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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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NickvsNatwest


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Is there anything that can go wrong at this stage, can they appeal

 

Hi Nick. Only just seen your thread.

Yes Reading County Court have been good havent they ?

Threw out all 3 of my claims as an abuse.

They came through in the end, but were bloody useless up untill then, at least i thought so.

Maybe they threw out my claims to cover up there own mistakes. Who cares.

Anyway,i have 2 CCJs through Reading, entered against Barclays, and the answer to your question is, Yes, then can appeal to have a judgement "set aside" and back to a hearing, and possibly back to a stay, IF you try to enforce payment within 28 days of judgement.

After that, they need to have a very good reason to appeal which, the lady at court told me today, would not be granted.

I am simply sitting on my judgements (entered 24 July) untill 21 Aug, when i can send in the big boys..

Have a read of this, and good luck.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/99563-got-judgment-how-get.html

I Wish you everything you wish yourself.

 

NatWest Claimed £1,639. Accepted £1,344.

Natwest Paid me again as GOGW £1,656. Yes they can have it back if they say please.

Barclays 1 Claimed £1,260. Won by default. Paid in full

Barclays 2 Claimed £2,378. Won by default. Paid in full

Birmingham Midshires. Claimed £2,122. Accepted £2,075.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Letter from Cobbetts today, NatWest have written to the court to apply for a stay. They have attached a copy of a 3 page letter sent to the court, outlying the background the OFT test case etc.

 

I geuss i now need to respond to this, by writing to the court and asking the judge to dismiss this. I hope that due to the stage the claim had got to - judgement by default, that the judge will overturn the stay.

 

The Judgement letter i recieved from the court(N225A), i filled in the reverse side of the form detailing the amount i wanted to be paid and the interest rate and sent it back. I hope this was the right thing to do, will this be seen as enforcing the claim??

 

thanks,

Nick

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  • 2 weeks later...

Recieved a letter from the court today, i have a hearing on the 5th November for the defendants application for the judgement to be set aside. 30 mins duration in my local court - Reading. I dont know what to do now, my offer of 50% total costs runs out in a month. Does anyone know what chance i have?

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Can you post up the application please - any witness statement or part C statement. If they made it without you being sent a copy then ask the court for one.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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To be perfectly honest, I think they're being rather cheeky! They've never filed any kind of defence in any case to date - therefore, stating that they have a good chance of defending your claim is complete and utter tosh!

 

I'm also stunned that they didn't receive the court's order. Did they receive it or did they not actually look at it? :rolleyes:

 

I'll flag this up for you Nick:)

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Here is the application for stay. Hope its ok in pdf format!

 

Part B.8 states that they did not recieve the order, i geuss this is possible?

 

Nick

Possible, but unlikely. Did you ever ring Cobbetts or otherwise communicate with them regarding the order?

 

This is a tricky one. I think you might be advised to take the offer to be honest. If they're claiming not to have received the order then the chances are they will get the set-aside. Having said that its a court which clearly recognises Natwests abuse of process, so you stand a reasonable chance I suppose if you opposed the application and made a big thing of their notorious conduct.

 

Also, at the hearing they will inevitably bring up the fact that they have already offered you the full amount in charges, meaning you'll have carried on solely for interest which may not endear you to the judge. Particularly if its contractual interest for which there is no valid contractual basis.

 

How about making a counter offer of charges + 8%?

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

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thanks for looking this over guys. I am really in two minds over this. I think if they would give me charges+court costs +8% i would go for it.

 

Whats the best thing to do, repsond to their offer in writing or just phone the right person up and talk it through? I know i read a thread somewhere where they just phoned up the right guy....

 

no i did not communicate with cobbets over the order. Damn it, i did everything else by the book!

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I'd be inclined to do everything in writing Nick. It's much better to have proof of your negotiations with Cobbetts and the only way to obtain the proof is to hve everything in writing.

 

Do as GaryH suggests (counter offer of charges + 8% + court fees) - and send it first class recorded delivery. At the very least, don't settle for anything less than a full refund of charges + court fees. :)

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Well things have just got a little strange. Thanks to all who have replied so far, you have been fantastic.

 

Just to recap:

 

1) Statements recieved.

