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    • its not a 'payment limit'...i just want to know if theres any thing in comsumer law that says they can not take over 45 days to refund me. do you really think its fair they withold everyones refund and earn interest on the funds in their corperate account?   as i said before(after trying to sort it for a couple of months with HP not replying, not offering a solution etc) i emailed 3 different people from different departments every day for over a monthas they wouldnt tell me when the refund would be - they just keep stringing you along. they are a nightmare to deal with or get any results in a timely manner. i phoned various departments all of which took hours at a time as no one could tell me when i'd get my refund and why ive not got my refund so far. i had to wait 6 days for a parcelforce label because they sent emails for the return without the actual label to print out...so i had to keep emailing them saying 'theres no label' only to receive a pre-typed reply with 'here is your label' that didnt contain an attachement with the label. so i had to ring parcelforce and then they arranged a collection that didnt turn up (after waiting in all day) so then had to start emailing incompetant HP again...and the cycle continued. i even joined their forum in hopes that someone would sort it...so wasted time on there explaining everything to someone who said they would get it sorted...then after a few days of no reply i had to email them and they would reply with general bs like "yes its getting refunded now"...then i asked when and they wouldnt reply for days which prompted more emails etc etc etc i made 3 official complaints ....all of which just got marked as 'resolved' just because they answered me with "your refund will be processed"..so i emailed back questioning when it will be refunded ie a date and then receive another reply of "we are dealing with your request and investigating this"...leaving you in the lurch with no definite answer. there are other customers on their own forums saying the same thing - some have been waiting 60 days or longer.... but dont take my word for it...buy something from them and then see how bad they are when things go wrong and how much time will be consumed in your day just trying to get a simple answer like what day you will be receiving your refund...as they never told me. i just had to wait for over 45 days in the hopes that they actually would refund me sometime this year! aftter a month citizens advice told me to write letters and send recorded delivery in case they never did refund me. this took hours of my time and going to the post office or getting someone to do it is inconvenience as i have a mobility disability. its like banging your head against a brick wall with them...which is why all i want is  to be forearmed as i dont want to be going too and throw for another month establishing that they do have to compensate me for the time/ emails, lost interest of my money and postage for the recorded letters etc etc etc
    • Topic title amended https://www.gov.uk/accepting-returns-and-giving-refunds#:~:text=You must offer a refund,of receiving the goods back.     .  
    • threads merged for clarity. Looks like they've accepted F&F and you have proof of acceptance. See what they say on your credit report, it can take a couple of reports to update depending on when Barclaycard declares it as partially settled/satisfied. Best not to post up and go radio silent though. 
    • So you have your refund? If you have your refund what's the problem?? What money have you wasted in getting a refund/ how have you wasted money in getting a refund? You can't sue them because they took too long to refund. The emails I gave you earlier were because I thought you didn't get a refund yet. If you already have it im not sure what your expecting?
    • Octopus are very approachable so I would suggest you contact them, advise them paying the amount in one go is going to cause you hardship and ask if it could be paid off at an agreed rate of an additional £xx to the next few months bills. I'd be surprised if they didn't agree.
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Thanks Jan, Just getting ready to go now so its my last post for 2 weeks.

Scoobz & SB..good luck with your court case's, hopefully you'll both be settled before i get back and you never know...i might have a nice fat cheque when i get back...hahaha whatever!!

Take care everyone and carry on the fight!!

Luv Jenny xx

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Guess who's applied for a stay!! I cant beleive it...well yeah i can. After all this time less than a week before court. The court have said i can object at the hearing which i must attend. Does that mean they have to attend too?

Buggers....i am soooooooo peeved now!!

Jen x

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Bleep bleep - what a cheek - all the time they have had - all that you can hope is that they have annoyed the judge even more .

 

They are bound to quote the carlisle case ( that MartyR has a copy of)

 

I am not sure whether they have to appear? I would have thought besides taking the new bundle that your main defence is going to be the evidence of their deliberate constant abuse of the system - prolonging your case for no reason at all while having paid other claims ( feel free to use my case number) yours could have been settled months ago.

 

Was there anything on the links about the proper proceedure for requesting a stay ? Have they abused that at all?

 

Also what about the abuse of not producing the documents the court requested from them?

 

 

 

Jan:evil:

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Hi Jan, Thanks for the help, to be honest i have not looked into it....didnt think they would apply for a stay, gonna try and find some info on what to do.

Jen xx

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They must've waited till you got back from holidays Jen.. How considerate!

