MBNA phoned my neighbours

[The Lantana]

Greetings my dear friends. I have been lurking around this site for some time and I have found it both useful and informative. Today I wish to share my story as it develops....

 

I have an MBNA credit card (Alliance and leicester). Due to unemployment I have been unable to meet the minimum payments. I phoned and explained this to MBNA. Despite this they telephoned repeatedly for payment and now I refuse / screen calls from them.

 

Last week my next door neighbour (who I hardly know) came to my door. He explained he had had a call from "Kathleen" from MBNA and she was wondering if he knew of me. He said he did and she went on to explain they were having trouble contacting me and could he ask me to contact them, and she gave him a number. She went on to say "He'll know what it's about". He gave me a note he had written with Kathleen's details.

 

Needless to say I was mortified. I reflected on this overnight and the next day contacted consumer direct who referred me to the Financial Ombudsman. The Ombudsman tells me they think MBNA breached Data Protection legislation but weren't so sure that it could be classed as harassment. They have written to MBNA inviting MBNA to contact me about my complaint. I now await the their response.

 

I'm not really sure this deals adequately with the humiliation I felt in front of my neighbour and I remain in some degree of shock, quite frankly. So today I phoned the OFT. Their position was that they would 'welcome' a complaint from me, they've had a number of these already and they could consider enforcement action. They could not undertake to act specifically on my complaint though, only on the broad thrust of MBNA phoning neighbours.

 

Any comments would be appreciated, I'm particularly keen to hear from anyone else in a similar position with MBNA.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[rosierose]

Hi Lantana

 

I have had this treatment from the nice people at MBNA too.

 

IMO this is behaviour designed to humiliate and as such is a breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and the OFT guidance on debt collection.

 

The FOS should be aware of this - if they aren't, why not point it out to them.

 

I believe Consumer Direct should have forwarded this matter to Trading Standards, who may take action on your behalf to get some kind of civil remedy and perhaps take some kind of enforcement action - contact them directly if CD refuse.

 

I would also contact the OFT. Such behaviour should not go unreported. The more of us report the underhanded action of these companies the sooner it will be stopped.

 

In the menatime I would ask MBNA for a copy of your agreement under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Have a look in the Debt Action Group templates.

 

And have a read of some of the troubles others here have had with MBNA and theirs minions and how we have dealt with them - there's plenty of good advice here.

 

Good Luck

 

Kind Regards

 

Rosie

[The Lantana]

Thanks for your input Rosie. It's comforting to know that I'm not the only one battling MBNA, but sad that it's necessary.

 

I'm sending my CCA request today. As I've already contacted the FOS, I'll wait to hear from MBNA's FOS complaints handler before taking further action via TS or OFT.

 

I'll keep this group informed.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[bathgatebuyer]

MBNA certainly called me about the people that used to live downstairs from me. There was certainly no chance whatsoever of me going to speak to them as the guy was a headcase who - we discovered after a did a runner - was frequently off his head on butane gas! The thoughts of going to his door and saying, "Ummmm, I got a message from MBNA......um, can you call them.........." was not one which fills me with pleasure!

[gemspan]

I was constantly harrassed by MBNA (A&L credit card). I had an illness which affected my business which in turn affected my income. They phoned me constantly, one guy threatened to send somebody round in half an hour!!!! If I put the phone down they would phone me constantly - one time for more than half an hour!!! I have since discovered that I have more than £1000 of charges on an account of £2500 and they cannot produce the credit agreement only the application form. I have sent off a CCA letter to them and they have 10 days within which to comply.

 

These people sent me postcards, letters etc., I phoned up customer services and told them to remove my phone number from their database.

 

This seems normal practice with MBNA. Send them a CCA letter and get your back statements. It could be that the debt they are chasing is not enforceable. This is absolutely appalling behaviour but I'm afraid it happens and the sooner its stamped out the better.

 

Kind regards

Gemspan

[The Lantana]

Well they've had the CCA request today (signed for) so it's just a matter of waiting.

 

I've had a letter last week from FOS saying if I didn't hear from MBNA in 'a few days' I might like to chase them up myself. They've given me a name at MBNA, but I wonder if the person really exists. I'm giving them another week on that because the more I read this magnificent site the more I understand the full impact of the options available to me. Quite frankly, in the case of Bank of America / MBNA, their credit licence will be the least of their worries.