2) Prelim written - 14 days no reply

3) LBA sent. Over 14 days now and no replies.

4) N1 Filed.

5) Charges ONLY offer recieved, same day as N1 filed - Rejected

5) Defence Filed by NatWest

6) AQ Recieved

7) AQ ready to send

8) AQ sent

9) Defence struck out

10) Order served to obtain a suitable defence. No defence made. Judgement by default

10) recieved letter from NatWest stating offer still open for 2 months

11) Judgement entered

12) Cobbetts state they never the order in part 10, so applied to set aside the Judgement.

14) Hearing in october in Reading court for the stay order

 

Then, yesterday i recieved a letter saying this:

 

We refer to our telephone conversation on 05/09/07, in which you confirmed that our client has sent you a cheque in full and final settlement of your claim.

 

As a matter of courtesy, we would ask that you now write to the court and discontinue proceedings in this matter. We have attached 2 copies of the Notice of Discontinuance.

 

Well, unless i have a split personality or have been impersonated by someone, i can honestly say i have not spoken with anyone about this. What is going on, have cobbets made a mistake? I cant believe this is a tactic to force me to discontinue, as surely this practice would be highly illegal. I guess i need to write back to cobbets explaining the situation.

 

Collating all the steps has made me pose the following question. If the defence was struck out, and now Cobbets and Natwest are claiming that they never reciveived an order for a fully pleaded defence, that still means they did not at any time respond with a fully pleaded claim, order received or not. So they knew that the defence was struck out, but they still did nothing. And now this from Cobbetts about the full offer sent by cheque, it all seems a bit strange.

 

Help!!

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  • 1 month later...

Guys,

 

i am thinking of sending this off to Cobbetts. I just think i need to do something to show willing:

 

 

Ref: xxxxxxxx

Client: National Westminster Bank PLC

Claim no: xxxxxx

Regarding your recent correspondence dated 05/09/07 which relates to a telephone conversation which supposedly took place on 05/09/07 between myself and Cobbett’s. I must confirm that no such telephone conversation ever took place. In fact I wrote to Natwest on the x x to state that their offer was rejected. I can only assume that there has been an administrative mistake.

My reason for rejection is due to the fact that the offer was for the bank charges only. My claim was for the return of the charges plus interest. These charges have been unlawfully taken from me over a period of 6 yrs. I have calculated the interest amounts for each and every charge in the attached schedule. This has been submitted to Natwest and to the Court to support my claim.

It is viewed that the court case is a last resort. If Natwest are willing to repay the full charges plus interest then the claim shall be discontinued. Failing this, I will appear to defend against the approval of a stay on the 5th November .

 

 

what do you think?

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Guys,

 

i am thinking of sending this off to Cobbetts. I just think i need to do something to show willing:

 

 

Ref: xxxxxxxx

 

Client: National Westminster Bank PLC

Claim no: xxxxxx

 

Regarding your recent correspondence dated 05/09/07 which relates to a telephone conversation which supposedly took place on 05/09/07 between myself and Cobbett’s. I must advise that no such telephone conversation ever took place. In fact, I wrote to NatWest on the x x to state that their offer was rejected. I can only assume that there has been an administrative mistake.

 

My reason for rejection is due to the fact that the offer was for the bank charges only. My claim was for the return of the charges plus interest. These charges have been unlawfully taken from me over a period of 6 yrs. I have calculated the interest amounts for each and every charge in the attached schedule. This has been submitted to Natwest and to the Court to support my claim.

 

It is viewed that the court case is a last resort. If Natwest are willing to repay the full charges plus interest then the claim shall be discontinued. Failing this, I will appear to defend against the approval of a stay on the 5th November .

 

 

what do you think?

 

Sounds good to me, (hello BTW. not beenon for ageeesssss). Even it it does go to court, surly the DJ would look at the fact they have not stuck to the courts deadlines, and rule in your favour? IMO, follow through....

If this post has helped you, please hit the scales under my name. Thanks!!!!

