Parking eye/dcbl ANPR pcn -10 mins 35 seconds over appointment - WRIGHT STREET SOUTHPORT

[Helpme24]

I hope I’ve posted for help in the correct place.

I’ve been away from the property for quite awhile and came back to 4 letters about a parking charge.

I was 10 minutes and 35 seconds over the time as I was late in an appointment.

I can prove the appointment but it’s in hand writing on an appointment card, I haven’t appealed yet and it’s out of time it happened back in November.

They’re now wanting £170 dcbl,

I’m actually financially unable to pay this.

I have a financial statement recently written up by citizens advice to prove this as well. I’m just watching some guidance on what I should do.

As last time I ignored DCBL.

They did do a letter before action of the court. 

Help please x …

1 Date of the infringement 10.11.23

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 14.11.23

 

3 Date received 01/02/24
4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] YES 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] NO

7 Who is the parking company? PARKING EYE 

8. Where exactly? WRIGHT STREET SOUTHPORT 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

PCN / PCNR / PARKING EYE / DCBL

 

 

Letters.pdf

[dx100uk]

well its a good job you did miss the appeal time limit as you never appeal!

we'll need the backside of the other letters too.

sit on your hands till/if you ever get a letter of claim.

a DCA is not a bailiff

thread title updated

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum and thank you for posting the information that we need.

Dx has asked if you could please post up the front and back od the PCNs but all that is needeis just the front and back of the original PCN as the wording on that is crucial since if it doesn't comply with the Proection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Parking Eye cannot transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper if the charge is still unpaid after 28 days.

And even if you were also the driver shold your case ever get to Court PE cannot claim that the driver and the keeper are the same person and as anyone with a motor insurance policy can drive your car it will be very hard for PE to win in Court should it get that far.

One of the stipulations in the PoFA is that the parking period must be specified. Along with most other parking companies  they use ANPR cameras to regiter the arrival and exit of each vehicle.  it seems obvious to everybody except the prking companies that driving from the entrance to a parking spot [which can take some time finding a place in a busy car park ] then later  driving to the exit cannot be described as parking.

I am not sure why they issued you with a PCN as they are suppposed to allow a ten minute grace period at the end of the parking session so are they really issuing a ticket for being 35 seconds over time?

Under PoFA the PCN is supposed to arrive at your property wihin 14 days of the alleged breach but although yours arrived later, the key feature is the time that PE says they posted the PCN and then the PCN is deemed to  arrive two working days later.  I think there were postal strikes at the time so the 14 day period doesn't count.

That is as far as I can see at the moment but once you post up the whole PCN where we can see al the wording we can find out if they comply with PoFA 2012.

 

[Helpme24]

Hello, thank you so much for your replies, this is the best help I’ve got so far! I have taken a picture of the back as you requested and attached it. 
 

Am I right in thinking that there is no 10 minute grace period for private car parks, it’s only Council? If there is a 10 minute grace period for private car parks then yes, I was literally 35 seconds over it! Which is absolutely ludicrous to try & get £170 out of me! 

And as I said, I’m in no financial position to pay this, so I don’t know how to go about any of it. I have an appointment card to prove I was in Specsavers, but it’s handwritten, so I don’t know if that’s suffice. 
 

Ive left DCBL letters before & they came after me hard & I feel almost like now, they know they’ve got money out of me before, they’ll do it again? Like I’m probably on file like you go after this one she’ll pay up lol.

I just don’t know on what grounds I can get out of it, as yeah I was over the time limit by 35 seconds if there is a 10 minute grace period, because doodoo happens I just don’t feel the amount is justified and these companies don't care why you were late in their eyes. 
 

With regards to timing, it was received late just because I wasn’t at the property, I think timing wise they’ve done everything right on their end. 
 

Thank you in advance for your help in advise! 

 

PCN reverse page.pdf

 

I also have a copy of the receipt of the electronic ticket as I paid via the app, to correlate timings.

[dx100uk]

9 minutes ago, Helpme24 said:

Am I right in thinking that there is no 10 minute grace period for private car parks, it’s only Council?

there is.

10 minutes ago, Helpme24 said:

Ive left DCBL letters before & they came after me hard & I feel almost like now, they know they’ve got money out of me before, they’ll do it again? Like I’m probably on file like you go after this one she’ll pay up lol

opps you fell for their BS. yes they think you are a mug now.

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you for posting the rear of the PCN. Unusually for PE it does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9 [2][e] it states

e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper  (i)to pay the unpaid parking charges;

They misquote the section as 2b as well but by missing out the part that asks the keeper to pay the charge — they forfeit the ability to transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper if the PCN is not paid within 28 days. So only the driver is now responsible for the charge.

I have the impression that you did appeal at one time. I hope that you didn't admit you were the driver if indeed you were. This is because there are thousands of drivers able to legally drive your car which makes it hard for them to prove who was driving on that day particularly as Courts do not accpet that the keeper and the driver are the same person.

