Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

MET/DCBL ANPR PCN Claimform - no other paperwork i moved! - overstay - (346) Southgate Park, Stansted. CM24 IPY


Recommended Posts

PCN Sticky

1. Date of the infringement Allegedly 02 January 2020.

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] No idea, never received PCN letter.

3 Date received Never received. The letters of debt collecting - first at 18.01.2023

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No idea, never received PCN letter.

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No idea, never received PCN letter.

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No appeal. Never received the PCN letter.

7 Who is the parking company? MET Parking Services

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Southgate Park, Stansted CM24 1PY

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA Logo at bottom of letter.

 

Court Sticky:

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil national business centre, Northampton NN12LH

Name of the Claimant :     MET Parking Services Ltd       

Claimants Solicitors: DCB legal Ltd

Date of issue – 21/11/2023

Date for AOS - 10/12/2023

Date to submit Defence - 24/12/2023

What is the claim for .

1.The defendant (D)is indebted to the claimant (C)for a parking charge issued to vehicle LE**G** at (346) Southgate Park, Stansted, CM24 1PY.

2.The PCN were issued on  02/01/2020.

3.The defendant is pursued as the driver of the vehicle for breach pf the terms on the signs (the contract). Reason: Overstay.

4.In the alternative the defendant is pursued as the keeper pursuant to POFA 2012, Schedule 4.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £170 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages.

2. Interest rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £.01 until judgement or sooner payment.

3. Costs and court fees.

What is the value of the claim? £170

Amount Claimed £225.60

court fees £35

legal rep fees £50

Total Amount £310.60

Have you moved since the issuance of the PCN?  Yes

Did you receive a letter of Claim With A reply Pack wanting I&E etc about 1mth before the claimform?  No

Hi All,

Sure this won't come as a surprise to you all, but another victim of the shoddy MET Parking Services and the ridiculous parking scenario at the Starbucks/McDonalds parking area near Stansted Airport.

New story - I read a lot of yours but I have not seen one as mine.

I bought myself a house end of December 2021, and this January I got a Debt Recovery Notice about an alleged infraction on 02 January 2020, the vehicle mentioned I was the keeper at the time and the vehicle itself has been scrapped on the 29 November 2020.

I tried to call the number but there was no customer service, only call-to-pay line. Also the letter stated I cannot dispute the charge and next time to dispute it will be in court I thought it is a scam and ignored it until last week I got the Claim Form for County Court.

Thanks,

Worazz

 

 

2023-04-04 DCBl letter + Claimform.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Nicky Boy changed the title to MET Parking Services - Southgate Park, Stansted - Claim Form
  • dx100uk changed the title to MET/DCBL ANPR PCN Claimform no other paperwork i moved! - overstay Southgate Park, Stansted

Thank you Dave, yes I have been reading a lot, but as you already mentioned mine is court one for some reason.

Yes, the CPR request - printed and sent after completing the AOS online, as per dx's instructions.

 

And yeah the full timeline had me scrapping the vehicle and moving to new place in between the date of alleged contravention and receiving first "debt recovery" letters. To none of them did I respond as all of them said that I cannot dispute the charge as seen in the letter attached.

02/01/2020 - alleged contravention

29/11/2020 - scrappage of mentioned vehicle that I was still the registered keeper of and V5 had my address of the time on it since DVLA was reaching me and they had my details from them it should be correct

02/02/2022 - I move to my new place

18/01/2023 - first letter of debt recovery to my new address

21/11/2023 - letter of claim raised to county court

Funny enough I never used that parking, since I didn't see the pictures (the PCN or any reminder was never sent to my address in the first place, on the 18/01/2023 it was literally the first contact)

I cannot even take a look whether it was my housemate as he sometimes borrowed my car, but then again I checked my emails and everything and on 01/01/2020 I was flying into the country back from holiday and was landing at Luton London Airport so me myself definitely had no business in Stansted area.

