Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I've read loads of old messages about what to do but feel my case is different, it's a bit of a back story so ill break it down. - Had a letter from an Italian province in July of 2020 for a speeding offence in 2019 for 575 euros, was in a hire car I used for work, no longer work for them and heard nothing from either. - Thought blimey, but went to pay it anyway, it had doubled to over 1100 euros, yeah I can't afford paying that, filled out the attached information sheet to say it was me driving but I have no money or job due to COVID (true story) and sent it back (durrrr) - Heard nothing until December of 2023, a letter from an appointed solicitor from Florence saying if I don't pay, we will chase you through the legal system with costs beared to you. - May of this year, I get a letter from CLI (Credit Limits International) basically saying they have been appointed to carry out the collection, £1475. - Stupidly, I started the 'three letter process' asking for proof etc, and they replied a few days ago with a copy of the fines I had received from Italy, they stated the debt has no terms and conditions as it relates to a fine in Italy and the debt is not subject to the Consumer Credit agreement. I translate that to "at the moment we don't own the debt and have been given authority from Italy to pursue the debt". That is where I am currently at, I would begrudge giving in and paying an obscene amount. As seen from similar threads, I know a threat of a visit is coming, followed by a threat of court action, but annoyingly it hasn't been mentioned how these cases were concluded and the threads are now locked. I've read to ignore them, but can't help but feel that because it's such a substantial amount that they will feel it's worthy of pursuing this no matter the hoops they have to jump through. Along with admitting it was me driving and opening the can of worms by contacting the DCA, it wouldn't look good for me should it ever get to a courtroom.  Has anyone with previous experience managed to 'get away with it'? Anyone know what they're capable of other than nagging me? I'm not after any moral judgment.
    • take the SD card out and put on a pc/laptop then run recuva on it in  select videos only option select specific location hit browse then select drive letter of the SD card. then next  then deep scan then go have a cup of tea..  when done dont recover the all files back to the card select a new folder on your pc/laptop        
    • hi all, i will list my curmcumstance first then list the details of the penalty charge - we are 2 diabled people being affected by the cost of living crisis and are skint etc. i am disabled with mobility issues(arthritis in knees and ankles and gout) and cant operate car pedals anymore so i let a friend up the road use my car in exchange for her driving me about. its a good arrangement as i get a 'chauffer' and she gets the use of car. the car is parked in her drive which is better as i was refused a disabled space (even on appeal) and too much congestion to park the car outside my house. my friend is vulnerable as she has suffered depression and suicidal thoughts since the loss of her mother a few years back, she is dyslexic, she is a carer for one of her sons that is disabled due to mental illness and mobility. she lives in a council house and cannot work. we went to iceland ..attracted by the 10items for £10 offer - we've never been there before. a large artic lorry was parked accross the car park blocking the view of one of the parking signs and blocking the disabled bays where the pay&display machine is. by the time she helped me out of the car and then went to see if it was pay&display then came back to me at the car she said she thinks it was pay even for disabled, so we looked for change in the car which we didnt have (she normally goes asda which dont need to pay for parking)so then we said we'd either go get change or go to asda...so then by the time it took her to help me back in and get out the car park took 15 minutes...5 minutes overstay past the 10minutes grace. the letter from excel parking came through and i sent it back giving her name as driver (before i saw on here that you shouldnt name the driver) then i appealed explaining what happened (lorry blocking etc) and even said we were being descriminated (advised by citizen advice)as we are disabled and 15minutes is not long enough for a crippled disabled man and a woman with dyslexia to read and understandd the sign and get out, then back in the car and look for change then get out the car park in 15minutes. i even explained she was a vulnerable person on anti-depressants and even sent a photo of medication and said if you need a doctors note then let me know....the appeal was rejected. i've emailed iceland over 50 times and they just wont tell excel to cancel this charge - they are ignorant and ive even asked them why they have a webpage saying 'iceland combatting the cost of living crisis' pretending to help their customers and they wont comment...they'd rather put more stress and anxiety on an already suicidal vulnerable person just to get money out of them..so their 'help' during this crisis is a lie as it wont even extend to disabled customers. she has now received 2 letters from DCBL saying she owes £170 for 5minutes of overstay. the last one is a final demand. as she cant read or write very well ive sent a recorded letter to DCBL (as advised by citizen advice) asking not to attend the property due to a vulnerable woman inside the property as it will only exasperate the situation, they have ignored it and basically said we dont care, you still owe. could anyone please advise - we are not very good with letters or these situations and are slow on the uptake.   1 The date of infringement? 28th dec 2023   2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] yes   If you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]cant do that - will have to get my son to do it when he visits   Has there been a response? yes   Please AS A PDF FILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide]cant do that - will have to get my son to do it when he visits   If you haven't appealed yet - .........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.   Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] yes   What date is on it? 15th january 2024   Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? yes   [scan up BOTHSIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'scant do that - will have to get my son to do it when he visits   3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] not on the front - maybe on the back but cannot find the letter now   4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? [it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] yes   5 Who is the parking company? excel   6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? gravesend in iceland    
    • Hi Dave, I had no updates on this PCN since my last post in July 2019.  I received no further communications from the parking company.  I changed my address in May 2022. Thanks, I will send a letter to Excel parking to inform about the change in the address. 
    • I have a BMW Advanced Car Eye 3 Pro - I think it's 50/50  In any case, none of the documents / photos sent in the SAR showed a ticket on the car. 
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4247 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

