards of the regulations and is therefore unenforceable.

 

Peter

 

Yeah but - no but - yeah but! -

 

I can't say I've seen any agreement that say 'rate subject to credit' and the Agreements regs/TCC regs provide that various assumptions may be made when calculating the APR if the credit limit is not known.

 

Two of these is that the credit limit will be assumed to be £1,500 and that the calculation period will be 1 year. So all agreements should show at least an APR calculated using these permitted assumptions.

 

Regards, Pam

 

P.S. -

Disclaimer

This does not constitute nit-picking but is a contribution to a debate. :D

 

Regards, Pam

[Guest Battleaxe]

Laughing at the Disclaimer Pam.

 

None of our so called CC Agreements show an APR and no credit limit.

 

This applies to A & L/MBNA and Capital One. Very naughty of the credit card companies and their lazy ways.

[Peterbard]

Hi

I have developed a habit of picking up leaflets for applications everytime i see one in the bank in the petrol station etc (sad man)in order to look at the Section 1 details on them.

The one i got from tesco,s has a banding thing where depending on your credit rating you got on your credit score your interest varies between 26 and 55% apr its a Vanquis card. I have seen similar things on other aplications.

Since i picked this up from the supermarket as opposed to the bank i presume it is a distance arrangement so this really should not happen IMO.

As well as the two criterea for calculating APR you mentioned there are individual payment amounts and frequency as well as upfront costs applied to your account and any other fees, of course you new that but someone else might not have.(See how careful i am being.)

 

 

Regards

Peter

[Peterbard]

Laughing at the Disclaimer Pam.

 

None of our so called CC Agreements show an APR and no credit limit.

 

This applies to A & L/MBNA and Capital One. Very naughty of the credit card companies and their lazy ways.

Very naughty and also unenforceable of course the credit limit being a prescribed term.

The apr is unenforceable without an order from the court.

although i believe you can also make a case for unenforceability on that also under 127(1) if you can show you were missled into making the purchase by the lack of it being on the agreement.

 

Regards

Peter

[Guest Battleaxe]

Peter,

 

I think we can do that; so now we have them not only on Section 85 but Section 127 (1).

 

We have been playing poker with them, waiting for them to take us to court, but I think I will up the ante on them.

 

MBNA and Crap One, are you ready?

[zubo]

Peter,

 

I think we can do that; so now we have them not only on Section 85 but Section 127 (1).

 

We have been playing poker with them, waiting for them to take us to court, but I think I will up the ante on them.

 

MBNA and Crap One, are you ready?

 

BA

 

I'm sitting here waiting with bated breath... there's a deathly hush around, the enemy are bloodied with s77-79, s85 and s127(1) breathing heavily they suddenly realize that there are even greater destructive weapons just around the corner.

 

btw poor man from LTSB just called me, given up on asking me security questions I always decline, needs desperately to talk to me about my accounts. I asked him to write to me but he said that they didnt have that facility... I suggested that he phoned his HO and requisitioned a pen and paper, envelopes and stamps, ... he hung up on me....

 

Z

[m55dlc]

Zubo, I like that line, I might try that with 1st Credit (who appear to be the next people to try and take us to court). Phew, that would be the third lot in 6 months.

[zubo]

Zubo, I like that line, I might try that with 1st Credit (who appear to be the next people to try and take us to court). Phew, that would be the third lot in 6 months.

 

you have to have a certain humour to put up with the sheer unadulterated pile of cr@p you get from these ****.

 

Hope all is going well for you buddy....

 

Z

[InKogneeToh]

I asked him to write to me but he said that they didnt have that facility... I suggested that he phoned his HO and requisitioned a pen and paper, envelopes and stamps, ... he hung up on me....

 

Z

 

:lol::lol:

[progenic7]

Hi,

 

I'm giving it a go this week (wont say who for now, MIB) but as pointed out before, no precedent can be set in small claims, needs to go higher

 

TBH, I don't think it will get to court, if the CCP have got any sense they'll settle before that happens because the response to my S78 would look like a very bad joke (gone badly wrong, in a bad way) to the court

 

I'm taking an approach to the whole thing that I believe is very fair, should it work out I'll broadcast it

 

 

Are you sure about the small claims issue ? i thought that under the normal rules of citation in court, that if a point of law is about to be confirmed/denied or a point of law slightly altered/ammended or otherwise and that case is then recorded (as it must be under the rules) whether small,multi, fast track, mercantile or high court or other, that case is then citable as an authority in any other court in the land. However a judgement made but not recorded will still be citable although it wont carry quite the weight as another case which has been recorded.

