Lowell/overdales claimform - old vanquis card debt out of nowhere***Claim Discontinued***

[confused.com]

Good evening ladies and gents,

 

I am stumped by a sudden Northhampton CCJ claim from Lowell over a Vanquis credit card from over 4 years ago. I've probably done myself no favours either by not researching a lot before responding to court papers!

 

I received a court N1SDT claiming a debt to Vanquis but was legally assigned to Lowell portfolio I Ltd in 2019. This was the first i've heard from Lowell or Overdale solicitors representing them. I did a bit of research and realised there was some documents I should have received prior to a CCJ request and also that they haven't provided anything in the way of proof that I owe a debt.

 

i've already legitimately responded to the court papers saying I dispute the claim as it's the first i've heard from Lowell until the claim form and that I have not had a chance to request a copy of the credit agreement and would like to do so. I'm pretty sure it's the same Vanquis card where I sent them a prove it letter years ago and they disappeared.

 

They have responded a "without prejudice save as to costs" letter saying they receive a copy of my defence where I am disputing the claim on the grounds of not receiving any paperwork in respect of the claim and not had opportunity to request a copy of the credit agreement.

 

They then list a date of 05/2015 on or around account opening (inaccurate). Last payment in 02/2017 (inaccurate) and have requested documents from the original creditor and will forward them to me. I checked my credit report I see a Lowell debt with a default date 05/2018 nothing from Vanquis? Surely they wouldn't take 15 months to default a credit card? They have however been advised by Lowell to continue the court action and receive directions questionnaire which I have received today.

 

its a letter and a form saying they have agreed to mediation and would I like to settle direct they invite me to put forward a sensible offer.  The form doesn't even have the box ticked they want mediation. It doesn't tick yes or no to the small claims track. It simply says they request the venue of the hearing to me a telephone one which they will endeavour to arrange. The rest is blank/empty boxes.

 

What is my next best move? I don't think I kept a copy of the original prove it letter I sent to Vanquis nor can I find record they cashed my £1 cheque. I do remember telling them to delete my phone number from the records due to the sheer amount of phone calls they were bombarding me with. It seems like they complied and sold the debt to Lowell without informing me of anything.

 

TIA for help

Edited September 18, 2021 by dx100uk
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[AndyOrch]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Topic title updated.

 

Please read the following link which explains the process and then copy the Q,s and your responses back here for further advice.

 

Regards

 

Andy.

 

 

 

 

.

[dx100uk]

and pop up the defence you filed too please..

 

sounds like the std letter lowell send on all court claims after a defence is filed.

[confused.com]

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? The claim is for the sum of 2660 due by the defendant under an agreement regulated by the CCA74 for a vanquis account with and an account number zzzzz. The defendant failed to maintain contractial agreement and a default notice was served under s.87(1) of CCA74 which has not been complied with. Debt was legally assigned to claiment 09/19 notice of which has been given to the defendant. The claim includes statutory interest under S69 of CCA84 at a rate of 8% per annum blah blah.

 

What is the total value of the claim? 3070
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? No

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Vanquis credit card
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Lowell shows a debt shows but not matching any date they say the claim relates to
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Lowell debt purchaser
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Yes
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? I couldn't afford the minimum payment due to family circumstances. They would just add charges and interest on and wind me up by phone every couple of days.
 

What was the date of your last payment? Lowell say 02/2017 but i'm unsure

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? I did send prove it letter to Vanquis years ago and they went away.
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? They never asked just rang every few days and asked for payments and more payments.

 

My defence was simply I have not received any papers relating to this claim from Lowell until this claim form. I have not had chance to contact them to request a copy of the credit agreement and would like to do.

[AndyOrch]

Thanks and a copy of your defence if you have it to hand. Do not complete the DQ just yet until we have had chance to digest all the above.

What date have you been informed to return the DQ ?

[confused.com]

My defence was posted at the bottom of the other post. My defence was simply I have not received any papers relating to this claim from Lowell until this claim form. I have not had chance to contact them to request a copy of the credit agreement and would like to do. I haven't received my copy of the DQ yet? I've received Lowells copy only as per the OP missing boxes and they want mediation or a settlement.

[AndyOrch]

Whoops I missed that Thought it was just a general comment. 

 

 

 

.

[confused.com]

Yeah I probably messed up. I read stuff years ago about sending prove it letters but it's as far as I ever really got. Had no idea they can just sell a debt and someone else can come back years later with a CCJ without proof hoping to take a 3000 judgement on a debt they probably paid 300 for. Annoying.

[AndyOrch]

A bit late now but the following is an example the minimum we recommend when submitting a holding defence.

 

Defence

 

(1) The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature.The Defendant Accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

(2) Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with XXXXXXX but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request.

 

(3) Paragraph 2 is noted. Although I have not retained a copy of it and I do not recall the precise details of the Default Notice I have requested a further copy from the claimant which they have yet to provide.

 

(4) Paragraph 3 is noted.  Although I have not retained a copy of it and I do not recall the precise details of the Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law and Property Act 1925 Section 136(1) and therefore requested a further copy from the claimant which they have yet to provide.

 

(5) Paragraph 4 is denied, as they claimant has yet to fully comply.

(6) On receipt of the claim form, the Defendant sent a request by way of a section 78 pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974, for a copy of the agreement, the Claimant has complied and proved a copy of the alleged agreement.