63(4) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a copy under subsection (2) need not be

given within the seven days following the making of the agreement if it is given before

or at the time when the credit-token is given to the debtor.

 

Could you explain that in simple English for me please?

 

Regards, Dave.

They have to give you a copy of the EXECUTED agreement. If they didn't sign it (i.e. execute it) how can they have complied? They signed it 3 months later. Therefore they haven't complied with section 63.4

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 650
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

63(4) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a copy under subsection (2) need not be

given within the seven days following the making of the agreement if it is given before

or at the time when the credit-token is given to the debtor.

 

Could you explain that in simple English for me please?

 

Regards, Dave.

Hi

It means they dont have to give you a copy if you recieved one between signing and getting the card or with the card

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does a printed signatuer on an agreement count as an executed agreement or does it have to be a hand signed signature. I have a Barclaycard agreement (without t& c's) with a printed one and just wondered if this was sufficient? Have read the thread and have not really got a conclusive answer.

Thanks

HI

 

IMO

The Creditor must sign or have someone sign in his place the lack of a signature would render the agreement unenforceable without the aapprovel ao a court order.But agin IMO they would have no problem in getting one in this instance.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

I am not convinced that s59 helps in this 'application v agreement' issue any way.

 

Quote:

 

59 Agreement to enter future agreement void

 

(1) An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.

 

My understanding of this section is that only the clause of such an agreement that states that you are bound to a further prospective regulated agreement is void - not the initial agreement itself!

 

Note it says that 'an agreement' is void - not 'a regulated agreement is void'.

 

A possible case might be if a customer signed a contract of purchase in a store, intending to finance the purchase by a seperate regulated credit agreement, and the contract agreement stated that, by signing that document, the customer would also be bound by any associated prospective regulated credit agreement for finance.

 

Regards, Pam

 

I dissagree the mention of agreement just means thathte current one isn't signed and therefore unexecuted and is the prospective agreement..

 

Regs

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dissagree the mention of agreement just means thathte current one isn't signed and therefore unexecuted and is the prospective agreement..

 

Regs

Peter

 

Hi Peter

 

Can you explain what you are saying here please?

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

mmmm this is

 

but ok its an application/credit agreement, but surely it still only SHOWS you applied for credit?

 

Not notification that you were succesful? or am i just being dumb?

Me Vs AA/Blair Oliver - Defaulted on CCA, Committed Criminal Offence, started chasing payment

 

Me Vs Great Universal - Wrote off the 2k balance, couldnt supply docs

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74209-me-littlewoods-catalogue.html

 

My Friend Vs Lowell Portfolio - Balance written off, all action stopped!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75075-my-friend-lowell-victory.html

 

My Friend Vs Empire Catalogue - Balance Cleared

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75713-my-friend-empire-droyds.html

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi can anyone tell me what they make of this agreement please?

 

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/trickytrishuk/ccagemoney.jpg

 

its from GE money for a store card the bit they've highlighted in blue is the PPI they reckon was ticked but this PPI only appeared on my statements around 2003 and not before this is what I cant get my head around! it was taken out in 1998 could they have added this tick at some later date?

 

any help much appreciated thanks :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you have statements before 2003 that do not show it?

 

I think they're going to argue that it is ticked, you're going to argue that the mark is in fact a strike through of that entire section, done by the person who filled out the application. They'll say 'honest mistake', you'll say 'honest mistake' and they should refund it. The angle and length, along with a small tick-like tail appears on the other right handed ticks placed on the left hand side of the application.

 

If you have the statements showing you've not been paying it prior to 2003, you should be OK.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

This document, although obviously an 'application form', does contain all of the prescribed terms (credit limit info./interest/repayment info. in the financial details section.

 

But it does not contain the required statutory statement about your rights under the CCA so is improperly executed. So even if they insist it is an agreement it is still only enforceable with an order of the court.

 

Also since the creditor (GE) is different from the supplier (Burtons) I would have thought that it should contain the CCA statement about your remedies against either for breach by the supplier (s75 CCA) and also the one about limit of liability for loss or misuse of credit token but I'm not certain about these in the store card scenario.