I cannot even check for mercy period, whether that was actually my car or reg clone, nothing, as I never had that letter in my hands, sadly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • dx100uk changed the title to MET/DCBL ANPR PCN Claimform no other paperwork i moved! - overstay - Southgate Park, Stansted

PCN Sticky update - I have received copies today

1. Date of the infringement 02 January 2020

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 08 January 2020 generated, never received, technically.

3 Date received Never received. The letters of debt collecting - first at 18.01.2023

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No.

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, CCTV and ANPR, but it's literally just plates and lights of the vehicle.

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No appeal. Never received the PCN letter, because the car was registered to my old address.

7 Who is the parking company? MET Parking Services

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Southgate Park, Stansted CM24 1PY

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA Logo at bottom of letter.

...........................

my defence needs to be posted by this Sunday, the 24th of December 2023.

I did receive a package today from dcb legal, please see the contents attached.

Apart from all those below, there is a lot of photos of their signs and their location on site and copy of their contract with the landowners with redacted information they found irrelevant. I can add those if needed.

Now in terms of the address on the PCN letter

- it is the place I used to live for a year after I bought the car, but I moved in Sept 2019, 4 months before the alleged contravention.

I phoned DVLA looking to get information for which address the car was registered to at the time, and the call centre gave me information that the car is not only registered to my address two places back (the one I lived at before 04/09/2019) but also I am still registered keeper of this SORNed vehicle, they never got the info about scrappage.

Guess this is what I got for sending V5C after moving via post, especially since I only noticed I don't have it when I was sending it for scrap, but scrap guys said they don't need it, so I was not too fussed, never would have thought I didn't have a copy,

I went through all of my documents and it is not there, because I sent mine out and it was lost in the post, and I do not have any proof of postage, as this is just V5C address change, and also that apparently scrap guys don't let DVLA know that they are scrapping a vehicle.

And the photos from CCTV and ANPR look like my plates, the shape of lights seem like my car as well, but no idea who was the driver at the time and if this is actually my car, as I mentioned before I flew in to Luton airport on 01.01.2020 in the evening after sleeping off a New Year's party abroad, not a chance it was me at Stansted on the 02.01.2020 at 05:42AM.

First and foremost since the defence submit date is on the weekend I need to upload it before 4pm tomorrow (Friday, the 22nd of December 2023).

Second

if I prove that I have moved before as I have an email of change to the address of the car for car insurance policy, I think I could get my address history in terms of DVLA for my driving license, and my rent agreement and stuff, as much as my V5C was lost in post, would that prove it that the letters could not be delivered as neither myself nor the car lived at the address that was there with DVLA and would tank the case straight away?

Thanks to that I know the exact date of moving - it was 18/10/2019 - that is when I moved away from the address the letters went to and changes all of my banks, insurance, driving license and V5C. As mentioned, all was well and apparently my V5C sent off with change of address never made it.

Unfortunately road tax emails don't have my address, so they cannot show that I moved.

I also spoke to my housemate of the time - it is highly probable he was driving his guests from the States who came round for New Year's using my car and it would make sense that it made an appearance at Stansted in early morning hours on the 2nd when I was sound asleep.

I finished taking photos of the rest of the package that came in today.

The last few pages that are photos of the contract they came in such great quality I believe just to make it harder for any Defendants.

I will be with you guys in the morning, drafting the defence, sorry I came back only tonight just as the deadline draws within less than a day, I was occupied with my divorce case, quite more costly than this one.

No idea when those photos were taken, 2020 or now.

 

DCBL CPR Return inc full contract with T&Cs.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks dx,

But 33 days is on 24th of December, the POC was issued on 21st of November , 33 days run this Sunday, so I need to post my defence by 4pm today, Friday (22nd), right?

The PCN states overstay, so does the POC.

I got copies of PCN via CPR, please see the attachments in #14 and #15 (maybe a merge there as well, sorry - the time limit on edit is very short)

I will read on SAR, but can I throw it in on the same day I post my defence?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • dx100uk changed the title to MET/DCBL ANPR PCN Claimform - no other paperwork i moved! - overstay - (346) Southgate Park, Stansted. CM24 IPY

I checked my moving date, the processing times for V5C change, etc.

