itsamomentintime vs HFC

[itsamomentintime]

can anyone please tell me what penalty charges (if any) can lafully be applied to my beneficial credit card account?

 

i have been charged for being over my limit, and for a payment that was not recieved in time

 

 

thanks a lot!!

[breadline]

over limit fee, late payment fee, returned payment fee you will see these are the high charges:)

[itsamomentintime]

so there is no way i can claim these charges back?

[tamadus]

so there is no way i can claim these charges back?

 

Ooops a bit of crossed wires here . Those charges Breadline mentioned are all unlawful and can be reclaimed. ie: overlimit, late payment and returned payment fees all count

[e28bigalbexley]

so there is no way i can claim these charges back?

 

I would have a good read of the FAQ's, by a good read that means about a weekends worth of reading. I think you'll find they will be very helpful.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

AL

 

ps your not HK in disguise are you?

[itsamomentintime]

sent a letter to beneficial asking for £12 late payment charges to be refunded, got told to sod off however.

 

are these charges DEFFO unlawful?

 

also, i advised them that, as they have acted unlawfully, the account should be closed and will not be repaid (i owe about £2000 on the card). do you think that i have any gounds to do this?

[Bookworm]

Yes, the charges are unlawful.

No, you don't have any grounds to get the account closed and the balance written off, unless the amount of charges levied on your account exceeds the current balance.

 

Are Beneficial charges only £12 then?

[itsamomentintime]

yeah late payment charge - time for LBA methinks

[itsamomentintime]

example---

 

if you are claiming back, lets say £1000 in charges, stretching back 6 years, do you claim 8% a year on the £1000 for 6 years, even though the charges for the first year may only be £200, then £200 for the second year, etc?

 

i mean - 6 years charges = £1000 - claim 8% a year (£80) then multiply by 6 - total £1480

 

or do you have to work out what you were charged each year, then claim interest on that amount? for instance:

 

1st year - £200 - claim 8% (£16)

2nd year - £200 - claim 8% (£16)

etc etc for 6 years, then add it all together

[Mad Nick]

To stop all our brains hurting there's a spreadsheet to work it all out in "Bank Templates Library" under "6. Interest Calculation Spreadsheets". I'd put you a link here but don't know how.

 

Suggest you try the "Simple" one first : just enter each charge, amount and date and the sheet works out the number of days since the charge and calculates the right amount of interest to be applied to that charge until now, and adds them all up.

 

Once you've got that sorted out, have a read up on two related issues :

• complex/compound interest
  
• what interest rate to use (8% isn't necessarily the answer)

There are loads of threads. For what it's worth, I didn't bother with compound interest (a nightmare to work out even if you're good with maths & spreadsheets) and I decided to claim "Contractual" interest at Abbey's authorised overdraft rate (16.9%) in my Prelim letter knowing that I can always back down in negotiation to the "Statutory" interest (8%) which the Court would give me anyway if it goes that far.

[Michael Browne]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

[itsamomentintime]

thanks for the info

 

my understanding is that i can claim interest on each and every charge, and from when it was applied to my account

 

however i am unsure when to claim TO

 

for instance - a charge of £20 was applied to my account on 10/10/2001, so i can claim 8% from then, but how long can i claim the 8% for? from when i filed my claim with MCOL? or until abbey file their defence? when?

[Glenn UK]

 

There are loads of threads. For what it's worth, I didn't bother with compound interest (a nightmare to work out even if you're good with maths & spreadsheets) and I decided to claim "Contractual" interest at Abbey's authorised overdraft rate (16.9%) FWIW Contractual interest is COMPOUND interest. Contractual interest is not only the rate expressed but the manner in which it is applied. in my Prelim letter knowing that I can always back down in negotiation to the "Statutory" interest (8%) which the Court would give me anyway Interest is discretionary a court may give you the 16.9% interest you have claimed, it may give you the 8% or it may give you an amount it judges right in your case. This could be less than 8% or it could be nothing.if it goes that far.

