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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? RBS Advantage Card


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63(4) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a copy under subsection (2) need not be

given within the seven days following the making of the agreement if it is given before

or at the time when the credit-token is given to the debtor.

 

Could you explain that in simple English for me please?

 

Regards, Dave.

They have to give you a copy of the EXECUTED agreement. If they didn't sign it (i.e. execute it) how can they have complied? They signed it 3 months later. Therefore they haven't complied with section 63.4

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63(4) In the case of a credit-token agreement, a copy under subsection (2) need not be

given within the seven days following the making of the agreement if it is given before

or at the time when the credit-token is given to the debtor.

 

Could you explain that in simple English for me please?

 

Regards, Dave.

Hi

It means they dont have to give you a copy if you recieved one between signing and getting the card or with the card

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Does a printed signatuer on an agreement count as an executed agreement or does it have to be a hand signed signature. I have a Barclaycard agreement (without t& c's) with a printed one and just wondered if this was sufficient? Have read the thread and have not really got a conclusive answer.

Thanks

HI

 

IMO

The Creditor must sign or have someone sign in his place the lack of a signature would render the agreement unenforceable without the aapprovel ao a court order.But agin IMO they would have no problem in getting one in this instance.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi

 

I am not convinced that s59 helps in this 'application v agreement' issue any way.

 

Quote:

 

59 Agreement to enter future agreement void

 

(1) An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.

 

My understanding of this section is that only the clause of such an agreement that states that you are bound to a further prospective regulated agreement is void - not the initial agreement itself!

 

Note it says that 'an agreement' is void - not 'a regulated agreement is void'.

 

A possible case might be if a customer signed a contract of purchase in a store, intending to finance the purchase by a seperate regulated credit agreement, and the contract agreement stated that, by signing that document, the customer would also be bound by any associated prospective regulated credit agreement for finance.

 

Regards, Pam

 

I dissagree the mention of agreement just means thathte current one isn't signed and therefore unexecuted and is the prospective agreement..

 

Regs

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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I dissagree the mention of agreement just means thathte current one isn't signed and therefore unexecuted and is the prospective agreement..

 

Regs

Peter

 

Hi Peter

 

Can you explain what you are saying here please?

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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mmmm this is

 

but ok its an application/credit agreement, but surely it still only SHOWS you applied for credit?

 

Not notification that you were succesful? or am i just being dumb?

Me Vs AA/Blair Oliver - Defaulted on CCA, Committed Criminal Offence, started chasing payment

 

Me Vs Great Universal - Wrote off the 2k balance, couldnt supply docs

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74209-me-littlewoods-catalogue.html

 

My Friend Vs Lowell Portfolio - Balance written off, all action stopped!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75075-my-friend-lowell-victory.html

 

My Friend Vs Empire Catalogue - Balance Cleared

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75713-my-friend-empire-droyds.html

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Hi can anyone tell me what they make of this agreement please?

 

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/trickytrishuk/ccagemoney.jpg

 

its from GE money for a store card the bit they've highlighted in blue is the PPI they reckon was ticked but this PPI only appeared on my statements around 2003 and not before this is what I cant get my head around! it was taken out in 1998 could they have added this tick at some later date?

 

any help much appreciated thanks :D

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Do you have statements before 2003 that do not show it?

 

I think they're going to argue that it is ticked, you're going to argue that the mark is in fact a strike through of that entire section, done by the person who filled out the application. They'll say 'honest mistake', you'll say 'honest mistake' and they should refund it. The angle and length, along with a small tick-like tail appears on the other right handed ticks placed on the left hand side of the application.

 

If you have the statements showing you've not been paying it prior to 2003, you should be OK.

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Hi

 

This document, although obviously an 'application form', does contain all of the prescribed terms (credit limit info./interest/repayment info. in the financial details section.

 

But it does not contain the required statutory statement about your rights under the CCA so is improperly executed. So even if they insist it is an agreement it is still only enforceable with an order of the court.

 

Also since the creditor (GE) is different from the supplier (Burtons) I would have thought that it should contain the CCA statement about your remedies against either for breach by the supplier (s75 CCA) and also the one about limit of liability for loss or misuse of credit token but I'm not certain about these in the store card scenario.

 

If they have only been charging for PPI since 2003 then I would ask them to explain why, if you supposedly signed up for it in 1998!?

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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i would insist that it was never you that ticked that (they cant prove you did) and reinforce that by saying that PPI has only been coming out since 2003, 5 years AFTER you applied, and that with immediate effect you want those 5 years premiums back as you never ticked that box in the first place.

