council sold my house!!

[charlie1963]

I recently found out that council sold my house to my ex. I was the original tenant and am not sure whether he even was on the lease, which I still have. I left when he became violent and the council didn't want to know. I did write to the council in 2005 to ask what criterion had to be met for purchase of the house and they said that he would have to either pay me out or get a signature from me relinquishing all rights to the property. Do I have grounds to sue the council? charlie

[MrShed]

When did you leave? What type of tenancy agreement have you signed? Who is(was) paying rent on the property?

[charlie1963]

Hi, thanks for answering. It is a 'Secure Tenancy Agreement. I left early 98. I was responsible for the rent until then and the letter I received from the council in 05 does state that the non purchasing tenant has to agree to the sale whether I live there or not. Am I still able to sue? Cheers, Charlie.

[MrShed]

Sorry, just two more questions. When did you move in? And I think the EXACT wording of the letter from the council is important - could you post that please?

[claire58]

When you moved out of the house did you sign a Notice to Quit? If not, you are still the tenant at that property, and in which case they can't sell it. If you did then your ex should've signed a new tenancy agreement and will have used his power of rtb under that.

 

If they signed up for a new tenancy then they should've got you to quit the old one, however, doesn't always happen

[MrShed]

No need to sign a NTQ to end a tenancy claire...

[claire58]

Are you talking implied surrendor then? Or do you mean a letter giving 4 weeks notice to quit it?

[MrShed]

I am not saying the tenancy has ended as such, but to end the tenancy there isn't a need to sign the NTQ. The council could have received an order of possession from the courts, or it could be argued that the tenancy was ended mutually. It does not appear that the former has occurred, I suspect in any court case the council would argue the latter - I am trying to get a full picture in order to see how justified such an argument would be.

[claire58]

Charlie you need to check your original tenancy agreement to see if says you were both tenants.

 

Also, did you sign any other paperwork that could've assigned the property to your ex?

[charlie1963]

Hi, no I signed nothing at all when I left. My ex was about to remarry a few years later and give me back the house. That went wrong and he stayed. Up until recently the kids will vouch that the council magazine was delivered to that address in my name only. I did ask the council to send me a copy of the lease but they said they would only send it to the council house address and not to my own new address.

Yes of course you can have a copy, I can either email one or if you let me have an address, I'll happily post one to you.

Charlie

[charlie1963]

I forgot to add on that I signed the lease september 92 and i left around march 98. The original tenency agreement, which I have says that I was the only tenant. would it have been possible to have had him added on. I know he nagged incessantly about it but I just can't remember whether he actually signed anything.

[MrShed]

Did you hand in any keys on leaving the property? Or did you inform the council that you had left the property(I am assuming you did) in writing or by phone?

[charlie1963]

No I didn't hand in the keys but he did change the locks within days. I didn't inform the housing dept either but did let the local police know that I was safe and well.

[claire58]

You could ask for a copy of your file to see what paperwork has been signed.

 

The Council are not allowed to add a second tenant to an existing secure tenancy agreement, and if they have done that they would have created a new secure joint tenancy with both of you - from experience I do know that Councils have made this mistake in the past.

 

I'm not legally trained so I don't want to comment out of turn. If in doubt about it you could contact a solicitor for a free phone consultation or one of the free solicitor service.

 

This is a grey bit, so someone more qualified than me might want to comment. As you informed the Council you had moved out they could have taken this as you implying you didn't want the tenancy. Also, by them accepting payment from your ex they could be seen to have created a tenancy with him - the difficulty here is whether they can say you abadoned your tenancy and if you claim you had an intention to return then they can't argue that, but don't know who it is down to prove that.

 

Also, when the RTB was put in by your ex he must have been a secure tenant for them to allow him to buy it. Usually files are checked for this so not sure where they got the information from, I would request a copy of your file.

 

By the way, when did he buy the property, was this before or after you told them you'd moved out?

 

Hope this helps and doesn't waffle too much.

[MrShed]

The problem is that by vacating the property and ceasing rent payments, the council could well argue, perhaps validly, that you had implicitly terminated your tenancy. Whilst I do not neccessarily agree with it, from a legal point of view they would probably be correct - I think it would be difficult for a court to side with you stating you are still a tenant, when you have not been resident in the property, nor paid rent, for 7 years. However - if the council have recognised you as a tenant in the letter they sent, this would be a different matter. However, this would have to be an EXPLICIT reference IMO. This is not a simple situation, and if you are considering taking it further I must advise that you consult with a specialist.

[claire58]

I have to say I agree with you Mr Shed that this is a difficult one. I

 

would still request a copy of your file and if they refuse to send it to a different address (which I can't see any reason for). Advise them you will collect it and take ID and a copy of your tenancy agreement.

[charlie1963]

Thanks, I'll get in touch with them in the morning. As far as I'm aware they never even knew I was not there. They were still sending the letters to me and I have never had any other form of communication from them. He bought the place within the last 18 months.

[MrShed]

In which case you must have had a joint tenancy? Otherwise they would be chasing you for rent.

[charlie1963]

The letter I recieved was a reply to one from me and was answered by me with a request to inform me if he ever tried to buy the council house. This was ignored!

[claire58]

Depends if he ever went behind with the rent and he could've acted on your behalf to negotiate repayment agreements - which they could've failed to check he had authorisation.

 

Once you get your file you need to check if there are any reference to you leaving and any signing of new paperwork.

 

They must have based is application to buy based on some paperwork. If not, I don't understand how he's bought it unless it was fraudulently.

 

If it was a joint tenancy then you would still have had to sign to agree to him buying it - which could tie in with what you said the letter said about buying it.

[charlie1963]

He wouldn't move out, at the time the police were unable to do anything because it was classed as a domestic and he paid the rent at times from the start of the tenancy so he would just carry on after I left. What I can't understand is that if he did join the tenancy then how comes I havent got any other paperwork than the original tenancy agreement?

[charlie1963]

I've just requested the file by email from the woman at the council who sent the email telling me I would have to sign an agreement. I'll keep you posted on any answer! It may well have been fraudulent as he bought it after he got married. If they thought it was me then it should be interesting!

[claire58]

Not prying but were you married and got divorced or just co-habitated? If you were married then there should be something in your divorce agreement about property.

[charlie1963]

No we were never married, that's why the tenancy was in my name.

[Hunger]

Just a quick one,

My Ex and I took a council property, the day my wife went into labour with our first child. I hurridley went to council offices to pick up the keys signed tenancy agreement and went to join wife in hospital.

12 yaers late my wife buggered of and applied for another council house in another area (same council though). I was served with notice to quite as the house was to big for a man on his tod. I used my right to buy which was rejected as a notice to quit had been served.

I went all the way, the council (LEEDS SHITY) took me to county court to have me evicted. I fortunatley at the last minute, just before going before the judge, noticed on the tennancy agreement that I was the only signatory. Judge ordered in my favour. and also compensated me for the loss of equity in the 12 months from being denied my righ to buy and arriving at court to be evicted.

 

My home was valued at 48k I was awarded 20k in compensation, this was eight years ago. The house in now worth in excess of 220k.

 

So it pays to go all the way.