 

I will continue to keep you all informed. Thanks again to all for your support.

 

Regards

 

 

 

Lantana

[The Phantom]

Sorry to come in so late on this, but one thing really troubles me: how does MBNA get the telephone numbers of neighbours ?? How do they know who lives next to you ?

[bathgatebuyer]

They would most likely use the electoral register which is widely available.

[The Phantom]

I can't believe that information can be abused like this.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Let me give a name and address at MBNA Legal

 

Mr William Wareing

Senior Legal Assistant

MBNA Bank Europe Ltd

Chester Park

Chester.

 

Write to him with all the details and then sit back and watch what happens

[Perseus]

With you on that Battleaxe...

Telephone number (monday onwards as he's on hols) is 01244 672348.

 

Quite helpful, seems a little cautious, but gets results and is good at holding back the dcas and threat letters/harrassment,

 

Good luck!

[The Lantana]

Yes, I now know my neighbour is not ex-directory so if they looked him up on the voters roll they then just needed a directory enquiries search.

 

No phone calls from them since my complaint lodged with FOS, but no acknowledgement of complaint either. I'll sit tight for now.

 

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

PS Thanks Perseus and Battleaxe. People with such an enlightened approach to cross-dressing and gender issues are especially welcome on here.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Lantana,

 

Lilly is a sight to behold, in my imagination. It's his own fault, but I am looking for a pair of size 11 red stilettos for him.

 

Seriously, I forgot to add wee William's telephone number for the help of all those who have been at the mercy of the other MBNA employees who only know how to send template letters. io wanted to call them something else, but the MODS might get me.

 

He is a very nice man, so treat him politely, he has a job to do and he is good value. more than all of the others.

[gemspan]

Well, I got an email from MBNA today as follows:

 

Hi gemspan

 

Can you please contact me as soon as possible on free phone 08000159553 ex 10341. I have options that I need to discuss with you in regards to this situation.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thank you.

 

Joan

 

 

This was a person email from a Joan C Smith. No mention of MBNA. However, when I checked the properties of the email it showed MBNA.

 

I emailed her back advising how dare she email me and not give the details of what her enquiry is about. Also, trying to dupe me into phoning them. If they did this again I would report them to Trading Standards.

 

 

I then got a phone call from her manager and I said the same to him and put the phone down. He called me back and I switched on my mobile to tape and told him I was tapig the conversation. He was unperturbed. These people are the pits.

 

 

As the situation stands at the moment MBNA have to produce a copy of my original agreement. They owe me over £1000 in charges with interest on top of that which will almost certainly rule out any balance I have with them.

 

 

I am absolutely furious. I went out to work and when I came back he had left a message on my phone even although I told him that I did not want phone calls and that all communication should be in writing.

 

 

What should I do now?

 

Thanks

Annie

 

[The Lantana]

I'd sit tight Annie, wait until they produce (or don't produce) a valid CCA.

 

Until then, screen your calls if you can, and don't bother initiating any contact with them. If you can't practically screen calls, simply refuse politely to take the call and end it.

 

Have you written to them asking them to stop phoning you?

 

I know what this is like, but you've come to the right place. By the time I've finished with MBNA they'll wish they'd never heard of me (please God).

 

Regards

 

 

 

Lantana

[bathgatebuyer]

Good. It's about time someone hauled these people over the coals about their behaviour. I had calls from them on an hourly basis when they were chasing me - all of which consisted of charges which they paid back after my first letter! One of their calls came within half an hour of my Dad dying - the only reason the phone was switched back on (it was only switched off because of their harassment) was to await a call from the medical practice to confirm when a Doctor would be over to record his death. Even explaining that to them, they really didn't care.

[The Lantana]

Okay friends, here's another update.

 

I got a reply to my CCA request within 12 days. What they've sent doesn't meet their obligations under the act and is not even a legible agreement. It's a copy of a fax and is genuinely unreadable (apart from my signature). I'll sit on it for a couple of weeks before chasing them up. Longer term, I need to know if they can produce an agreement if pushed. They were kind enough to return my £1.00.

 

Over 3 weeks since my complaint to the FOS, MBNA still haven't acknowledged it. FOS say they have 8 weeks to respond to them, but suggested I'd be hearing from MBNA directly a lot sooner. Next week, at the halfway mark, I'll send a polite letter to MBNA highlighting my utter disgust over their failure to respond. I'll copy the FOS on my letter.

