Limited Company Claims

[1970]

Hi,

 

An extra difficult question here for all to ponder - and hopefully help me with???

 

I have a limited company which has ceased trading but is still in existance ie not liquidated.

 

My company had a factoring facility with Lloyds TSB Commercial Finance backed by a personal guarantee from me.

 

The guarantee has been called up and they now have a charging order on my home. I am paying £400 a month personally to clear off a 10k debt as well as 8% stat interest they were awarded.

 

Here's the juicy question:

 

Lloyds TSB Commercial Finance have applied unlawful charges on the account, they have unfair terms in their contract allowing them to act in the said unlawfull manner. Had I known this at the start, I wouldn't have signed a personal guarantee but was tricked in to doing so as a result of the banks concealment. As such, can I make an application to the court and have the personal judgement against me overturned? (which was only obtained on the back of my personal guarantee)

 

If I succeeded with this I assume I could have the charging order cancelled? And... have my personal money returned that I have been paying to them for the last 12 months?

 

:grin:

 

Any ideas?

 

1970.

[andrew1]

Hi 1970, welcome to the forum.

 

There are a number of issues, but on the whole I'd agree with your interpretation and your objectives seem sound based upon what you have detailed. The only point I'd make is that if you needed an overdraft for anything else with the business the liklihood would have been that you would have given the guarantee because the bank wouldn't have given the loan o/d without it. That's just the way the banks work with business. Your feelings are correct as far as I can see.

 

Are you saying it was the bank Factoring division that took the charges not the bank account holding branch or did they charge you on the account before you took the factoring? ( as so often happens).

 

Anyway, whatever, you have a case if the charges were penalties and not for 'services' and if you use the general business format for claiming then you will be successful whichever division of the bank was used. It is a law which covers any kind of contract not just bank charges so just follow the format and good luck.

[judi3]

Just an update and any advice welcome

 

xxxxxxxxWe have a guarentee with the hsbc as our company failed i have negotiated with the bank to transfer the overdraft into a consoladated loan and adviced we can pay £100 per month ,they have just rang and said my intrest would be 10.95% above intrest meaning 17%.

told them we want to pay it off and it was in both our intrest to repay but it was not an acceptable rate and required everything in writing to have it looked over ,when i said what would happen if i did not accept they said it would be written off and passed to a DCA.

 

Recieved letter today because its not a loan agreement form i cannot be sent a copy of its full terms and conditions because no loan has been agreed !!!

 

i do not want to agree on anything if i can read through the t& c

sent CCA request today so i have a two week wait and im toting up the unlawful charges on the ltd .xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

sent request for cca 26 march and informed that the company had ceased trading and requesting a strike off .no news apart from the branch manager ringing eagar for an apointment .

letter today with details of the aggrement on the account but for the business card similar to a credit card but thats all paid off .not the agreement for the overdraft and personal guarentee . telephoned today they adviced that the balance was transfered to a dca on the same day i requested the cca .we havent heard a thing from the dca yet .

i have faxed a s.10 data protection act letter today .

 

my question is it was 26 days including good fri easter mon so is it tech 24 days since my request .do i still sit on the fence till the 12 +1 calender month expires to see if the agreement is enforceable or transerable to a personal debt .

and what do i say to the dca if they ring or write in the mean time ?

 

apart from i dispute the amount .

[Bona]

We have loan which we took from our limited company when the dca came calling we wrote and told them that Nat west probally owed us more in unlawful charges then they said we owed them and if they caller wrote or rang again I would have them for harresment and to go back to nat west with my reply a few days latter I had a letter saying that they were nolonger dealing and had returned papers to nat west end of story with regard to dca.

[andrew1]

We have loan which we took from our limited company when the dca came calling we wrote and told them that Nat west probally owed us more in unlawful charges then they said we owed them and if they caller wrote or rang again I would have them for harresment and to go back to nat west with my reply a few days latter I had a letter saying that they were nolonger dealing and had returned papers to nat west end of story with regard to dca.

 

Well done Bona.

[billytoptop]

About to begin a Company claim but am a little confused.

If a bank charge takes the overdraft over the agreed limit can I claim the interest back ? If so can that be backdated six years ?

Thanks in anticipation:?:

[1970]

In regard to getting information from the bank (as you cannot send them a sar as a limited company) I called my bank yesterday and said that I have just found out that I can get tax relief on any debts I am paying personally for a company that went bust.