 

With regards to the rate chosen when considering contractual interest there seem to be two schools of thought, authorised or excess overdraft rate. Whichever school you belong to you need to be applyign some logic you can explain to the court as to why you chose the rate you did.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[Mad Nick]

Just keep recalculating the interest (ie cranking it up as the days go by) until they settle or it goes to Court. In other words, the longer they mess about, the more days of interest there are since they levied each charge. Obviously you can't ring them up every day with a higher figure, but each time you communicate formally include the (now) higher interest figure. It might not be much to them, but it is to us !! Regards, Mad Nick

[Glenn UK]

thanks for the info

 

my understanding is that i can claim interest on each and every charge, and from when it was applied to my account

 

however i am unsure when to claim TO

 

for instance - a charge of £20 was applied to my account on 10/10/2001, so i can claim 8% from then, but how long can i claim the 8% for? from when i filed my claim with MCOL? or until abbey file their defence? when?

 

When you file your claim you should have stated a value for the charges and the interest, then an amount per day thereafter based on the 8%.

 

If you used contractual interest then you should have done the same but quoted a daily interest rate for after you filed the claim

 

Assuming you get the interest its payable up until the claim is paid or the court makes the judgement, in which case the defendant will probably get 7 or 14 days to pay interest fee i believe.

 

HTH

 

 

Glenn

[itsamomentintime]

sent a SAR to HFC in relation to a Beneficial credit card, statements arrived today (loads!!!)

 

going to have a look thru - will keep you posted

[Billy55]

They are pussy cats, do not accept there first offer!

[itsamomentintime]

They are pussy cats, do not accept there first offer!

 

 

i would only ever accept an offer for the full amount i am claiming. its not a huge amount but its mine!!!

 

 

 

25th January 2007

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

 

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges which you have levied from my account over the last 5 years.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £60

 

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter. Please note that if I am forced to submit a claim, I will also be adding contractual interest to the amount claimed

 

 

 

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

 

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

itsamomentintime

 

 

Schedule of charges

Account number XXXXX

14/11/06 NSF CHK charge assess £12

14/11/06 over limit admin charge £12

11/12/06 late payment admin charge £12

11/12/06 NSF CHK charge assess £12

11/12/06 over limit admin charge £12

[itsamomentintime]

hey hey settlement letter for the full amount recieved today which i will of course accept

 

but there are terms to the settlement which i will not accept

 

does anyone know if there is a template accepting the refund BUT rejecting the terms of the settlement?

[itsamomentintime]

sent this today:

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

 

Your ref:

 

Dear James

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 30 January 2007. I will of course be accepting the refund of £60, in the form of a credit to my account with yourselves.

 

However please note that I do not, under any circumstances accept any of the conditions that you have detailed in your letter.

If any unlawful charges are added to my account in the future, rest assured that I will recover them in a court of law, if necessary.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

itsamomentintime

[itsamomentintime]

to continue....

 

I also sent a request for a copy of the CCA

 

recieved a terrible copy of the application form, with only my signature on it

 

i am a bit confused as the application form also says 'credit agreement' on it

 

am i right in saying the debt is unenforceable?

[itsamomentintime]

recieved a call today from Beneficial asking for a monthly payment

 

i advised that, as they have not provided a true, executed, signed copy of the CCA, the debt is enforceable

 

response i got? "dont be so ridiculous!!"

 

morons!!!!!!

[Scooby_Doo2]

to continue....

 

I also sent a request for a copy of the CCA

 

recieved a terrible copy of the application form, with only my signature on it

 

i am a bit confused as the application form also says 'credit agreement' on it

 

am i right in saying the debt is unenforceable?

 

I believe that the application infomation can be on the same page as a regulated agreement.

 

The key thing to look for though, is your signature in a box with the words:

 

"This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms."

 

There should also be a statement of your rights before the signature box.

 

If these are not present, then what you hold is not actually a copy of your credit agreement.

 

If it does have the signature box, the words above and your signature, then I'm sorry to say that it is enforceable

[itsamomentintime]

how can it be enforceale if there is no creditors signature?

[Scooby_Doo2]

how can it be enforceale if there is no creditors signature?

 

HFC should have signed it upon receipt, but if you took the case to court on this basis I think the judge would simply say that you signed to agree to the terms and conditions of the account. HFC may not have signed it, but they granted you the facility anyway.

 

I'm sorry to say that the only way I can think of the contract not being enforceable is if they have lost it, you didn't sign it, or you convince the court that it breaches the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999. Or of course if they have breached the terms of the contract somehow.

 

That's only my opinion - a solicitor could give you a definitive answer - for a nice fat fee :o