 

Thank you all again for your support.

 

Regards

 

 

Lantana

[Guest Battleaxe]

Lantana,

 

Address your leter to Mr William Wareing, Senior legal Assistant, MBNA yadda yadd yadda, you know the Chester Park Address, make sure you send it recorded delivery, allow twovdays for delivery and then to sink the boot give him a ring on 01244 672348 at about 4.45pm. he should answer the phone himself at that time.

 

Sadly they are playing us for fools. because we are not asking for a true copy of the EXECUTED AGREEMENT, they are claiming this all they have to send us by law under the Section 77-78 regulations.

 

We have to be more explicit with them. They are now being even more clever so they think when people are asking for the Agreement, they are now substituting the word Application and getting you to sign another request form. So if this happens you strick out Application form, subsititute A true copy of the EXECUTED AGREEMENT, get the alteration witnessed, sign it yourself, and make sure you keep a photocopy for future reference. This is they they are trying dodge their legal obligations and shift the onus back onto us.

[stevesj]

just dipping in on the end here - a few observations,

 

MBNA telephone neighbours to try to get you to call them - is this not a breach of Data protection? - by calling and saying they're trying to contact you is inferring that you have a contract with them, and they are disclosing this (probably unlawfully) to the neighbour, who could be anyone, and might use your details to steal identity.

 

Thre's also the issue of harrassment - but i can see that there's something being done here.

 

It's very worrying that a company will try to contact via devious and devisive means, and that the actions of these companies are also probably illegal / unlawful.

 

good luck in resolving this.

steve

[ladybird17]

stevesj - yes people are going for harrasment, citing the Telecommunications Act, etc., just hasn't been mentioned in this thread - yet. It is in lots of others though.

[tiglet]

On afd.co.uk (news sections) Gary Jones from Mackenzie Hall blatantly states that they use a new system to find relatives/neighbours etc.

 

And I quote:

 

Mackenzie Hall specialise in locating debtors and collecting the money they owe. They accept "salvage" debt which is older and generally harder to collect and will usually have been through internal credit systems and through two external debt collection agencies before arriving at Mackenzie Hall.

Operations Director Gary Jones founded the specialist trace arm of Mackenzie Hall when he saw an opening for a Trace or Debt Collection Agency that utilises modern tools and processes combined with highly skilled staff who use the telephone as the primary tool for locating debtors.

Three years on, the trace operation has grown considerably and now serves a wide number of clients including Co-operative Bank and Halifax. Gary explained how AFD solutions have enabled him to achieve this growth and make the most of the skills of his twenty tracing staff

 

"Most cases have addresses that are not validated to letterbox level. This reduces my chance of finding neighbours, family and friends and locating the debtor - and also increases the chance of mail going to the wrong address or being returned. We needed a cost-effective way of cleansing addresses automatically as they were loaded to our case management system, allowing human intervention where necessary. We settled on AFD Refiner and this raises address accuracy from around 40% to around 92%. We use Refiner's interactive mode to clean the rest. Since using Refiner we have not had a single letter returned as "undeliverable". The result is that more people now contact us to resolve their debt issues."

 

So not only are DCA's contacting people, IMO, they shouldn't be contacting, they are actually bragging about it!

[Perseus]

stevesj - yes people are going for harrasment, citing the Telecommunications Act, etc., just hasn't been mentioned in this thread - yet. It is in lots of others though.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

hi Ladybird and others,

Just picking up on your post - thought I'd provide the link for the template letter (which includes a link for complaint reporting too).

 

Perseus

[Perseus]

On afd.co.uk (news sections) Gary Jones from Mackenzie Hall blatantly states that they use a new system to find relatives/neighbours etc.

 

And I quote:

 

Mackenzie Hall specialise in locating debtors and collecting the money they owe. They accept "salvage" debt which is older and generally harder to collect and will usually have been through internal credit systems and through two external debt collection agencies before arriving at Mackenzie Hall.

Operations Director Gary Jones founded the specialist trace arm of Mackenzie Hall when he saw an opening for a Trace or Debt Collection Agency that utilises modern tools and processes combined with highly skilled staff who use the telephone as the primary tool for locating debtors.

