I'm Drowning in Debt - Please Help ?

[fairydee]

Hello Everyone,

 

I am a brand new member so please bear with me! I joined because I desperately need help from people who know what they are talking about and are sense in the middle of all my chaos!

 

As my title says, I am drowing in a sea of debt at the moment, after my husband and I recently separated. I have three children to support and am being bombarded by various companies with regards to debts.

 

I did contact the Consumer Credit Counselling Service a couple of years ago, who helped me at the time and my husband and I were paying £1 a month towards debts held with Abbey National one direct through them and the other through Moorcroft. To be honest everything was fine until we separated and I missed a couple of payments.

 

Last week I received a Intended Notice of Litigation from Moorcroft, I phoned them and in panic agreed to make a payment of £50 before the following Wednesday, when I got off the phone I sat down and realised I couldn't afford this so wrote them a letter enclosing my finance budget showing them I could not afford the £50 agree, I also enclosed £5.00 as a goodwill payment, as this is what I could afford. This morning I received THE Notice of Litigation demanding that I pay the £2,479.94 payment in full otherwise it will go to court and I will have to pay an additional - £80.00 Solicitors Costs, £111.00 Court Fees and £25.00 Further Solicitors Costs.

 

I am now not sure what to do? I tried phoning them straight away and the vioce message said they could not take any calls at the moment, I have until the 28th December to pay, what do I do?

 

This isn't my only debt problem but is the most recent correspondence I have received. I would sincerely be grateful for any advice, I am not a brain surgeon so please if you could keep it simple I would be forever in your debt.

 

Thank you so much and im glad I found you!

[dollies01]

Hiya and welcome

My advice would be, firstly don't panic, you aren't alone with this drowning feeling and there are people here that can help get you on the road to recovery.

I would personally send Moorecroft this letter:

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a cheque made out for a £1 2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defense to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

send Abbey a S.A.R. request to see if you have any charges you can reclaim and thus reduce the debt.

Stop discussing your accounts on the phone with anybody, simply tell callers you are not prepared to do this and will be communicating through letter alone, that way you cant be bamboozled into agreeing to things you cant afford, and you will gather all evidence should you need to go to court.

These actions, will in effect put the debt in dispute, which will stop anyone taking further action until its resolved.

I hope this helps

Im sure others will be able to advice other things that you could do

Please enjoy Christmas

Don't let em grind you down!

 

[fairydee]

Thank you so much dollies, I know it sounds stupid but what is an S.A.R? I think ive got a lot to learn!

 

Best Wishes

[dollies01]

You need to read through the F.A.Q's and read as many threads as you can, you can find the S.A.R. letter in the library of templates. Nothing is going to happen over the next few days, because of the holidays, so spend as much time as you can reading, knowledge is power! Get your letter off to Moorcroft as soon as you can though.

[fairydee]

Thank you so much ! I have just typed it out and will post it today, together with the £1 postal order.

 

I will let you know what happens, and will read up on everything I can!

 

Have a wonderful Christmas and Thank You again!

 

*Fairy*

[Turnaround]

To expand and explain dollies01 excellent advice.

 

The CCA request to Moorcroft will place the account on hold until they supply the documents requested, it also means they can’t take any further action on the account until the dispute is setled. If after 12 days (+2 for administration) they haven’t supplied them then the debt is unenforceable, if after a further month they still haven’t produced them then they have committed an offence. They then require the permission of the court to further enforce and pursue the debt.

 

The SAR request to Abbey will provide all your personal data regarding Abbey and allow you to calculate and claim back your illegal charges to reduce the debt.

 

In conclusion, Moorcroft can’t and more than likely won’t take you to court if the debt hasn’t been properly executed in the first place, simply because it would cost them to much and they would loose.

 

They will threaten, but if you read the letters carefully its all "we may" and "might’s"

 

Post details of your other problems and we will send the tide back.

[fairydee]

Thank you so much, I feel a lot better now, I have sent off both letters and will breathe a sigh of relief until after Christmas now when I will have to tackle the other major financial pain in my life, Yes Car Credit and their lovely friends Direct Auto Finance, but hey ho that's another story! when I will definately be asking for advice about them but will deal with one thing at a time. I can't thank you enough and I wish you all a very, very HAPPY CHRISTMAS xxxx

[seylectric]

What really annoys me is that this is proof of the sort of distress that people get into without any sort of consideration for their circumstances.

 

Follow the advice above, but don't worry too much, they can' do a lot and you are not going to go to prison or lose your home or anything. If it all gets too technical, take your time to respond (this buys you some time) and keep paying bits off, if it's only a quid a week.

