Mbna - Properly Executed Agreements

[angry cat]

Thanks corn-

Ooh, perhaps I shouldn't be named angry cat after all as I have always been a little bit like a 'dog with a bone'...rest assured that I will indeed pick away at it, right down to the marrow!

 

Love AC

 

ps I have a lovely and very big Rottweiler!

[Guest Mincemeat]

Very interesting and long read, I have a question or 2 might even be 3

 

Does both signatures have to be on the same form? to make it a Proper Executed Agreement?

As my signature is on the T&C's in the normal little box, and theirs is on a print off from an Internet application, top left with a date stamp.

Also some of the information they have supplied is incorrect, as the present address has the wrong house number on it, they say for example 456 and it should be 556......but all correspondence does go to the correct house number 556.

 

Regards

 

I've had exactly the same piece of internet output they attempt to purport to being a part of the agreement, this is rubbish, absolute rubbish! Mine was dated a week before it was approved by MBNA and is obviously PRE-CONTRACTUAL and does not constitute their signing the agreement. It sounds very much like they havent complied with the act with respect to the part which states they have to send a copy of the executed agreement with the original card OR the replacement credit tokens.

 

Send them a letter back stating you require a copy of the EXECUTED agreement and this rubber stamped effort does not comply with the CCA 1974

[ukiainib]

I see what you mean Mincemeat, as the date on the Internet application is 06-05-03 and I signed on the 24-05-03, which is the amount of time it took them to send out the application for me to sign.

 

So this in it self just escalates the same question, does both signatures have to be on the same form.

 

Also, does this mean the so called contract is NULL?

[pudsters14]

Hiya Guys, have been on the CCA thread and just thought i'd pop on here to ask for all your help. Espesh as you are knowledgeable of the wrath that is MBNA....

 

My new thread is called Mitzbag vs MBNA and this is for a friend of mine. Would really appreaciate some expertise and advice to pass onto him, as I don't quite feel that I'm the oracle yet but I'm getting there.

 

There's a bit of an update about me, but I really need to update my own threads!

 

Anyways, please check it out and let me know what you think, another really bad excuse for a credit agreement or is it just me?!?!?! LOL

 

Thanks

 

Pudsters14

[pudsters14]

ooohh sorry here's the link!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/95689-mitzbag-mbna.html#post883866

[BLADES65]

Hi, this has already been posted on the main CCA thread but seeing as it relates to MBNA here it is again:

 

Well this is what they sent me after my CCA request. Single sided photocopy.

 

Can't make out anything apart from handwritten details, strangely my name and address is typed out and not handwritten.

 

[Magnum]

Hi

 

Need a little help have intiated court claim against Abbey 01-06-07 (Magnum vs Abbey) for charges CI & non compliance of sixth principal Datat Protection. Decided to take on MBNA for my husband. Original SAR sent January 07 received list of charges no running totals and return of Postal Order. Having read more info decided to write back for executed agreement and T & C at time of entering agreement. Copies of statement of accounts 15-03-07.

 

Have received details re: charges & interest opening and closing balances no running totals and no purchasing or usage info. Is this correct as I requested copies of statement of accounts & complete list of transactions and charges relating to banking history specifically.. Info is in 2 different formats.

There is also details of call dates and credit score application details.

 

They have sent a copy of his priority request (application) form and no T & C at all.

 

Do I have to now send a CCA 1974 request with £1 or can I follow this through via SAR already sent.

 

Account was closed in 2004 and debt sold to Link have been repaying them eversince upto 2 months ago.

 

Have read so much am confusing myself now. Any help greatly appreciated.

[Guest Mincemeat]

I see what you mean Mincemeat, as the date on the Internet application is 06-05-03 and I signed on the 24-05-03, which is the amount of time it took them to send out the application for me to sign.

 

So this in it self just escalates the same question, does both signatures have to be on the same form.

 

Also, does this mean the so called contract is NULL?

 

In this instance, the signature on the internet output is pre-contractual and is not part of the agreement. MBNA will argue that it is, but what you need to get out of them is the response from a SAR. In my case they attempted to argue that the rubber stamped signature on the internet dump form constituted them signing the agreement. Unfortunately this is fatally flawed. Firstly, (and I am going to touch on this lightly) the stamp they use is insufficient as a signature as it is for a person and not MBNA. If it had the words 'on behalf of MBNA' or actually stated MBNA it would be OK. In the eyes of the law only the person who owns this signature can use this stamp. Any counter arguments on this greatly appreciated, but believe me, I've got enough gumph to refute it. Also, the date stamp denotes when the information was entered onto their system. You need to get the SAR response and check when the card was authorised. In my case the authorisation didn't happen until a significant number of days later and therefore their arguement is worthless. Yes, for the timescale of your agreement, the signatures not only have to be part of the same document (something they can never claim) but since 2003 they have to appear on the same page.

 

The whole dump signing thing is just spin on their side attempting to save themselves from wholesale losses potentially reaching hundreds of millions of pounds.

[Guest Mincemeat]

Hi

 

Need a little help have intiated court claim against Abbey 01-06-07 (Magnum vs Abbey) for charges CI & non compliance of sixth principal Datat Protection. Decided to take on MBNA for my husband. Original S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent January 07 received list of charges no running totals and return of Postal Order. Having read more info decided to write back for executed agreement and T & C at time of entering agreement. Copies of statement of accounts 15-03-07.