Three years on, the trace operation has grown considerably and now serves a wide number of clients including Co-operative Bank and Halifax. Gary explained how AFD solutions have enabled him to achieve this growth and make the most of the skills of his twenty tracing staff

 

"Most cases have addresses that are not validated to letterbox level. This reduces my chance of finding neighbours, family and friends and locating the debtor - and also increases the chance of mail going to the wrong address or being returned. We needed a cost-effective way of cleansing addresses automatically as they were loaded to our case management system, allowing human intervention where necessary. We settled on AFD Refiner and this raises address accuracy from around 40% to around 92%. We use Refiner's interactive mode to clean the rest. Since using Refiner we have not had a single letter returned as "undeliverable". The result is that more people now contact us to resolve their debt issues."

 

So not only are DCA's contacting people, IMO, they shouldn't be contacting, they are actually bragging about it!

 

I'm fairly sure you can serve this notice to MBNA to cease their external exclosure of your details

 

Heres the link to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/5078-10-data-protection-act.html - maybe someone could confirm if this is correct before you use it!

 

Perseus

[texel]

I settled all my MBNA credit cards at a discount in March /April 2006. So when I started recently on an A&L card looking for £ 304 after the usual crap I filed a suit and the case is called for 16th. March;. the other dy I received a letter dated 20th. Feb a whole page of the usual guff sorry bout my dissatifaction etc etc. Page two is the interesting one

However from reviewing your account today we agreed a partial payment of £ 3430etc. We firstly remove the amount of interest charged to the account from the outstanding balance. We have agreed not to persue you for the remaining bal of £ 1371etc. therefore in effect this amount has been written off. It would appear that although we have provided you with this generous offer, you feel that we should also refund the charges applied to you account during this period. However, in light of the assistance we have already provided, I feel it is ibn approprate to agree to this request" then the usual guff about contacting someone if I am not satisified etc etc 26 feb I sent a short letter advising that their charges are not legal and I will look forward to meeting their representative in court explaining to the judge how they arrive at such a cost. 3rd March received a cheque in full so I guess I will not be able to find out how they arrive at such a cost:D By the way I had BT stop all calls that did not have a return phone numberFound out in court that BOS had been trying to get in touch with me but were unable as BT had blocked all their calls!!! When was getting called all th time I siad I was not taking any calls I could only be reached by letter.

[The Lantana]

Thank you, friends.

 

Battleaxe and Perseus, I'm not yet ready to approach Bill directly just yet but I've noted the contact details thanks, and I'll use them in time. In the meantime I'll give MBNA more rope...

 

Tiglet, your post highlights what complete and utter scoundrels these people are. Thank you.

 

Texel, nice result. Congratulations.

 

 

Telephone Calls

 

Previously I suggested the phone calls had stopped. Actually they hadn't. Instead they changed their outgoing caller identity to 'unavailable' and continued to call.

 

This doesn't particularly bother me because when I see 'unavailable' on my phone display, I simply don't answer. I discovered the link when I cleared voicemail messages and found voicemails from Kathleen coinciding with 'unavailable' calls logged on my display. Kathleen sounded genuinely depressed, which I can relate to, and I was almost tempted to phone her back just to comfort her! They have genuinely stopped now, but see my next point..

 

 

Curious Default Notice

 

A curious twist here. I found myself doing a little research on default notices over the weekend, thanks to something that came up on another thread. So I went to fish out my MBNA default notice.

 

I assumed I was 'defaulted' a long time ago. However as I reviewed my MBNA file I found they'd sent me 'IMPORTANT DEFAULT NOTIFICATION' in October, a 'CREDITORS NOTICE' in November and only since my FOS complaint and CCA request, a 'Default Notice - Served under Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974'

 

This 's87' notice invites me to make a payment that's not quite 1% of the total amount they say is outstanding based on my last statement, but the notice itself doesn't specify an amount outstanding. there are other issues with it too, but basically it's defective as I understand the rules.

 

Coincidentally (perhaps) they sent me a 3rd short settlement offer, giving me 3 months to pay, the very same day as the 's87' notice. The amount required in the notice to bring the account back in line tally's with the initial payment they propose on the short settlement offer.

 

So it seems to me they've 'adjusted' my account to the short settlement amount and are now defaulting me for not meeting a schedule they decided unilaterally. This strikes me as extremely odd and I'm wondering if anyone can explain this?

 

 

My proposed actions this week are to 're-apply' for a TRUE copy of the EXECUTED AGREEMENT, and to send MBNA a letter expressing my utter horror they seem so unconcerned about my FOS complaint.

 

Regards

 

Lantana