 

In the meantime you have found THE forum to be in for good sound advice, take your time, read the advice all over this forum but if you are stuck on anything or panicking over their next letter don't keep it in, post it on this board, that's why we are ALL here in the first place!

 

Hope this helps, relax a bit and enjoy the holidays. Back to business soon but we'll all get there together.

[fairydee]

Just an update on the situation and to thank you all for your advicemy family and I did have a Happy Christmas and am now looking towards a new year a little bit more positively. Happy New Year to All of You!

 

Anyway, down to business I sent off the letter to Moorcroft and this morning got a Statement of Account.

 

What happens now, in the letter I requested :

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to.

which has not been received, only the statement.

 

I am not sure what the state of play is now with Moorcroft, does this mean they still can't do anything unless they supply me with the original agreement?

 

This sum was an overdraft which meant that I never signed anything and was only a verbal agreement over the telephone (as far as I remember) I would be grateful for any info.

 

Thank you so much!

 

*FAIRY*

[ecobabe]

they can't do anything without the agreement, they have only partially complied, but just leave it until the 12 working days expires

[me_n_my_kids]

do overdrafts fall into this category? even when most are arranged over the phone with nothing signed??

[seylectric]

It's an interesting issue - I've always said that it shouldn't be possible to set up a direct debit over the phone but it is!

 

The bottom line is that they need to provide the OP with a copy of the agreement, if they don't or can't they have a very weak case. Just don't admit to anything and make sure YOU are asking the questions.

 

If it helps, most DCA's I have experienced don't take a blind bit of notice of any letters you send them, they just keep pushing for a settlement because at the end of the day that's how they earn their money - they are paid on results, so they have no interest in anything other than getting the money from you.

 

In practice don't worry too much about their deadlines, they can't take you to court without the permission of their clients - this will probably take at least another couple of weeks but you will probably get at least two or three more "final demands" before anything happens. Even if they go for a CCJ - which they won't if you let them know in no uncertain terms that the acount is in dispute, they won't risk losing in court - you still have at least another month before any hearing takes place.

 

Even if it gets to the hearing stage you don't neccessarily have to attend court, but it's not like a magistrates court and often they don't attend either because of the costs (county courts only award very limited costs) but it's worth doing so, I once got a debt written off because the other party didn't attend and I simply told the judge that I had never heard of them before in my life and didn't owe anybody any money! Case dismissed! Even if the judgement goes in their favour the court will accept a repayment plan, this can be as little as £1 a week although you will have a county court judgement against your name which makes it harder to get credit, or costs you more but in your position you probably can't get much anyway and that's not such a bad thing - I'm "in the same boat" and I'm past caring to be honest!

 

In the meantime stick with dollies01's plan of action, you could get the whole lot wiped out on a legal technicality, and as I said most DCA's tend to disregard anything you send them probably on the assumption that you do not know how to follow it through! If they haven't complied to the CCA request within the timescale you're laughing! I'm not too clued up on this course of action myself so far but I plan to use it to good effect this year and possibly wipe out a few grand of debt myself.

[fairydee]

I am feeling much for positive about this and am looking forward (in a strange kind of way) to the fight! I have a few more that I should look into but will sit down and sort out which one's within the next week.

 

I will keep you updated, but thanks again...you will get fed up with me constantly saying thank you! I wish I had found this site ages ago!

 

Take care

*FAIRY*

[seylectric]

Good luck, as I said earlier you're in the right place for the best advice (please bear in mind that what I post is just my opinion, I'm no expert) but I think the main message is DON'T BE A VICTIM!

 

Remember it it NOT an offence to owe money, most of us on here do or we would not be here but in many cases the money you are being asked to pay is not always due (e.g. illegal charges etc.) and it is often these companies who are commiting an offence by harrassing us in this way for money they are not necessarily legally entitled to.

 

Never agree to anything, have a good look around this site, especially the help threads and don't let it take over your life - there are answers, but you must fight for your rights. It's all just paperwork, nobody is going to chop your legs off however daunting it may seem at times.

 

DO keep posting with your progress and DO keep asking questions if you are not sure of your next step, there are plenty on here who can advise and I repeat, that's why we are all here, to help each other!

[fairydee]

Thank you for your advice, I was working out yesterday why I have got myself in this mess in the first place, and you a right it is mainly bank charges and additional charges that these companies inforce. It started because I was late for a payment initially and then this had a knock on effect with everything, because I was charged for having an anauthorised overdraft and the rest is history!

 

It makes me so angry that this has happened because of them and I am determined that I am not going to let this go I am going to help myself and hopefully others in a similar situation.