Remember my case was turned into an application for stay, just a day before. I sent off a good objection straight away, but as it turned out Wragges agents were waiting for me when I arrived at court, to talk about settlement! I was shocked but gladly settled and the case was vacated.

I'm sure something similar will happen to you.

Love Kayx

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Depending on your circumstances, there are a couple of items in the Bank Templates Library that might help you.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/

 

It may be worth including the Moneybox programme from last year when they said they'd pay anyone who raised a court claim, but wouldn't go to court. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/programmes/money_box/transcripts/10_06_06.txt

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Thanks hun, I do hope so. I don't think i can wait till next year. If they had turned up to court last time we could have sorted this out then....They seem to be unbreakable lately. XX

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Thanks Caro, I've looked at the skeleton arguement, that seems to be what i am up against, to try and argue against the stay being granted. I am hoping the LOVELY judges dont take their crap, but i think at the last hearing they said if the banks apply properly then they'll grant the stay. I am hoping to argue the vexatiousness of A&L and their behaviour previously to argue against. What do you think??

XX

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Anything is worth a try. I'm not sure how long it is since your prelim to A&L, but it's certainly worth pointing out any delays they may have caused.

 

If this is Leeds Mercantile again I think you should have an application ready on an N244 and your payment to make sure you do it by the book, but frankly I'm not convinced that you won't be wasting your money.

 

Sorry to pour cold water on this, but the courts seem to be getting tougher and tougher with the stays.:(

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi Caro,

 

I've read the transcripts from August and i think i'll ask the judge on the day not to stay it, go through various points like the fact they didnt attend last time and their various e-mails not negotiating etc if he grants it i'll accept it and not appeal....whats another few months when this started in Dec/Jan??

I think your right...it would be a waste...I think this is one time that having the hearing at mercantile is not in our favour,

 

Never mind,

Jenny x

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HI,

 

This is the letter i'll take with me...any pointers?? Feel free to edit!!

 

I respectfully ask for this case not to be stayed and to continue on as before.

The reasons for this request are as follows.

The defendant did not feel the need to attend the previous case management conference on 28th June 2007. If they had attended this would have given both parties a chance to negotiate, failing negotiations, directions would have been given and the case would have ended by now. This is only delaying the case which has been ongoing since January.

I have tried to negotiate out of court with the defendant but they are reluctant at this time. (see evidence JB 1 ) Although they have quoted that they are not willing to attend court (see evidence JB 2) and have settled numerous cases out of court. (see evidence JB 3 ) I have spoken to a contact at the Alliance & Leicester ( Andy Benson) who has quoted to me numerous times that Wragge & Co have full authority to settle and should be doing that, he has also phoned Wragge & Co and asked them to contact me with view to a settlement which they were reluctant to do.

At the last CMC in August it was discussed that a condition of the stay would be for the un-disputed charges not to be enforced. The Alliance & Leicester sent me a letter (see JB 4 ) saying that they will close my account if I pursue this. The said account has been closed for a number of years so this threat didn’t affect me but the unacceptable retaliatory actions by the defendant shouldn’t be accepted. They have since been fined numerous times for this behaviour.

The defendants as I mentioned before, failed to attend the previous hearing, filed important paperwork at the last minute, failed to communicate properly with the courts and myself and now less than a week before the hearing, apply for a stay. Surely these actions are vexatious and the defendants shouldn’t be abusing the court process in this way?

The stay is being applied for under the blanket of the OFT test case but it has been reported ( see evidence JB 5 ) that the test case might be dropped if the banks agree to lowering their charges, many of the banks have already agreed to this the first being Lloyds TSB. It is also a concern that the Alliance & Leicester is not one of the banks listed in the hearing therefore do not have to defend themselves to the OFT, yet they want protection against claims by applying for a stay.

I hope you consider these points and allow the case to continue.

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Excellent Jenny. I think you've probably covered all bases, but if I think of anything else I'll let you know.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Thanks Caro, I have added a bit more (on my thread in the merc ) ive included the articles where a&l have been fined for acc closure and that they have started lowering their fees.

Jenny x

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I really think the transcript from the Moneybox programme I linked for you above is worth considering too, to demonstrate their vexatiousness and abuse of the court system. This bit in particular.

 

Alliance & Leicester has started sending this letter to

those who have reclaimed money.

 

LETTER: As it is clear that you do not accept certain

aspects of the terms and conditions for the operation of your account,

we regret that we are unable to continue to offer you banking facilities.

We are therefore now giving you notice that your account will be

closed.

 

LEWIS: I asked Ginny Broad of Alliance & Leicester

who they were sending that letter to.