I moved on the 18 October 2019, which is 10 weeks prior to the alleged contravention date, I changed my car policy, my Road Tax Direct Debit details, sent off my driving license and V5C via post,  DVLA reserves 6 weeks before starting any proceedings in case V5C gets lost in post,

this gives me another 4 weeks in which I have to start getting a new copy, before I can change the address using the new V5C, which can arrive from them in any time between days to weeks, which again can take up to 6 weeks after I send it off with new address, the online service to change the address only became available in June 2020, I had no other way to do that than send it off by post.

I believe this would be me completing my due diligence and removes my fault from them receiving wrong address for the PCN on the date of alleged contravention. Also the debt collectors got my correct address 3 years later without any problems apparently.

At the same time the contract they sent over has different post code (CM24 1AA) and name for the parking then the one on POC (CM24 1PY) and google returns two different sites around the airport

reading into the forum, I know to be as generic as possible, I took the template and commented on it, please see below:

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle]. 

Yep, turns out I still am, after the phonecall, and because my V5C that I sent was lost it is still registered to my old address, even though the DVLA on reg query will return that the vehicle no longer exists, because it was scrapped on 29 November 2020… can I change is to 'was at the date of alleged contravention'?

 2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

I did not, it is perfectly possible that my housemate was there - could I transfer it to him now :D :D 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

They did provide the contract so this doesn’t stand, does it?

 4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

I did not, as I was not the one to enter that contract in the first place

 5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

That is true, the amount on debt recovery letters and following is £170, and not £100, or the ‘offer’ of £60.

 6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

I was reading into the contract and apart from different site name, different post code, the letter they attach 'Landowner authority' which proceeds to mention they are redacting some information for commercial sensitivity they also state and I quote:

As can be seen from the extract from the contract held with Tabacon Stansted 2 Ltd this agreement has commencement date of 1 November 2013 [...]

You turn to the next page and there is scan of the contract says commencement of 01/11/2013 but the signing on it is 03/09/2014, loose 10 months later.

Also the paragraphs for nature and scope of services, commencement and duration and enforcement activities of the contract on a separate page with entirely different font than the contract don't have a date on them, definitely from a different contract,

at the same time those paragraphs are doubled and are different in wording than respective paragraphs of T&Cs which are dated 2009 so belong to a different contract - also T&Cs only show Client, never naming the client,

this is definitely from a different contract as it was drawn 5 years prior to signing of the one about 'Starbucks Carpark, Stansted Amenity Area, A120, Stansted Airport, CM24 1AA' and not '(346) Southgate Park, Stansted CM24 1PY'

the front page is definitely from some kind of contract regarding the site that might be the site in question, but the rest is loosely thrown in, possibly not even relevant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for all of this until now, I guess the real show might start in 2024, right?

Should the claim be in any way shape or form dismissed I will let you know here and I am definitely putting down support for the site, but in the new year as mentioned above I have some tough financial dealings at the moment.

No email, the letter will come in it's due time I guess, but the site shows it all processed:

Your acknowledgment of service was received on 06/ 12/ 2023 at 16:05: 11
Your defence was submitted on 22/ 12/ 2023 at 12:20:31
Your defence was received on 22/ 12/2023 at at :05:33

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Dave,

This came through mail today - attachment.

Small Claims Track application copy and the letter I took a photo of.

Do I call them for doodoo and giggles?

they might want to settle for them paying me 30 quid for all the printing and postage I did?

I mean most likely nothing will happen, but should I explore the option?

I might tell you guys what I hear over there and so for any future caggers it will be of help?

 

2023-12-29 DCB(L) client going ahead..pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Good evening everyone,

 

I got the deadline to send back N180, it's 19.02.2024.