 

"I would dig a thousend holes, to lay next to you. I would dig a thousend more, if I needed to"

 

www.incognito-photography.com

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It looks good Nick. I think at this moment in time though, I'd be inclined to offer them two options; what you've stated in your draft letter (charges+interest - although I'm assuming you'll want court fees back also?) or charges+court fees. It gives them another option to take if they're not willing to pay the interest. And with the current climate, they're paying very little to be honest.

 

But it's worth a shot to give them the above two options. x :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all,

 

just got back from Reading court for a judgement set aside hearing, here is a brief outline fo what happened:

 

The Judge starts off saying he was a bit confused as to what the claimant wants from the hearing, as it appears i am opposing a 'stay', when in fact the defendant is applying for a set aside. I kind of thought they were the same thing, so its bad prep on my part. I just said yes, i am opposing the judgement set aside and he seemed to be happy and moved on.

He preceeded to pick apart Natwest's defence and basically said he thought such a large organisation could do better! He went through a bit of the history and basically got an overview of the case. The bottom line is that Natwest are defending against a penalty, but then go onto say that they only charge a 'service', so in fact their defence's contradictory. The judge gave Natwest 14 more days (19th November) to come up with a proper defence. I raised my own issues with this, saying about the bad conduct throughout the case and asked the Judge how many chances can a defendant be given? He said he was prepared to give them one more chance. If they fail then i get the money plus all costs, if not then it is very likely they will get a set aside of the judgement. He said if this happens its up to me to prove my case is outside of the OFT test cases scope. I raised again how i believe that as my case was started last year when penalties were still penalties and had not been redrafted as services like they have this year, then i have a valid case. But he would not budge so Natwest get 14 days to rewrite their defence. I am a bit annoyed at this, but overall the Judge was very sympathetic to cases like ours and he gave the bank a bit of a hammering at times!

 

His main point is that he does not want me to get into a worse financial position with some one as big as Natwest who have strong litigation. Not sure what he meant by this, surely if i lose i just lose my costs? What if i get my money but the banks win the OFT case?

 

It was all very informal and good natured discussion on all sides. It really was not worth the anxiety i was feeling before i went in, its really nothing to worry about.

 

Can anyone give me any feedback on this?

 

cheers,

Nick

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I'm sorry to hear about what happened Nick, given how 'great' Cobbetts' defences are, I can almost imagine what they put forward on your claim. However, I'm not sure what they can possibly come up with in the next 14 days - they've never truly defended any claim up to now.

 

On the subject of costs, there's a very slight possibility that if you lose you'd be liable for their costs in addition to your own. But I must stress that this is very slight - I read something recently (I'll try to find it and post back with it) that stated it would be an unrealistic situation for this to happen.

 

Did the original defence you received contain anything out of the ordinary that you haven't seen on other threads? :confused:

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Hedgey,

 

no the defence was standard as i can make out. I recieved this from the court the other day (attached).

I am really not sure what this means.

 

1) Why is Norwhich Union being quoted?

 

2) A solicito turned up for tha bank, is that not the defendant.

 

Have they sent me the wrong case breakdown?

 

Nick

bank.jpg

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Sorry Nick, I can't read it. Any chance of re-sizing?

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Nick, I've just had a look at the attachment and I'd advise you to take it into the court offices and ask for an explanation. Looks to me as though they've sent you somebody else's directions - therefore, they may have sent your directions to the other person (if you get my drift!) :rolleyes:

 

Take it into the court asap and hopefully they'll be able to give you the correct directions. Post back once you have further details from them though - I'm intrigued to see what they say! x ;)

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  • 1 month later...

Totally fed up now.

 

I phoned the court and they informed me that they were the wrong directions and to send them back, which i did. After about a month (mid december) i phoned the court again as I had heard nothing from them. They said that there was something being sent out.

 

So i recieve a letter saying that Natwest have been granted a hearing for an objection in Feb. I mean, this is just crazy. They have still, until this day, not submitted a valid defence and now they get a hearing for an objection? How can you object if you cannot defend?

 

So i have outlined my views in a polite letter to the judge.

 

They have had their 1st defence struck out, did not respond to it being struck out, were given 14 days from the hearing we had (wrong directions sent and never recieved right ones) and have still not, after months, submitted a defence. How long can this go on??

 

i am baffled as to what to do. Seems they can just do what they like : (

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