 

BROAD: We’re talking about people who are very happy

to accept the benefits of an Alliance & Leicester current account but

aren’t happy to keep their side of the bargain, which is to run their

account responsibly, to keep their balance within the limits they’ve

agreed. So much so that they’ve actually taken us to court to try to

recover the costs, so they’re clearly not happy with the situation.

 

LEWIS: So the customers who are getting this letter are

not people who question charges or who ask for them back. They are

the people who’ve specifically said if you don’t pay them back, we’ll

go to court.

 

BROAD: We’re talking about people who’ve actually

issued court proceedings against us, yes.

 

LEWIS: And why is it that you don’t just refuse to pay

them? Why are you paying them and then closing the account?

 

BROAD: Well we believe that our fees and charges are

entirely reasonable, but that the cost of fighting the court case, of

having the litigation and so forth individually, is not worthwhile. We

can’t recover our costs from the court, so currently we’re not defending

these. So we’re repaying people the charges and then what we’re

saying is that we’ve reached a point where the relationship really isn’t

working and so really the best thing for both parties is to have a clean

break.

 

LEWIS: But the only reason people threaten to go to

court is because they believe that the charges are actually illegal.

 

BROAD: We’re saying that we believe that our charges

are both clear and reasonable. And also the other point to bear in mind

is they’re entirely avoidable.

 

LEWIS: Are you saying they’re lawful?

 

BROAD: We believe so, yes.

 

LEWIS: And just so I’m clear about it, when somebody

has exceeded their overdraft limit - you charge them £25 on day two,

£25 on day five – what costs do you actually incur that that money is to

recover?

 

BROAD: We’re talking about the whole issue of the

communication and management of the relationship with the customer.

 

LEWIS: So you’re saying that in every case if somebody

exceeds their overdraft limit for 5 days, it costs Alliance & Leicester

£50?

 

BROAD: I’m not saying that. I’m saying that our charges

reflect the overall level of these costs.

 

LEWIS: Right. So if it doesn’t cost you £50, how can it

be lawful?

 

BROAD: We believe that our charges are both reasonable

and lawful.

 

LEWIS: Do you think you’re going to have to close

more than a few dozen accounts because there is now a growing

consumer movement – there are websites about it, more and more

customers are trying to challenge what they believe are illegal charges?

Are you going to have to close more and more accounts?

BROAD: I sincerely hope not because we offer a really

good value account – the lowest overdraft rate in the UK, great credit

interest – and these charges are entirely avoidable if people run their

account correctly. And if they slip up, it’s very easy to check on how

things are or to pop some money in or extend the overdraft.

 

LEWIS: And wouldn’t it be better from your point of

view to simply go to court with one of these cases, get a decision that it

is lawful – which is what you believe – and then there’d never be any

argument about it again?

 

BROAD: We prefer to carry on with the way that we’re

doing it at the moment.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Hi Caro, Ive got that in too...mainly because it says that they are not willing to attend court.

 

Ta hun xx

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Yep, that's my point, although it was pre-Wragge.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Sorry to pour cold water on this, but the courts seem to be getting tougher and tougher with the stays.:(

 

Yes Caro,

 

This stay scenario appears to be a 'Groundhog Day' to enable the banks to set up departments to deal with complaints when they come in, and get their act together when it comes to how to answer complaints and minimise any payouts they are liable for.

 

Hang in there Jen,

 

Tide

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Thanks Caro and Tide, I think i've got all my bits together now..although it can be edited if anyone can think of anything else!!

Thanks again

 

Jen xx

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OMG Jen I can't believe that they have left it this long before they've applied for a stay, they are just getting so annoying its untrue?

 

The letter you've composed looks great to me and if you need a list of the A&L cases settled since the OFT Test Case then I've got one that I can send you...

 

I agree that it would be a good idea just to give the Judge this letter and see what he has to say about it because if he does allow the stay to be granted I think it would be a waste of £65 to apply to have it lifted as this does seem to be an ongoing battle that claimants are now having to face, and there's not been many who have won.

 

I expect my stay request is winding its way to me too! :evil:

 

Scoobz

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Hi All, I've been looking round the forum and this case... Haines v Alliance & Leicester at Winchester CC, keeps getting a mention by the judges in court. Does anyone know the importance of this case? Does anyone know anything about this?

 

Jenny xx

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Hi Jenny

 

I have checked around as well and on the internet - but cant find anything- the only thing I can think of is to ask Marty how he got the transcript of the other case?

 

Maybe they are just grabbing hold of any case where the stay hearing failed and using it as a precedent.

 

I will be thinking of you tomorrow.

 

Jan

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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