 

Quick question - do I check section D - the Suitability for determination without hearing? And do I put anything special in section E, or only 1 witness as myself there?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you,

 

I am a bit overwhelmed as I am occupied by my divorce and custody proceedings, which is getting more and more complex, work change on top of it, I didn't even notice January ending, sorry.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Dave,

 

I gave

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/464351-met-pcn-awaiting-for-starbucks-to-open-20-minute-stay-southgate-park-stansted/#comments 

a thorough read and seems that accidently PDFs with contracts I left earlier in this thread helped get some new angle at MET & site 246 with their extortion procedures.

I don't have a date for my court hearing yet but there are so many points that invalidate the claim I feel like a child in the candy store with a day pass all I can carry in my hand.

I also asked my housemate who was likely the driver on that day if he has probably used the card on that day which would prove beyond any doubt I was not the driver and combined with non-enforceability for just the keeper and invalidation over the charge not being handled by the state as per airport bylaws it looks absolutely incredible.

I will try emailing them, but since on my PCN they state it was Overstay and it's from 2020 I guess Eurogarages or Starbucks won't do anything and also if they do would it impact the Claim that is already on Small Claims Track?

**Also a question - the N180 they used is outdated one and is missing one section - is this still valid correspondence to the Court that way?

I know it's early but I'd like to thank all of the admin team and fellow Caggers for this joint resolution producing effort.

I also learned a lot as I was reading through it, which is even more valuable.

I will wait to see if the claim itself will be dropped before going to a hearing if not I will draw statement for the courtroom and put it here so it isn't too naive or doesn't have any other errors.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Just checked wisniawy thread and to be fair I am roughly on the same ground, different debt recover company, but all the same arguments. I'll wait, maybe my next postcard will be of similar contents.

Also dx got an interesting point, especially since when you go over the contract I attached that I got from them it has full wording from 2009, page with names and such dates 2013 and is signed in 2014...

Also another question - there are CCTV photos of the car entering and leaving but it's pitch black - since Claimant carries the burden of proof - shouldn't that be enough to dismiss the claim as it could have been any of thousands drivers possible? Or since it cannot even be estabilished wheter or not that was in fact the car I was registered keepr of - could have been a different vehicle, cloned plates - would that put the requirement of proof on claimant there?

Link to post
Share on other sites

LFI 

what I meant it was 100% not me, that I am sure, and is not a strategy to try and lie about it, I was barely alive from new years party flying in on last flight to Luton on the night of the 1st, no chance I would drive myself to Stansted at 4 AM on 2nd,

might have been my former housemate in my car, as I mentioned before and possibly it was him after the brief conversation we have had (but yeah, could still be cloned plate).

It was absolutley, definitely not me, so yeah, I definitely know it was not me in that car park, not that night, not ever, I simply don't use Stansted at all nor have I travelled that way. And the thing is the picture has ONLY the plate and rough shape of car lights,

where one could argue whether or not that is model/make of the same car I was the registered keeper of and that is why I am talking to my former housemate whether it was him and maybe he used his card while being there I could show receipt with a different name to confirm I had nothing to do with my car being there, should that actually be my car and not cloned plate one.

Interestingly the contract handed down in the mail I got from MET representation is a contract between them and Tabacon, not Aurora, Aurora Group has been created in 2018 and deals in energy and Aurora (just Aurora) has been created in 2010 and dissolved in June 2023 dealing in non-financial management, unless it's a yet different Aurora. See below.

This below is what I got from Stansted Enquiries:

"Good morning,


Thank you for contacting Stansted Airport. By way of introduction, my name is Camara and I am the case manager for your feedback submission. Should you wish to respond to this email, please ensure that you respond directly, maintaining the subject line.

Our Byelaws do not cover this land as it falls outside of MAG ownership. 
 
This area is owned and managed by the company Aurora. Regrettably, we do not have any contact information for the owner of this land.

Apologies we cannot be of further assistance on this occasion.


Kind regards,


Camara


Customer Feedback Team
3rd Floor, B Block
Enterprise House, Bassingbourn Road
London Stansted Airport
CM24 1QWservlet.ImageServer?oid=00D0Y000000shjG&esid=018Sh000003THa3&from=ext

"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...