Big Motoring World Kent - PX'd my car - new vehicle has serious non reported frontend accident damage impacting engine - paid by debit Card.

[Mumwhoruns]

Hi, 

Purchase a car from Big Motoring World on 28/01/24 with part exchange. Car had complete MOT etc. Paid via debit card £14,899 and seemingly fine on test drive and drive home to Essex from Kent.

As precaution I took the car into our local garage today 30/01/24 and they called within the hour to say that even before being up on the ramps they can tell that the car has been in a serious accident that has crashed the front that has impacted the engine and upon looking at previous MOTs prior to the current one there are a number of advisories that seemingly have just disappeared from the most recent one.

The garage advised that could be 3-5k worth to repair but to simply return it and get rid. Meanwhile the garage has the car currently and are going over it with a fine tooth comb and noting and recording all the problems.

I’ve seen various posts about claiming a refund from BMW in writing and via email.
 

My question is do I drive the car back to them and sit there until they refund?

Do I need to also call BMW? My garage advised not to fix but simply get rid.

Do I start a charge back with my bank immediately or do I have to wait for BMW to acknowledge the letter that I will send via recorded delivery and email?

 

Many thanks in advance 

[BankFodder]

Start taking immediate action.

Get the findings of the garage you took it to in writing.

Write BMW a letter rejecting the vehicle and demanding a refund.

Take the vehicle back and leave it there.

Begin a chargeback process.

If you don't get your refund within 14 days maximum then we will help you begin a legal action.

In the meantime, please take photographs of it including the registration number so we can publicise it can order to possibly protect other people who might think about buying the same vehicle and who happened to chance on this website.

If you have a copy of the advertisement then that will also be very useful. Please post it here

It would also be helpful if you could obtain a written opinion from your garage as to whether or not it is roadworthy and if not, in what respect might it fail an MOT

Also, see if you can get photographs of the areas which the garage considers have been damaged

Before you take it back, you should photograph everything. Including extra keys etc.

You should take copies of any documents v5 etc.

And then make sure that they are all safely returned in an envelope and give it by hand to somebody at the BMW garage.

If they refuse it then leave it on their desk. Don't take any nonsense. Leave the car there and leave.

[Mumwhoruns]

Thank you. 
Original advert for the car was taken down as soon as we paid, however, once I have all the paperwork from the garage and state of play I will upload pics and other bits to protect others.

Just been to our garage and they will provide the report tomorrow along with photographs and video. They need to double check the engine number matches what is recorded from new to ensure a different engine hasn’t been dropped in.

I don’t know exactly the issues apart from a knocking noise from the engine and something to do with the sump, but they seem adamant that it’s not viable to be fixed and there’s damage to the engine.

In terms of chargeback, do I need to provide the bank with evidence that I have requested a refund from BMW?

With driving the car back to BMW, do I have to evidence that I have sent them the email/hard copy through post etc requesting refund before leaving the car on their premises?

And finally (apologies) what happens with the fact that I part exchanged our car for this new one that then came off the original cost of the car (original cost £15,800), was given £1,000 for our car.

Many thanks for your advice

[dx100uk]

just phone your bank and do a chargeback.

is your PX car still there? 

 

[Mumwhoruns]

Sadly no idea as BMW is in Kent and I’m in Essex.

I should imagine it’s been sent for auction/scrap already.

[Mumwhoruns]

Hi, 

Just as an update,

the garage completed their extensive checks on the vehicle yesterday to the sum of £192 in labour.

The car was re MOT and passed but they are saying it has at last 20+ issues with the main one being the engine.

In short their opinion is that the car had been in a front end crash that had not be recorded with any insurance companies.

The oil sump was damage and the car had been run without oil for a period of time causing internal damage which is where the noise is coming from.

They couldn’t establish if it’s the engine from new as it would need stripping down to verify and that in turn could then allow BMW to say they car has been tamper with.  

Its had work and parts done that aren’t seen on a car with low mileage and the sump has been remove and revealed with incorrect sealant and every bolt has been removed and refitted leaving marks on the bolts.  The list goes on tbh.

I contacted my bank for a chargeback but have been told I can’t do that until BMW have given a view on what their course of action is on whether they will refund or not. 

We don’t yet have the V5 document from DVLA so I don’t know where I stand sending a letter requesting refund and refusing the vehicle?

My husband is calling BMW now on a recorded line to get their view on a refund.

Is there something different I need to say in my letter to BMW as it’s within the 14 days of purchase rather than 30 days as seems to be the more common period with others disputing with BMW.

any other guidance would be greatly appreciated.

thanks 

[dx100uk]

as you test drove the car the 14 days under consumer contract law does not apply.

however your 30 days under the consumer rights act - as not fit for purpose - does.

you can reject the car and demand a full refund.

[Mumwhoruns]

Amazing! Thank you, good to understand what I’m stipulating in my email.

My husband has registered the issue with BMW and we’ve been told we would get a call back in 48 hours - the wait begins.