 

If they have only been charging for PPI since 2003 then I would ask them to explain why, if you supposedly signed up for it in 1998!?

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i would insist that it was never you that ticked that (they cant prove you did) and reinforce that by saying that PPI has only been coming out since 2003, 5 years AFTER you applied, and that with immediate effect you want those 5 years premiums back as you never ticked that box in the first place.

Me Vs AA/Blair Oliver - Defaulted on CCA, Committed Criminal Offence, started chasing payment

 

Me Vs Great Universal - Wrote off the 2k balance, couldnt supply docs

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74209-me-littlewoods-catalogue.html

 

My Friend Vs Lowell Portfolio - Balance written off, all action stopped!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75075-my-friend-lowell-victory.html

 

My Friend Vs Empire Catalogue - Balance Cleared

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75713-my-friend-empire-droyds.html

Link to post
Share on other sites

many thanks for all your replies on this much appreciated!

 

the 25th of feb and 14th march Letters they refer to was my prelim and LBA for charges and PPI back! this is the only letter I've recieved so far they still have a few days though before the Lba Time expires! Just waiting to see if i recieve anything else about the charges then it will MCOL for them :)

 

many thanks again for all the advise :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

On the question of whether interest can be charged on an account if the agreement is unenforceable, I have found a definition of enforce in definition.com as

 

–verb (used with object), -forced, -forc·ing.

1. to put or keep in force; compel obedience to: to enforce a rule; Traffic laws will be strictly enforced.

2. to obtain (payment, obedience, etc.) by force or compulsion.

3. to impose (a course of action) upon a person: The doctor enforced a strict dietary regimen.

4. to support (a demand, claim, etc.) by force: to enforce one's rights as a citizen.

5. to impress or urge (an argument, contention, etc.) forcibly; lay stress upon: He enforced his argument by adding details.

 

I read this to be wider than just to force repayments. Do we have any other definitions or thoughts that may clear this us or at least formulate a good argument.

 

We are also still unclear on the agreement vs application form argument. Has anyone had any thoughts about this yet?

Link to post
Share on other sites

We are also still unclear on the agreement vs application form argument. Has anyone had any thoughts about this yet?

 

I think one of the arguements i'm going to use when I get the inevitable where's our money letter from RBoS is that the "agreement" is "executed" nearly 3 full months after they sent the card out........

 

Any more thoughts...?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

since MBNA have finally complied with the SAR, they actually sent me a copy of the original application form i signed (i actually requested that they send the true copy of agreement), now i also had the agreement they sent me just after i signed up.

i have attached the scans in the post (cant figure out how to post the jpeg into the post, any help ?) take a look and see what you think of these two items.

which one is the most relevant ?

 

any ideas ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/75615-cca-application-agreement-copy.html

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

If you feel i have helped you then click

Here, if you feel i have not helped you then click Here, if you want to complain about this go Here, if you would like bank secrets then go Here.

 

MBNA - Case Charges+PPI+CI+LA+Damages+costs

RBS Credit Card - Case Charges+CI+LA+Costs

Barclays - Case Charges+CI+LA+Damages+costs

Halifax - Case Charges+CI+Damages+costs

Online Finance - Case Charge+CI+Damages+costs

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI

 

IMO

The Creditor must sign or have someone sign in his place the lack of a signature would render the agreement unenforceable without the aapprovel ao a court order.But agin IMO they would have no problem in getting one in this instance.

 

Peter

 

Peter

 

This (in red) would be after the event then and not a true copy of the agreement and anyway would be unlawful and probably illegal. There is some doubt as to whether a stamped signature truly complies.

 

Z

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

since MBNA have finally complied with the SAR, they actually sent me a copy of the original application form i signed (i actually requested that they send the true copy of agreement), now i also had the agreement they sent me just after i signed up.

i have attached the scans in the post (cant figure out how to post the jpeg into the post, any help ?) take a look and see what you think of these two items.

which one is the most relevant ?

 

any ideas ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/75615-cca-application-agreement-copy.html

 

Hi

 

The first document is just an application form and does not have any of the prescribed terms on so is wholly unenforceable anyway. The second document does have the prescribed terms but is not signed, is NOT a 2nd copy of your agreement that you should have received with the card, has no statements of statutory rights and remedies, no cancellation notice etc etc. So neither document is enforceable full stop!!

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

HI, do you think is a cca or just an application, i,m stupmed:-| rinkydinkydoosscan.jpg?t=1174533846RINKYDINKYDOOSCANPIC.jpg?t=1174533507

 

Hi

 

Is there any way you can enlarge the small print section and scan it the right way up? I'd like to see what it includes.

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest Battleaxe

Image1-1.jpg

 

I have enlarged mine from Capital One it is the same as posted. I posted my original agreement on this thread and it is identical.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...