 

I told the bank I would be happy to increase my monthly payments if I could get tax relief but I have to make a case for the inland revenue. Thus clearing the £10k debt quicker.

 

In order to make my case I have requested a full breakdown of the debt which they (HSBC) are sending me in the post today free of charge!!

 

I'm planning to make a case for unlawful charges and thus get the judgement set aside.

 

This approach may help some of you but remember it is a unique set of circumstances.

 

1970.

[andrew1]

Not so unique I fear - thanks, thats a very useful track to follow.

[andrew1]

I have just come across and old letter I wrote to my bank which I felt has a significant bearing on bank tactics of old. This letter is dated March 2000 to a Director of Lloyds Bank and it drew as much attention as you'd expect from these money grabbing shower. It's a bit long but I am posting it to demonstrate ( and it's my thread anyway ) what many businesses must go through and are still going through with charges and cash flow highs and lows and what drove so many companies into running up substantial charges. My charges were ? mediocre by comparison to some but gave me considerable business grief and made life extremely difficult for me. It might inspire others to start claiming if they recognise anything in here: I ran an employment Agency which was expanding and therefore in order to pay an increasing temp workforce there was a strain on cashflow so O/D figures do not reflect negative profitablility: Anyway take a read and let it inspire you to claim:

 

Private & Confidential

 

Mr S Argyle

Branch Director

Lloyds TSB

Ground Floor, Threadneedle Street

39 Threadneedle Street

London EC2R 8AU xx March 2000

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Mr Argyle

 

Re: Lloyds Business account xxxxxxx

 

I am writing to you to register my considerable dissatisfaction at the manner in which your staff at 34 Moorgate branch have handled my account in recent weeks and to outline practices which I feel only somebody at your level should be made aware of.

 

My company is a growing specialist recruitment agency. Core and vital components being temporary contractors earning hourly and daily fees from contracts we establish with mainly blue chip clients. I personally have 26 years recruitment experience in Finance. Our web site explains more.

 

On the 15th February I came to see Alan xxxxxx, my manager at the time, to discuss the activity of the account and the overdraft situation which was on a tendancy to be rising. He wished to discuss the possibilities of turning the overdraft into a term loan. This he explained as being the only way forward. He was also suggesting factoring as a means of financing my debtors.

 

Prior to coming, I forwarded a cash flow forecast (copy attached) along with a forecast profit and loss. We had had a quiet run up to the new year and January and February had not picked up particularly well from Christmas but the market develops in cycles in the run up to April year ends and the winter season had been a slow one. Nevertheless, I had almost doubled my sales throughout the year.

 

Mr xxxxxxx did not refer to my figures in any particular way but appeared to have a pre-conceived idea as to what he was prepared to offer. I spent two hours of my time outlining trends and what was happening with the business, and a new service I was introducing which I have spent many months researching and developing.

 

My overdraft was standing at -£16332 on the day in question. The bank held a Directors guarantee on £15,000 and also knew the value of my assets, which are substantial.

 

I had agreed an overdraft facility of £15,000 which had consequently been reduced to £10,000 during the year without consultation but increased again when I complained it was insufficient. You will notice from my cash flow forecast that I did not envisage returning to my £15000 limit until month 4 which, when taking month one as February meant that in order to trade properly I had a requirement at least until May, thereafter the picture improved considerably.

 

I need not have bothered explaining what I was doing or have given the figures, which I might add, take a considerable amount of time for a recruitment consultant to put together, ( I am not an accountant) as he took scant notice of them. He knows that my figures are based upon real figures, not make believe, and that I keep very tight reports on daily movements on my account but it bore little relation to what he had in mind.

 

Mr xxxxxx informed me that the bank was prepared to convert £15,000 into a term loan and give me £1000 as an overdraft facility. I had no options, that was it. You can see that this put me immediately into a negative situation and gave me no room at all to manoeuvre without incurring further penalties. It was a crazy situation to leave me in but I was left with no alternative.