[BankFodder]

Make sure you record every call that you have from this company.

However, don't make any promises or commitments back to them or promise to take the car back for repairs or anything until you have checked it out with us.

A very common scenario is that they ask for the car to be taken back for a diagnostic check. They then go ahead and say that they have carried out repairs and that you have no further rights..

You should send a letter of rejection immediately and make it clear that even if they want to carry out checks, they should not consider this as overriding your rejection.

Tell them that if you resile from your rejection that this must be in writing from you.

Send this in writing straight away before you have any phone calls and on the phone make sure that you're refer to that and stand by this position.

From the stories we hear, they will manipulate or misinterpret or mislead.

You should make sure that everything is clear in writing

[Mumwhoruns]

Thank you for your response.
I can get a letter out to them today with copies of all the report pictures etc but I don’t have the V5 and they would not get the letter until tomorrow at earliest.

I’ll attach a copy of my letter 

 

Here is the draft so far...

Dear Big Motoring World,

I am writing to formally assert my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding the car that I purchased from your dealership on 28/02/2024, for which I paid £14,799.

Within the initial 30 days of ownership, a significant defect has materialised in the vehicle, specifically related to its engine, along with a multitude of other defects.

The initial test drive of the vehicle on 27/01/2024 seemed to show no alarming issues, however, following the drive home once purchased, we noticed a knocking noise while the car was idle but then more alarmingly when revved. We immediately booked the car into our local registered garage,  where our other cars receive their service and MOTs.  Within the hour of the newly purchased car being with the garage, we were told that it should be returned to the dealership and should not be driven further.

The car was then with the garage a further 24 hours for a full inspection, diagnostic checks and MOT. Upon completion, their professional advice was to have the dealership collect it for return to their premises as it should not be driven. This incurred additional personal expense to me to the sum of £192.00.

Under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, it is explicitly stated that goods must be accurately described, fit for their intended purpose, and of satisfactory quality. Given that your dealership is in breach of this contractual obligation, and considering that the defective engine and substantial issues in the car have been detected within the first 30 days of ownership, I therefore am rejecting the car and requesting a full refund in accordance with my statutory rights.  Should you wish to perform your own checks on the vehicle, do not consider this to override my rights to reject the vehicle. If I should decide to resile from my rejection of the vehicle then I would put this in writing to that effect.

Therefore, I kindly request that you provide a prompt response within 14 days, clearly outlining the process for receiving a refund and the arrangements for facilitating the return of the vehicle.

Additionally, I expect Big Motoring World to take full responsibility for coordinating the return of the vehicle. In the event that any expenses are incurred by me during this process, I anticipate that Big Motoring World will promptly reimburse me.

I trust that you will handle this matter with the seriousness it deserves, acknowledging my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and promptly addressing the refund and return of the vehicle in accordance with the law.

Yours sincerely,

 

[BankFodder]

Good letter but you didn't warn them that if they carried out their own inspection you would not resile from your rejection.

If they offer you a diagnosis as they surely will do cover make sure that you put this point in writing.

It is essential. We have seen cases where they carry out then own diagnosis and then say that they were given permission to repair and that the rejection was withdrawn

[Mumwhoruns]

Thank you. I did revise after your last message and it now reads as follows...

 

Dear Big Motoring World,

I am writing to formally assert my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 regarding the car that I purchased from your dealership on 28/02/2024, for which I paid £14,799.

Within the initial 30 days of ownership, a significant defect has materialised in the vehicle, specifically related to its engine, along with a multitude of other defects.

The initial test drive of the vehicle on 27/01/2024 seemed to show no alarming issues, however, following the drive home once purchased, we noticed a knocking noise while the car was idle but then more alarmingly when revved. We immediately booked the car into our local registered garage,  where our other cars receive their service and MOTs.  Within the hour of the newly purchased car being with the garage, we were told that it should be returned to the dealership and should not be driven further.

The car was then with the garage a further 24 hours for a full inspection, diagnostic checks and MOT. Upon completion, their professional advice was to have the dealership collect it for return to their premises as it should not be driven. This inspection and full diagnostic review incurred additional personal expense to me to the sum of £192.00.

Under the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, it is explicitly stated that goods must be accurately described, fit for their intended purpose, and of satisfactory quality. Given that your dealership is in breach of this contractual obligation, and considering that the defective engine and substantial issues in the car have been detected within the first 30 days of ownership, I therefore am rejecting the car and requesting a full refund in accordance with my statutory rights.  Should you wish to perform your own checks on the vehicle, do not consider this to override my rights to reject the vehicle. If I should decide to resile from my rejection of the vehicle then I would put this in writing to that effect.

Therefore, I kindly request that you provide a prompt response within 14 days, clearly outlining the process for receiving a refund and the arrangements for facilitating the return of the vehicle.