 

Best wishes

*FAIRY*

[fastlad]

hi

as every one says dont panick try these peaple they are realy good,they will give advice and free sample letters etc

national debtline 0808 808 4000

National Debtline, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call 0808 808 4000

you can alo phone them and talk to experianced peaple;)

[fairydee]

Hello Again,

 

Just an update, but need a little advise on where to next?

 

This morning I received another letter from Moorcroft ~ Pre-Court Division

 

Staying that I had not contacted them to discuss repayment for this debt, we require immediate full payment or an acceptable offer of repayment to prevent any further action.

In order to stop more serious action we are prepared to accept payments of £120.00 per month, if you do not wish to take advantange of this repayment opportunity you must make a payment using the payment slip attached. On receipt of the first payment we will forward further slips to you.

Unless a payment is received by 10.00 am 11/01/07 we may recommend court proceedings to be commenced against you without further notice.

Such action could incur you in further costs and may also affect your future credit rating. It is therefore in your best interests to give this matter your immediate attention.

A.J. Martin

Debt Recovery Manager

So now what shall I do, do I send them a letter making them an offer, there is no way I can afford £120.00 a month, possibly about £10.

 

on the 24th December I sent off the letter stating that I do not acknowledge any debt to your company etc.

 

And this is the response I received.

 

What do I need to do now, I have a very strange feeling I won't get any of the information I asked for, I have proof of postage.

 

I would be grateful for any thoughts from you.

 

Best wishes

*Dee*

[seylectric]

Unless a payment is received by 10.00 am 11/01/07 we may recommend court proceedings to be commenced against you without further notice.

 

Such action could incur you in further costs and may also affect your future credit rating.

 

First of all ask them why they are lying and point out that it is illegal to do so. If "court proceedings are commenced" it will do nothing to affect your credit rating - that only happens if the judgement is made against you and that is what the letter should state.

 

Write back stating that you HAVE contacted them, enclose a copy of the original letter (do keep copies of everything and send everything at least by recorded delivery). Offer them £10 a month adn tell them that is all you can afford. Point out that you will be offering the same amount if the matter goes to court, that you will be providing the court with a personal budget sheet and the additional costs involved of a court hearing will only mean that it takes you longer to replay the debt. They used to send out paymernt booklets, ask for one.

 

The whole point is you might not be making much of a dent in the total debt but it buys you more time. As long as you keep corresponding they are unlikely to take the matter to court, especially if they think there is little to gain from it.

 

In the meantime remember to bear in mind what turaround said, and keep up with the S.A.R. line of dealing with the issue - and don't worry!

[gizmo111]

Before you offer them anything sit down and do your budget. Then work out your monthly surplus after essentail bills have been paid, and work out how much you can afford to pay each creditor on a pro rata basis, when you have done this write back to them and every other creditor with your offer. If you cannot afford £10 don't offer it - only offer what you can realistically afford, even it is only a token £1 per month.

[seylectric]

Good advice, I was only really suggesting £10 as a sort of ball-park figure but as gizmo says don't offer what you haven't got.

[gizmo111]

Hi Sey - not suggesting your comments were wrong - just fairy said she could at apush maybe afford £10.

[seylectric]

No, that's fair enough, what you posted is absolutely correct without question.

[dollies01]

But isnt the debt they are trying to bully you into paying the same debt that is now in dispute? or am I reading it wrong?

If its the same debt, remind Moorcroft that as the debt is in dispute, any further proceedings they make against you will be strongly defended and that you will not be making any further payments until the dispute is solved.

They have 12 working days plus one calandar month to comply with your cca request, after which time the debt is unenforceable, until such times as they can comply, by which time they have to ask the courts permission to chase you for it.

Hope this helps........tis just my opinion!

[ecobabe]

when does your 12 working days run out? I'm not saying don't pay anything, but be careful because surely to agree to pay anything would fly in the face of the CCA? even if the worst came to the worst and they did start court action(which i don't think they will) if you defended on the basis that there was no agreement and you had requested it etc then it would be thrown out. I would send a copy of your original CCa letter with a covering letter saying that it was sent to them on dd/mm/yy along with £1 and quote po/cheque no and the debt is currently in dispute and you will defend on that basis.

[ecobabe]

just reread your post, given that it was only posted on the 24th it is probably still in their system cos you are only at about 4/5 working days so far. so I would do as I suggested but send it to whoever the person/dept is that wrote to you threatening you. I would also send it special delivery on Mon morning then you know they've got it on Tues, it's about £3 if you can afford it .