 

The agreement was drawn up on the 15th February, I had a £10 unauthorised borrowing fee on the 16th. On the 1st March a standing order for rent of £625 was returned costing me £27.50, and three cheques returned including a temporary contractors wages who was working at xxxx plc. On 21st February I banked £3950.21. He paid the phone bill cheque but not the temp. Following this the Financial controller of xxx plc telephoned asking what was going on and he was seriously considering the consequences of transferring the contractor to another agency as this person was vital to his team. You can see how swiftly the effect of a bounced cheque has on my workforce and clients. With no wages the contractor immediately tells the client and any other temps working with them. This situation can close me down overnight. I managed to dissuade him but I nearly lost that client and any goodwill I had.

 

I have consistently kept your managers aware that temp wages are sacred but little notice is taken as to what my business is about, the sensitivities surrounding certain payments and income sources. I never asked for an open cheque but when spending my time developing the very clients who create my income I do not expect to have it cut off by an over zealous bank manager or control freak on an ego trip, without conferring with me first.

 

The intention of my meeting with Mr xxxxx was to culture a way forward but this is not what happened at all. What actually happened was that he was setting the scene to create a situation where even more charges could be applied to my account. If he had acted like a true manager and considered the figures I presented he would have immediately realised that I was in a default situation, (as the £10 unauthorised borrowing fee on the 16th confirms). In February alone I was charged £70 unauthorised borrowing fees. Which, having paid fees to rearrange the finances as a way forward is nothing but scandalous. Throughout last year I was charged £1300 in unauthorised borrowing fees plus the premium interest rates on the amounts. This is in addition to all normal banking charges and this is not a prudent manner in which to manage a bank account.

 

In July 1997 the British Bankers Association and the Business community drew up the principles of banks and businesses working together whereby the banks did all in their power to discuss the difficulties of the business and worked with it to ensure the survival of the business. Your staff have reneged on those principles and created a situation for the benefit only of the bank to create additional fees, effectively making yourselves preferential creditors by having access to my bank account and charging fees for every little misdemeanour. If this was to be their attitude then they should have recalled the loans.

 

What I have had done to me ensures a swift failure of the business if it is repeated because no consideration is being taken of my figures, my explanations and information on the activities I am promoting. I explained in great detail the effect on our trading by the millennium fever over the bug, the new year celebrations, the waiting of staff to establish their salary increases and bonuses before deciding to move on to new jobs and the flu epidemic which took me personally out of the workplace for nearly three weeks during December and January. I explained exactly what I was doing to develop the business, I showed detailed articles that I was writing in a monthly magazine to create new business and that I was exhibiting at the Olympia 2000 exhibition. This all fell on deaf ears as Mr xxxx had his own preset agenda.

 

Whilst I respect that the bank requires protection for its lending and I am not advocating that anyone be given a blank cheque, we are not talking about mega numbers here and you do have guarantees, and I have been with the bank for three years. I am not exactly a rouge trader ready to fly off to Singapore with your money and I had banked with Lloyds for ten years previously.

 

On Friday 17th March my account was within the £1000 o/d limit and £13.80 in credit. I had to issue the monthly Inland Revenue cheque of £1375.73 which I expected to arrive on the account Thursday 23rd or Friday 24th based upon the usual time spans from the revenue. I was due a cheque from xxxxxTravel of £5055.30 on Wednesday 22nd so I had no concerns at that time the cheque from the Revenue would not be covered by available funds. I also had one cheque in the system from a temporary contractor due to arrive Tuesday or Wednesday for £355.25. On Wednesday 22nd my opening balance was - £792.04 and the cheque from xxxx Travel had not appeared in the mornings post. I checked with Lloyds customer services to see what had been presented for payment and found that both the cheques mentioned above had been presented. One was a cheque for £355.25 for the same contractor at xxxxplc. In the past Alan xxx(Manager) and I would have spoken and discussed if money was coming in. If it was expected he would hold the cheque over until the following morning and when the funds arrived would process payment of the cheque, if it didn’t he might have had to return it.

 

However, when I knew of the situation with both cheques arriving on Wednesday I faxed at 10 am. to Mr xxxxx that I had been informed the cheque for £5055.30 would be arriving on Thursday not the Wednesday as expected. At 16.10 hours – six hours later a Mr Ken xxxxxx called me to say he had returned both cheques, no warning, no telephone call to ask if money was expected (he already knew there was), nothing! He told me that from that morning, one penny over the £1000 overdraft limit and everything will be returned without reference to me the same day. So what was all this about? Why did it take so long to inform me? why was this heavy handed arrogant attitude applied, as though Alan xxxxxx was too frightened to phone me?