Me Vs AA/Blair Oliver - Defaulted on CCA, Committed Criminal Offence, started chasing payment

 

Me Vs Great Universal - Wrote off the 2k balance, couldnt supply docs

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74209-me-littlewoods-catalogue.html

 

My Friend Vs Lowell Portfolio - Balance written off, all action stopped!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75075-my-friend-lowell-victory.html

 

My Friend Vs Empire Catalogue - Balance Cleared

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75713-my-friend-empire-droyds.html

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many thanks for all your replies on this much appreciated!

 

the 25th of feb and 14th march Letters they refer to was my prelim and LBA for charges and PPI back! this is the only letter I've recieved so far they still have a few days though before the Lba Time expires! Just waiting to see if i recieve anything else about the charges then it will MCOL for them :)

 

many thanks again for all the advise :D

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On the question of whether interest can be charged on an account if the agreement is unenforceable, I have found a definition of enforce in definition.com as

 

–verb (used with object), -forced, -forc·ing.

1. to put or keep in force; compel obedience to: to enforce a rule; Traffic laws will be strictly enforced.

2. to obtain (payment, obedience, etc.) by force or compulsion.

3. to impose (a course of action) upon a person: The doctor enforced a strict dietary regimen.

4. to support (a demand, claim, etc.) by force: to enforce one's rights as a citizen.

5. to impress or urge (an argument, contention, etc.) forcibly; lay stress upon: He enforced his argument by adding details.

 

I read this to be wider than just to force repayments. Do we have any other definitions or thoughts that may clear this us or at least formulate a good argument.

 

We are also still unclear on the agreement vs application form argument. Has anyone had any thoughts about this yet?

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We are also still unclear on the agreement vs application form argument. Has anyone had any thoughts about this yet?

 

I think one of the arguements i'm going to use when I get the inevitable where's our money letter from RBoS is that the "agreement" is "executed" nearly 3 full months after they sent the card out........

 

Any more thoughts...?

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Hi all,

 

since MBNA have finally complied with the SAR, they actually sent me a copy of the original application form i signed (i actually requested that they send the true copy of agreement), now i also had the agreement they sent me just after i signed up.

i have attached the scans in the post (cant figure out how to post the jpeg into the post, any help ?) take a look and see what you think of these two items.

which one is the most relevant ?

 

any ideas ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/75615-cca-application-agreement-copy.html

Dont Rush - Take Your Time - Dont always take me seriously

:p

 

If you feel i have helped you then click

Here, if you feel i have not helped you then click Here, if you want to complain about this go Here, if you would like bank secrets then go Here.

 

MBNA - Case Charges+PPI+CI+LA+Damages+costs

RBS Credit Card - Case Charges+CI+LA+Costs

Barclays - Case Charges+CI+LA+Damages+costs

Halifax - Case Charges+CI+Damages+costs

Online Finance - Case Charge+CI+Damages+costs

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HI

 

IMO

The Creditor must sign or have someone sign in his place the lack of a signature would render the agreement unenforceable without the aapprovel ao a court order.But agin IMO they would have no problem in getting one in this instance.

 

Peter

 

Peter

 

This (in red) would be after the event then and not a true copy of the agreement and anyway would be unlawful and probably illegal. There is some doubt as to whether a stamped signature truly complies.

 

Z

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Hi all,

 

since MBNA have finally complied with the SAR, they actually sent me a copy of the original application form i signed (i actually requested that they send the true copy of agreement), now i also had the agreement they sent me just after i signed up.

i have attached the scans in the post (cant figure out how to post the jpeg into the post, any help ?) take a look and see what you think of these two items.

which one is the most relevant ?

 

any ideas ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/75615-cca-application-agreement-copy.html

 

Hi

 

The first document is just an application form and does not have any of the prescribed terms on so is wholly unenforceable anyway. The second document does have the prescribed terms but is not signed, is NOT a 2nd copy of your agreement that you should have received with the card, has no statements of statutory rights and remedies, no cancellation notice etc etc. So neither document is enforceable full stop!!

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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HI, do you think is a cca or just an application, i,m stupmed:-| rinkydinkydoosscan.jpg?t=1174533846RINKYDINKYDOOSCANPIC.jpg?t=1174533507

 

Hi

 

Is there any way you can enlarge the small print section and scan it the right way up? I'd like to see what it includes.

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

Anyone seeing this who wants to help by copying it to their signature please do.

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Guest Battleaxe

Image1-1.jpg

 

I have enlarged mine from Capital One it is the same as posted. I posted my original agreement on this thread and it is identical.

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