I am a bit puzzled by the address they gave for where you parked-Wright Street Southport. I have looked and the street must be well over a mile long and I couldn't find anywhere that was marked as being under a private parking rogue. It looks as if it should be a Council maintained road. Can you please help us with that.

It would help if you could also get some legible photos of their signage since we need all the ammunition we cna get since you obviously do not want to pay and would be possibly extra insurance in case you did appeal.

 

 

[Nicky Boy]

10 hours ago, Helpme24 said:

I just don’t know on what grounds I can get out of it, as yeah I was over the time limit by 35 seconds if there is a 10 minute grace period, because doodoo happens I just don’t feel the amount is justified and these companies don't care why you were late in their eyes. 

Their Trade association rules (which they are obliged to follow) require a 10 minute grace period (minimum) to leave the car park at the end of your period of parking.

13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN.

The timings these charlatans use are ANPR entry / exit times from the car park. This is clearly NOT the period of actual parking.

Relax and don't stress out about this. There will be other things they've got wrong...

[Helpme24]

Thank you for the information, 

Sorry for the confusion, I have not made any appeal for this pcn, I’ve made no contact at all. I was just stating in a previous incident with DCBL years ago, I paid up, I’m not this time round. 

I have attached a screenshot of the car park on Google Maps. 

I will go and get some photos now. so far, I’ve learned that there is a 10 minute grace period they have to abide by, and the driver is now liable. 

this PCN is literally about 35 seconds! 

I actually first came across this forum, because there was a case to do with Wright Street Southport back in 2019.

I think it was to do with something about it originally being applied as council owned or something to do with advertising, I was trying to follow the thread but it was quite confusing

, I believe it’s about the same car park, if you could find it, the previous case may be able to help this,

I think that was about an unpaid ticket.

 

Wright Street Car Park aerial view.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Get good photos. We need to be able to read them.

Don't forget the signage at the pay machines as well.

6 minutes ago, Helpme24 said:

So this PCN is literally about 35 seconds! 

And that 35 seconds (and more) will be used up actually parking and paying for your parking, which cannot be considered part of your parking period.

[Helpme24]

Photos as requested  

Helpme24's Wright Street Southport photos -1.pdf

[honeybee13]

Well done HM24, that was quick!

I'm really sorry, could you make them into a multi-page pdf please? It's a pain for people with small screens like a phone to keep downloading, takes forever.

Our upload guide will help you.

HB

[Grotesque]

if it's OK, I've done that. Got some new software I'm looking for excuses to play with apologies for butting in though.

Helpme24's Wright Street Southport photos -1.pdf

[Helpme24]

thank you so much for that! I’m on my phone so wasn’t sure how to do it. 
I’ve just got another letter from dcbl through the post, “final reminder”

“final reminder” letter dcbl for reference 

 

 

2024-01-31 DCBL Final Reminder.pdf

[FTMDave]

To be laughed at and to be ignored.

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you for taking the photographs. The entrance sign doesn't mention anything about the T&Cs within the car park so that  sign cannot be contractual as it is only an offer to, treat.

I expect your Final letter from DCBL will be the first of several Final letters. I am beginning to wonder if the word final has changed its meaning since I left school.

[Nicky Boy]

9 hours ago, lookinforinfo said:

I expect your Final letter from DCBL will be the first of several Final letters. I am beginning to wonder if the word final has changed its meaning since I left school.

My exact thoughts LFI!

Mind you, I left school a loooong time ago, so the whole English language could have changed meaning...

[Helpme24]

Hello,

its been a while,

I have had two further letters in feb & March attached.

I haven’t made any contact, please could you advise what you suggest I do,

would they really try take me to court being only 15 seconds over!

thanks 

 

2024-02-29 DCBL Final Notice Of Debt Recovery.pdf 2024-03-27 DCBL Notice of Intended Legal Action.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hi.

The letters are fine to ignore. But if you get any more, especially if they have the heading Letter Before Action/Letter of Claim you need to come back here quickly.

If you're not sure if it's a Letter of Claim, come back here and check.

HB

 

[Helpme24]

So notice of intended legal action is okay to ignore? 

No problem, will do thank you for your quick response and help! 

[lookinforinfo]

I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out.

Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.

Edited May 2 by lookinforinfo

[Nicky Boy]

17 hours ago, Helpme24 said:

would they really try take me to court being only 15 seconds over!

Depends on how stupid/greedy/bored they are. It obviously wouldn't stick in front of a judge

[dx100uk]

On 12/02/2024 at 20:22, dx100uk said:

sit on your hands till/if you ever get a letter of claim.

a DCA is not a bailiff

dx

 

its not a good idea to disappear for 2 mths without reading up.

1000's of threads here to read.

dx