 

When I asked this Ken xxxxxx who he was as I had never heard of him before he said he had taken over my account. No introductions, no invitation to go and discuss the account, no interest in finding out about my business activity, he told me he was not interested in my figures, cashflows, projected P & L’s or activities of my company he was only interested in me keeping to the £1000 rigid figure – he said I was a ‘waste of managements time’ because I spoke to him twice in one day. Who the hell did he think he was? Even if he had returned the Inland Revenue cheque and paid the temp I would have been £147.29 over my £1000 limit – was that too much to bear? However, he was quite content to steal £55.00 from my account in charges.

To be honest, this is nothing but scandalous and it is not surprising that Mr Cruikshank is giving the banks a good kick in the heals.

 

I am a small business working all hours to build a company that will employ staff, make profits and generate growth for myself and my family. The bank, under the principles of the British Bankers Association 1997 should afford me the facilities to operate within the spirit of those principles without maximising every little opportunity to skin my account for fees. I am paying more than enough for the service along with high interest rates and I am surprised that a bank which sponsored the Federation of Small Businesses can show itself as being responsible for such a blatantly obvious and deliberate strategy to gain the maximum fees from a small company without any consideration for the damage it has done or is doing to the very business that the bank is deriving its income.

 

I would like your investigation into this handling of my account and I would like some explanations. I would also like you to look at the account, either increase the overdraft to a workable one or extend the size of the term loan to fit the projections I presented which is nothing short of what ought to have happened during my meeting on 15th February so that I will not be charged these extortionate excess of fees continuously.

 

I am not prepared to be treated like this. I can tell Mr Alan xxxxx was only undertaking what he was led to undertake, that was as clear as a neon light, but Mr Ken xxx, whoever he is, was downright rude and the Lloyds policy he was implementing nothing short of scandalous. I certainly have no intentions of dealing with anyone of such ignorance, manager or not.

 

Believe me, I am not a fool, I have been involved with running businesses since 1980. I have come across a wide range of managers throughout that time along with their banks ‘ initiatives’ to ensure fee generation. The support staff at Lloyds are the only reason to cheer Lloyds bank but management has capped all with this latest [problem] and I trust you will ensure that it is closely investigated and stopped. I have been used to generate maximum fees and charges with no consideration for the good or benefit to the business. As mentioned above your staff have set the scene for maximum charges and I want something done about it as the principles of the 1997 agreement decree.

 

Mr Ken xxxxx suggests I am a waste of managements time, they may be words he lives to regret using as many hours of his management time are going to be taken up with the row I will create unless this is brought to an immediate stop.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Sarah xxxxxxx

Director

 

 

 

so there you go, [causing problems] fees and charges long long ago and it was DELIBERATE - shame on you banks...

[judi3]

ANDREW

Since joining this site it has been it has turned my life and indeed mental status around and reading your letter is deja vou of many including my self . i feel like being in a help group therapy session .

i was absolutley infuriated yesturday and i refuse to be belittled for our actions when i read this article posted on the thisismoney.co.uk site and i wish i could get him in a room tell him what its like in the real world xx

 

 

As a retired Bank Manager it infuriates me to once again read about people who demand something for nothing - most of these people are on the verge of bankruptcy due to their own negligence in mismanaging their finances. Once again the great British public want someone to blame for them getting into the situation of paying charges in the first place - my advice to all these people is look in the mirror and get on with life! The sooner customers are charged for running their account on a monthly basis for the services they take for granted the sooner they will realise it doesn't happen without it costing - standing orders, direct debits, statements, ATM transactions, plastic cards, foreign transactions, cheque books and paying in books - all cost money and to date they have been free! Bring on the American banking model then you will have something to complain about !!!!

 

- Jeff, Newton Abbot

[1970]

This retarded, sorry retired bank manager has forgotten the primary reason banks exist - we deposit our money, they lend it and make a profit.

 

If the bank is profiting from my monthly salary depost then the least I should get in return is a paying in book, a plastic card and some holiday money once a year.

 

1970.

[andrew1]

Sorry folks: I've read this wrong... Jeff is the one who wrote the article not Judi - my sincere apologies Judi. I was, without too much guilt I might add because it wasn't clear, of the belief that the poster Judi actually said this so started to read his/her other posts to find out what planet he/she came from. EARTH thank god ....sorry Judi ..... take three of my rep points back !!!

