itsamomentintime vs HFC

[itsamomentintime]

i am not planning to take it to court

 

 

if the creditor wanted to take it to court, they would have to prove that they can legally enforce the debt. how can they if there is no signed agreement?

[Scooby_Doo2]

i am not planning to take it to court

 

 

if the creditor wanted to take it to court, they would have to prove that they can legally enforce the debt. how can they if there is no signed agreement?

 

If you signed it, then you are legally bound by the terms and conditions of that agreement and you also had the benefits of using the account etc.

 

If the creditor took the case to court, they would simply have to prove that the defendant agreed to the terms and conditions and that the defendant is in breach of said agreement - they do not have to prove that they signed it to agree to abide by their side of the agreement. They just have to prove that you are in breach of your side of the agreement.

 

I don't think that the creditor not signing the agreement can cause the agreement to be invalid or unenforceable. But like I said, for the final word on the matter you should seek advice from a qualified solicitor.

[itsamomentintime]

scooby i appreciate your comments, they spurred me into finding the following from the Consumer Credit Act 1974:

 

 

Signing of agreement

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(b) the amount and rate of the total charge for credit (in the case of a

consumer credit agreement),

© the protection and remedies available to him under this Act, and

(d) any other matters which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, it is

desirable for him to know about in connection with the agreement.

(a) require specified information to be included in the prescribed manner in

documents, and other specified material to be excluded;

(b) contain requirements to ensure that specified information is clearly

brought to the attention of the debtor or hirer, and that one part of a document is not given insufficient or excessive prominence compared with another.

 

Consumer Credit (Total Charge for Credit, Agreements and Advertisements)

(Amendment) Regulations 1999, SI 1999/3177.

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

[itsamomentintime]

the bits in red are ALL missing from the document i recieved

 

so....not a proper CCA agreement methinks

[itsamomentintime]

recieved a threatening letter, so posted this off yesterday:

 

20th June 2007

 

Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998

Account number:

 

Dear sir/madam,

I wrote to you via recorded delivery on 24th April 2007, expressing my disappointment that you have failed to fulfil my request for a true copy of the signed Consumer Credit Act agreement between myself and your organisation. Not only is this alleged debt now legally unenforceable, it is now clear that you had no legal right to collect the payments that I have made to you.

 

I also received a letter from yourselves on 20th June 2007 advising me of your intention to register a default against me on my credit file, along with further demands for repayment. Please note that I am removing from you, my consent for you to process my data with any third parties, meaning you should not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party especially if that third party is a Credit Reference Agency.

As the above account is IN DISPUTE, you should not be making demands for repayment or making threats with regards to my credit file.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

 

If you fail to respond or do not respond with an agreeable outcome, or if you do contact any Credit Reference Agencies without my specific permission, I will pursue a claim at the County Court, for damages and legal costs.

 

Please note that I have Made a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman regarding your behaviour and non-compliance under the Data Protection Act.

I do not acknowledge any debt to Beneficial Finance or HFC bank PLC.

Regards

[b8byd]

subscribing to this thread... very interested in your outcome

[Scooby_Doo2]

the bits in red are ALL missing from the document i recieved

 

so....not a proper CCA agreement methinks

 

Well, I would have to agree that the agreement is indeed invalid if the rate of interest at the time of execution of the contract is not present.

 

As for the total charge for credit, I know that credit card companies (including HFC) have only relatively recently (within the last 2 years) started to use an example of a total charge for credit. I think they now use an example of £1,000 borrowed over 12 months and what the total charge for credit would be if minimum payments and no further borrowings were made.

 

Previously, this was not included on credit card agreements as they were open ended accounts. It's easy to work out for personal loans and other fixed term loan products, but revolving credit was a nightmare!

 

By the way, the letter you sent on 22nd June is superb! I truly hope they don't come up with a legitimate copy of the agreement - right now, some poor sod in HFC is desperately trying to find it....!! :grin:

[itsamomentintime]

hello scooby doo2

i would be amazed if they turn up a legit copy

 

after all, if they had one, they would have sent it already, rather than the application form

 

its ironic that this situation arose out of them trying to get more money out of me by adding unlawful fees

 

now they are going to get nothing

[birchave0]

subscribing!!!

[punterstuff]

Just found this thread... any updates? Very interesting points raised

[Bug]

What's the latest, itsamomentintime? This is sooo similar to my situation with these two.

[itsamomentintime]

not heard anything for ages but i have a suspicion that its been passed to a dca - will update when i get home

[Bug]

Thanks, I look forward to reading your update.

[itsamomentintime]

its been passed on all right - seems like to every dca going!! what fun!!