 

(7) A further request made by via CPR 31.14 to the Claimants solicitor, requesting disclosure of documents on which the Claimant is basing their claim. The Claimant has not complied, but has stated a general extension of time to retrieve the documents, to date nothing has been received.

 

(8) It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(A) Show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement and:

(B) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for and:

(C) Show the nature of the breach and evidence by way of a Default Notice Pursuant to section 88 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and:

(D) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

 

(9) as per Civil Procedure 16.5 it is expected that the claimants prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

(10) On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has a right to lay claim due to contraventions of section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

(11)  By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant at this time is entitled to the relief.

[confused.com]

Yeah I realise I probably put in a poor defence but this came as a suprise to me anyway. I looked on moneyclaim and I cannot add anything to defence now. So do I wait out this telephone hearing and dispute then on what?

[dx100uk]

Get a cca request and a cpr running asap?

 

 

if you use our enhanced google search box on this page

 

lowell claimform vanquis

 

Youll see 100's of like threads to get upto speed

[confused.com]

Cheers dx100uk i'll do the CCA (again) but who to send it to now? All through the solicitors I suppose. The CPR I will look straight into thanks

[dx100uk]

you haven't sent a cca request only a useless prove it letter.....????

 

..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

 

[AndyOrch]

What date must you file the DQ  ?

 

 

 

.

[confused.com]

dx100uk when I say prove it letter I meant a letter asking for a copy of the credit agreement with a £1 cheque. I never got a template or anything to do it i'd just read somewhere they had to stop chasing unless they could provide it. They never did but i've checked with bank this morning and the cheque was never cashed either. I'll do the proper template with a postal order to Lowell this time so I don't have to sign a cheque and recorded deliver it.

 

Andyorch i've no idea yet. I received Lowells DQ but haven't got my copy from the court yet.

[AndyOrch]

[confused.com]

Thanks for the help. I've done the template CCA request under S78 as it's a credit card and thats on it's way to Lowells 1st class recorded.

 

I've also done the template CPR request and sent by same to Overdales. I had to change the part where I haven't filed a defence yet because I have. But I checked the court claim online and nothing happened yet so I left in the part about it not yet being assigned to a track so will that be ok?

 

I also mentioned that I had asked Vanquis for the CCA some years ago but the request was ignored. They will probably say they never received it or can I prove a cheque was paid in or whatever which I can't but the main thing is it's off now recorded.

 

I suppose I just wait for my DQ to come from the court and any responses to come in from Lowell/Overdales and there's nothing else to do for now.

Edited September 7, 2021 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

brilliant you're now upto speed

read a few of those threads mind...

just remember that anything to vanquis previous is pretty immaterial now they've washed their hands of it., though of course could indicate why they sold it on...no CCA? 

[dx100uk]

opps hit return too quick..

 

if you look at the other threads ...

you'll find their next move might well be their letter that for want of another explanation tries to intimidate you into agreeing a cosent/tomlin order as their case is sooo strong...don't fall for it, it's a std letter they send in every case,

[confused.com]

Yes thanks to you and Andy i'm upto speed and less stressed.

 

Is there anything I can do about the weak defence I stupidly put in so fast? If I knew what I knew now i'd have said that Vanquis didn't supply the CCA so the debt was unenforceable from that point and asked them to stop proceedings.

 

When I said I never had chance to ask for the CCA I meant asking Lowell because I had no idea they had brought the debt.

 

Looking at the credit report it looks like they had it for years and Vanquis were probably already in the process of selling it when I put in my CCA to them they seem to have ignored it because they were already washing hands of it.

Edited September 7, 2021 by dx100uk
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[dx100uk]

your past dealing with vanquis re the CCA have no bearing upon the court claim no, other than a possible mention in your witness statement IF it ever gets that far.

 

it is certainly not any reason proceedings should not have been started nor continue.

[confused.com]

I was understanding that when I sent that request to vanquis years ago they should have ceased all activity on collection unless they proved the agreement first. Is that wrong?

 

Probably should have done it all recorded delivery but the burden is so much on us. Had no idea they could just ignore it, sell the debt and palm it off on some some other company to pursue years later!

 

The whole credit thing is a joke it tells me on creditkarma now that I need to take out a card to improve my rating . I don't think so that's exactly how vanquis did me over 4 years ago.

[dx100uk]

since credit file data was allowed to be 'sold' many co's pay for the data and then bundle it with offers.

yes credit 'repair' loans/cards are a sad myth and only remotely useful if you've had no running credit before that shows you can manage money...

 

equifax, experian and i think credit karna? (was noddle?) are the only 3 main agencies 

 

[confused.com]

Not sure on that one creditkarma shows more data like date of default I've also registered on Clearscore and it shows very similar but not date of default. On both mine it shows a very shady history like Lowell took over the debt but it doesn't show the previous good history just blanks for the years I paid. All seems very underhand and of course both those websites encourage taking on new agreements to boost score.

[AndyOrch]

Quote

I was understanding that when I sent that request to vanquis years ago they should have ceased all activity on collection unless they proved the agreement first. Is that wrong?

 

Unfortunately completely wrong...they are allowed to continue to chase (if its not statute barred) but they cant enforce the agreement in court whilst in default of said request.