 

 

Needless to say, this bank manager might not feel particularly at home on this site !

[andrew1]

Forget it! oops..

[judi3]

NatWest fights bank charge case | This is Money

[roscodog18]

Hi All,

I have had several personal claims settled.

 

I have a limited company account with Lloyds and have an ongoing claim against them. I have subbmitted an AQ with the 'New' draft proposals and quickly got an offer of all my charges but only 8% interest when my claim is with 29.8%, this is my unauthorised od rate, also they did not want to refund my £100 AQ fee and wanted to hit me with a confidentiality clause.......so I politely declined their offer.......I'll let you know what happens next......I have to say this is the furtherst I have had to go with a claim........BOS didn't file a defence but I had to get a Warrant of Execution to get my contractual interest from them ....48HRs to go and they bottled it.....I have to say I will get particular satisfaction nailing Lloyds though.....I have never come across such arrogant staff and boy to they hate it when you tell them you are taking them to Court........'perhaps you should consider moving to another bank Roscodog if you are unhappy' ..........EH ...no I think I will just be a thorn in your side for a little longer:-D :-D OH and the £50 charges since I filed at Court I'll be getting that back as well!!!! God they hate it when you know you are right.

 

Roscodog

[andrew1]

My Lloyds claim paid out half about 2 months ago as a goodwill gesture, I've written asking for the rest and waiting...

[lellypea]

Hi Andrew1/Sarah???

 

Just read your 'letter' (post 51... I think). It's almost to the word what happened to me in my thriving and growing Ltd Co in 2005 - b----rds!! A lazy, spineless, self seeking Business Manager.......the sudden transfer to someone on a phone 100 miles away (me.......'Can we drive over and meet you to discuss this?'......voice on other end 'NO' - not interested - just do as I say ...or else!!!)

 

They refused to give me a secured bridging loan whilst I released working funds of my own. The situation they engineered plunged me into a cash flow crisis where I hardly slept with stress - lost goodwill and creditworthiness with suppliers and clients alike - AND £15,000 - yes - FIFTEEN - of charges ricocheted out of my a/c in just 5 months. I survived by the skin of my teeth and by working 24/7 instead of 23/7 - if you get what I mean.

 

How's that for a brilliant NW manoevre - they wouldn't have made £15,000

out of five months bridging loan!!!!

 

As soon as my money released I read about Stephen Hone, found these sites, (moved banks) and went after them. Got my money back last October.

 

Now going after them for some of hubs troubled statute barred years and

- hey - thought I might do the comp. cont. interest too - as NW did it to him all those years - well.....it seems rude not to!!!! lol.

 

regards

 

lel

[Bona]

Same old story for me but can i get statements from them have 6 years twice for two accounts but no more and nothing for the Limited company as yet but keep trying and hoping

[andrew1]

Same old story for me but can i get statements from them have 6 years twice for two accounts but no more and nothing for the Limited company as yet but keep trying and hoping

 

Trouble with Company accounts is that you should have kept the statements yourself for accounting purposes so you can't get them via the Subject Access Request route as we can for a consumer account. Have you or your accountant got them? The banks know this and will charge you £5 a time for each statement - might be worth it if the claim is high but it's a costly business if not.

My trouble is that the accounts went to a liquidator and the overall debt was sizable once the business actually went pear-shaped and bust. Anything I could get back ought to go to creditors although perhaps someone could tell me if Limitation on creditors via liquidation might allow me to claim ( & I did have to take out consolidation loans for the o/d personally guaranteed). Mind you I blame the banks intransigence as a large contributor to the company's demise.

 

What you write is so familiar.

[andrew1]

Hi Andrew1/Sarah???

 

Just read your 'letter' (post 51... I think). It's almost to the word what happened to me in my thriving and growing Ltd Co in 2005 - b----rds!! A lazy, spineless, self seeking Business Manager.......the sudden transfer to someone on a phone 100 miles away (me.......'Can we drive over and meet you to discuss this?'......voice on other end 'NO' - not interested - just do as I say ...or else!!!)