Additionally, I expect Big Motoring World to take full responsibility for coordinating the return of the vehicle. In the event that any expenses are incurred by me during this process, I anticipate that Big Motoring World will promptly reimburse me.

I trust that you will handle this matter with the seriousness it deserves, acknowledging my rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and promptly addressing the refund and return of the vehicle in accordance with the law.

Yours sincerely,

 

[dx100uk]

dont forget to send it via a post office and get a free proof of posting. 1st class stamp is all thats needed.

the V5C is not your problem.

dx

[BankFodder]

A bit too much kindly and a bit too much trust but other than that it's fine

[Mumwhoruns]

Noted on the kindness...have removed that.

 Otherwise am I missing anything that needs to be added or included in the envelope aside from our garage report, photos of damage, copy of past MOTs listing previous fail and advisories (our garage report also talks to the fact of timing between MOTs when its likely it was off-road).

Many thanks for your help. I intend to post recorded and signed for to both the head office and the office for complaints, as well as by email to the complaints department.

Is that enough?

Quick question on my car that was part exchanged.

Presumably its already gone to auction or a breakers, what do I do/ask about reimbursement of that vehicle/amount that I received towards the full purchase price. 

The new car was purchased for £15,500 (with 299 admin fee on top). Our part ex was £1000

Thanks

[BankFodder]

When it is eventually settled – you will get your cash money back plus the part exchange car or else its value.
 

[Mumwhoruns]

Bit of an update for anyone who is interested. 

Today I sent the letter, along with the garage report, full diagnostic report and copy of the previous MOTs. I also included the invoice for the full inspection we had on the car so they can see it went in on 31/01/2024.

 I've sent a copy to the BMW complaints address and their registered office address - both sent recorded and signed for.

 Letter has been scanned in and I'll now be sending that via email to their complaints email, along with referencing the call my husband made to the complaints line yesterday.

The V5 arrived today so will make copies of that and the keys as advised and will take pics of the car to post on here.

I have photos from the garage but there are around 34 and without an explanation for each it would be hard include in what I already sent.  Also think the garage have had enough as I spent 1.5 hours yesterday while the mechanic typed out the report in lament terms of what the defects in the diagnostic meant.

We are meant to hear from BMW within 48 hours of the call my husband made yesterday.

I guess its just a waiting game now.

Thank you for all your advice and guidance

Just a further point I forgot..

.my bank (Barclays) would not allow a chargeback to be started as they said we have to have been told by BMW that they will not refund.

Another thing to wait on, however, as soon as we hear from them with excuses and requests to repair, then I should be able to get the charge back raised.

 

[BankFodder]

Frankly I would tell the bank that BMW had refused and would not put it in writing.

 

[Mumwhoruns]

I did think of that but annoyingly the lady wanted dates and details of phone call refusal or written, so I was a bit stumped. Once we get that phone call from BMW I'll get back on to the bank. Thank you!

[Mumwhoruns]

Newest update....

BMW received our email, which had included a copy of the written request for a refund.  

Surprise surprise, they want to fix the car.

No mention of a refund.

Clearly they have not read the letter properly or the accompanying garage report saying that the car should not be driven.

 Any advice on my next steps?

Here is the response to our letter requesting our refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

Quote

"Good Morning.

Thank you for your email dated 02/02/24 and for your patience while we’ve been investigating your complaint.

I am writing to let you know that we’ve completed our review of your recent complaint and this email is our response in relation to your complaint.

Your complaint

My understanding of your complaint is below:

You are experiencing concerns with your vehicle.

My findings

We apologise to hear of the concerns that you have advised us of.

We are able to get you booked into one of our service centres, in order to offer you a repair.

Our service centres are below:

Snodland (ME6 5SL)

Peterborough (PE1 5YB)

Cannock (WS11 1SL)

Leeds (LS27 0TS)

Next steps

If you would like me to finalise an appointment an one of our service centres, please let me know.

Kindest Regards,

 

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

On 02/02/2024 at 15:28, Mumwhoruns said:

my bank (Barclays) would not allow a chargeback to be started as they said we have to have been told by BMW that they will not refund.

Another thing to wait on, however, as soon as we hear from them with excuses and requests to repair, then I should be able to get the charge back raised.

off you go.....

[Mumwhoruns]

Even though BMW have not explicitly stated they won't refund? 

What should I respond to BMW...

should it be along the lines of "as stated previously in my email and our letter, our garage has said the car should not be driven and damage is too extensive for repair.

As such I am exercising my right to a refund under the Consumer Rights act 2015 and await details from you on the process for receiving payment' ?

[dx100uk]

i would ignore that from BMW for now.

go for the chargeback.

 

 

[Mumwhoruns]

Chargeback has been filed this afternoon.

Should I now respond to BMW reiterating the status of the car and reminding them of my request for a refund? That way there is paper trail and also evidence that I have been responsive to their efforts to resolve the situation?

Edited February 6 by Mumwhoruns
Further info added

[dx100uk]

34 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

i would ignore that from BMW for now.