Clearly if a ruling is made that is then subject to appeal, it will tavel onto the high court, where the case will still be recorded as an appeal.

But my point is that if a small claims judge does get to make a ruling in court then that case will then become an authority on that issue.

 

 

 

IMHO

 

johnny

[zubo]

I must admit I believed that CCJudgements could not be used as precedents...

need a legal beaver for that...

 

one of Terms legal folk? or BA or .... ???

 

Calling Cavalry and cross-posting...

 

Z

[m55dlc]

It has been mentioned here a number of times that County Court judgements cannot set a precedent, so I believe that is the consensus.

 

But I'm not a begal leaver, a regal beaver or whatever.

[InKogneeToh]

Hi

 

As far as I know, County Courts do not have jurisdiction to declare or change the law, they can only interpret and apply it, so cannot set precedent.

 

Regards, Pam

[pudsters14]

Just thought I would add my little addition on here... and sorry if I am actually hijacking but I don't mean to... this is what Mr Pudsters got from American Express... comments would be much appreciated and sorry to all who have already seen this on the CCA thread...just trying to gain loads of opinions.... would love some advice from the more experienced Caggers about this and how they think I stand with it...and I've set up two threads now...they should show on my signature!!! more to come so feel free to have a gander and comment as you wish! thanx!

[The Lantana]

I think what this boils down to is there is no obligation to follow a lower courts ruling. The bottom line is, if you are dissed by a DJ then appeal (if you reckon you have valid reasons).

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

pudster, we've traded posts already but I remain genuinely amazed that in 2004 Amex were still producing nonsense like this.

 

Bring it on!

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[The Lantana]

Banks can avoid this nonsense by taking a very simple step - operate within the law (I'll call it 'OWL')

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

PS. Obviously a nice time was had in the pub by me tonight.

[zubo]

Just thought I would add my little addition on here... and sorry if I am actually hijacking but I don't mean to... this is what Mr Pudsters got from American Express... comments would be much appreciated and sorry to all who have already seen this on the CCA thread...just trying to gain loads of opinions.... would love some advice from the more experienced Caggers about this and how they think I stand with it...and I've set up two threads now...they should show on my signature!!! more to come so feel free to have a gander and comment as you wish! thanx!

Pudster

Hopefully you will have read my approach in my Amex link - go and insist on getting your 13 page agreement.

Z

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

As far as I know, County Courts do not have jurisdiction to declare or change the law, they can only interpret and apply it, so cannot set precedent.

 

Regards, Pam

 

HI

Civil Law has developed in a similar way to the way criminal law has, through a mixture of Statutory Law made by governments, and 'precedent' which is created by earlier cases. I am not sure whether this extends dowm to county court hearings my instincts say no.Needs research

Petr

[pudsters14]

Banks can avoid this nonsense by taking a very simple step - operate within the law (I'll call it 'OWL')

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

PS. Obviously a nice time was had in the pub by me tonight.

Thanx Lantana... have tried to tip ur scales but i've got to share the wealth with others first...lol... I have tried to tip the scales for everyone that has helped me tho so don't think I'm favouritising (even if I have just made up that word!) Anyways...have written back to American Express and have read up on Zubos thread...Thanx Zubo!!! Lots of great advice, ill post in a min with my new thread for MBNA and their attempt at sending me an executed agreement,... if you don't mind cast y our eyes over what they have sent me and see what you think... it is also posted on the MBNA Properly Exectuted Agreements thread.... Any comms would be most appreciated!

[pudsters14]

Right Amex update on my thread...please have a look all...

[pudsters14]

The link is in my signature - sorry - my signature has disappeared, heres the link

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/77343-mr-pudsters14-vv-american.html#post677112

[rinkydinkydoo]

Hi , I Hope I,m Not Hijacking, I Am So Confused, The More I Read The More Confused I Get, Is This A Copy OF A CCA

Of A Credit Agreement,