 

They refused to give me a secured bridging loan whilst I released working funds of my own. The situation they engineered plunged me into a cash flow crisis where I hardly slept with stress - lost goodwill and creditworthiness with suppliers and clients alike - AND £15,000 - yes - FIFTEEN - of charges ricocheted out of my a/c in just 5 months. I survived by the skin of my teeth and by working 24/7 instead of 23/7 - if you get what I mean.

 

How's that for a brilliant NW manoevre - they wouldn't have made £15,000

out of five months bridging loan!!!!

 

As soon as my money released I read about Stephen Hone, found these sites, (moved banks) and went after them. Got my money back last October.

 

Now going after them for some of hubs troubled statute barred years and

- hey - thought I might do the comp. cont. interest too - as NW did it to him all those years - well.....it seems rude not to!!!! lol.

 

regards

 

lel

 

 

 

Post 59 Could have been written yesterday couldn't it - the way they are carrying on?

[photoman]

This all makes me sick to the bottom of my stomach .... !!!!

 

The simple truth is that Banks do not want to see Business' succeed.

 

A thriving business with a healthy credit balance means;

1/ They have to actually pay out interest, rather than recieve it.

2/ They cannot loan it money and make money through interest.

3/ They cannot make additional money on charges.

4/ A healthy sucesful company can acquire capital for growth from other means (investors etc) at much cheaper rates, or negotiate better rates by threatening to move it's business.

 

Their own business thrives on others debt. The more desperate the debtor the more they can make.

 

It's simply Profit, profit, profit ......... at any cost to others !!

[andrew1]

This all makes me sick to the bottom of my stomach .... !!!!

 

The simple truth is that Banks do not want to see Business' succeed.

 

A thriving business with a healthy credit balance means;

1/ They have to actually pay out interest, rather than recieve it.

2/ They cannot loan it money and make money through interest.

3/ They cannot make additional money on charges.

4/ A healthy sucesful company can acquire capital for growth from other means (investors etc) at much cheaper rates, or negotiate better rates by threatening to move it's business.

 

Their own business thrives on others debt. The more desperate the debtor the more they can make.

 

It's simply Profit, profit, profit ......... at any cost to others !!

 

Hard week was it Photoman? Try and relax over the weekend - you deserve it. I agree totally, but you can see from my letter from 2000, these buggers have been doing it and doing it and doing it, Now though, through the likes of your goodself - they are slowing down and will start to look differently at their own business plan for a change and realise what we spend our lives trying to convince them. That little quote in blue at the bottom of my sig says it all! Enjoy your weekend..

[photoman]

Hard week was it Photoman? Try and relax over the weekend - you deserve it. I agree totally, but you can see from my letter from 2000, these buggers have been doing it and doing it and doing it, Now though, through the likes of your goodself - they are slowing down and will start to look differently at their own business plan for a change and realise what we spend our lives trying to convince them. That little quote in blue at the bottom of my sig says it all! Enjoy your weekend..

 

LOL

 

No actually I've had a really very good week !!

 

It was just the other posts on the thread with lellpeas stories etc that made me realise once again the true objectives of Banks.

They also keep this reality hidden by spending a fortune in advertising trying to keep the real truth from actually dawning upon people.

[lellypea]

...... to add insult to injury the NW placed 2 'delinquent' markers on my (otherwise unblemished) credit file for 5 missed payments on 2 loans (total £1,600) in 'crisis' period. (I somehow managed to not 'blow' any others - only NW's.) Yet more damaging hurdles for any business!

 

They defaulted me (x 2) for a total of £1,600 whilst they had unlawfully removed £15,000.00 from the account!! The very Law that pressured NW into repaying me.... has the loopholes to allow the Banks power to manipulate that same Law into making me (and others) a victim (in the most damaging way twice over!!! Is the Law as ass or wot!!

 

Can I get them removed? - Can I 'ell-us-like'!!

 

12 letters involving NW, Experian, & myself have failed to achieve removal. Just sent another host of letters/info to - ICO - Financial Ombudsman &

FSA.... but who knows if they'll succeed. I have a growing suspicion all these regulatory bodies not only lack time - but also teeth!!!

 

Looks like the only 'dentures' we can utilise are those sites like this are

creating.................... Lets aim for great big frightening 'uns ...like Jaws!!

[judi3]

hi guys

still no news from hsbc or the dca do i still have the same legalities to this debt as with other cca requests . i am asking for documented proof that i am liable for the ltd company debt x