 

Have received details re: charges & interest opening and closing balances no running totals and no purchasing or usage info. Is this correct as I requested copies of statement of accounts & complete list of transactions and charges relating to banking history specifically.. Info is in 2 different formats.

There is also details of call dates and credit score application details.

 

They have sent a copy of his priority request (application) form and no T & C at all.

 

Do I have to now send a CCA 1974 request with £1 or can I follow this through via SAR already sent.

 

Account was closed in 2004 and debt sold to Link have been repaying them eversince upto 2 months ago.

 

Have read so much am confusing myself now. Any help greatly appreciated.

 

They send your £10.00 back as a stalling tactic. Hang fast and send them a letter stating that you are still waiting for your SAR response. Did they send you a form stating you needed to send in more ID to satisfy your SAR? I would suggest you send off your SAR again, stating in no uncertain terms that this is a SAR under the DPA (see templates - add something along the lines of you originally sent this on date X and they received it on date Y etc). If you haven't already sent the s78 CCA 1974 request, send it. It is this mechanism that allows you to suspend payment. Any other route is not actually lawful and they will have the upper hand. Have a dig through the templates for the letters you need and post your modified versions on your thread for someone to have a look at.

[Guest Mincemeat]

Also, does this mean the so called contract is NULL?

 

No it doesn't, it means it is unexecuted. What it does mean though, is that they could not have complied with s63.2 (or 62.3:) ) of the CCA 1974 and of course will have not been able to comply with s85 either (i.e. a copy of an executed agreement, how can they produce a copy of an executed agreement when the agreement they are attempting to copy is not executed?).

 

If they went to court, they may get it enforced, but their 'agreements' have already been laughted out of court on two occasions I am aware of.

[Magnum]

Hi Mincemeat

 

Thanks for reply have now sent 2 SAR requests sent Id with 1st request so they did not ask for further id. Do I still need to send another SAR. I will send off s78 CCA request today should I adapt to include informtion not received re: statements or is this where the DPA follow comes in. Cheers

[redsue]

If they went to court, they may get it enforced, but their 'agreements' have already been laughted out of court on two occasions I am aware of.

 

mincemeat can you fill us in on the details? PM if you prefer - I've 3 CCA requests to these clowns on the go at the moment - non of them correctly fulfilled.

[Guest Mincemeat]

Give me some time to speak to the person involved to see if they've posted on here and I'll post a link to the thread, they may have posted it on a different place

[pudsters14]

Hiya guys, not having much luck on my thread (link on post 431), can anyone please give me an opinion on this....

[pudsters14]

And this...

[pudsters14]

This is what my friend got back from MBNA when he CCA's them. Just wanted some expertise and advice to pass onto him, will post the link to my thread 4 you

 

Thanks

 

Pudsters14 x x x

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/95689-mitzbag-mbna.html#post883866

[redsue]

whoops - ignore me

[pudsters14]

It's my friend's, I have sent mine off already to MBNA (i think we have spoken before!) Mine are slightly different in that they have a bit more info attached to the top, but mine are still only app forms. Just want a load of advice to pass onto him so that he can make his own decision of what to do next. He has tried to join but has an aol acct so having probs.

 

It is a joke what they have sent him, i'm not surprised tho! lol

 

Pudsters14

x x x x x

[Perseus]

Just a quick observation...

If the so called agreement on the previous page was dated 04-04-01, why would the reverse with some prescribed terms of the same agreement, have a print date of August 01?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Guest Mincemeat]

Pers, look above that and you'll see 12/00. That is even stranger!

[redsue]

puds, mincemeat and Perseus

hope I can enlightened you all - I know what these numbers mean - if you want to PM me I can let you know how I know but trust me I just know.

 

LA - refers to the which MBNA department that would be paying internally for the job to be produced (whose budget)

7421-2 refers to the internal job number

15.9% refers to the percentage rates in the table on point 7

Aug01 - is the date these t&cs were produced (ie created & printed)

N - refers to Non-affinity card (ie branded MBNA) A - would refer to Affinity cards

the T&Cs 12/00 - D is the reference given internally to that particular set of t&cs and they would have been used on other app forms/t&cs

 

So you do indeed have them bang to rights - how can you have signed up to t&cs produced in Aug 01 when you signed for them in April 01 - dodgy - I'd take it up with MBNA and especially the Information Commissioner.

Tell MBNA you want your t&cs not some they've just dug out of a dusty old draw :o

[pudsters14]

OMG, didn't even notice that.

 

How can these T+Cs be original then if they didn't exist when he signed?

 

I know how you know Redsue, we have spoken before

 

Should I reword my second letter then or save this for a bit longer?

 

Thanks

 

Pudsters14

x x x x x x

[redsue]

hi pudsters, yes of course we have

They just seem to be digging themselves deeper and deeper - I'd send them the letter and reword it taking this into account giving them one more opportunity to send the correct

Also tell them you are complaining to the Information Commissioner and informing the OFT (and do so) about supplying wrong information - they sent my dad the details of someone else!

IDIOTS.

[Guest Mincemeat]

Faire attention mes amis.

 

Redsue, read the PM and look again at the scans.

[pudsters14]

Righto, i'll change the letter...plus I'm going to check mine! Thanx again!

 

Will keep you updated!

 

Pudsters14

x x x x x x