German car shop in Leicester wont take car back 8 days after purchase.

[BankFodder]

We don't need to see the text messages – but you will have to be able to print them out and use them in your claim. Don't forget that at the end of the day it is for you to convince a judge that you are right and that the dealer is wrong.

You can certainly claim for car storage – but we will have to give the notice in your letter of claim. Also you will be able to claim for wasted insurance and tax.

Please will you start off reading about how to bring a small claim in the County Court. I've asked you to do this several times and it's important.

[Manxman in exile]

I may be mistaken (and apologies if I am) but the dealer isn't claiming it was a trade sale, is he?  In the exchange with him that you have posted he does refer to £4000 being "trade value", but nowhere does he claim your purchase was anything other than a consumer one.  Or maybe I'm missing something.  (I'm not saying you don't have a claim, but it would be best to be clear about what the trader is actually saying.)

 

You might want to redact the report from the Mercedes garage as it includes your name and address (and 'phone number?).

 

 

[Aga.misia]

Dealer saying I bought on trade terms. But I m not trader. 

 

I dont want return car becouse of value but its faulty. I mention value as I was told by local dealer that I overpaid alot

[dx100uk]

3 hours ago, Aga.misia said:

You viewed the car before purchasing and agreed (and signed)to purchase it on a trade basis. 

 

that alone imakes the sale void and trading standards would be VERY interested in them

a trader cannot make a trade sale to a member of Joe Public

fullstop.

 

nice you have it in writing...

[Aga.misia]

Thank you for all your support , mean alot to me 

 

Thats what I received just now by dealer , whats to do ? 

Good afternoon. We are still waiting for a reply to our last e-mail.  Please send us the picture and video evidence we have requested various times. Please note we already had a report done before we sold you the car so if you tamper with the vehicle in anyway to falsify faults we will know and we may pursue legal action against you. 

 

Kind regards 

 

German car shop.

 

 

 

I m so scared , any advice ? 

[BankFodder]

Ignore this stuff.

You have told us that you are happy to start legal proceedings – and if that's the case then please will you follow the advice to read up the steps on taking a small claim in the County Court.

You are becoming distracted both by the dealer and also by discussions on this thread.

I think it's about time you focused.

Quote

Dear XXX

 

letter of claim 

As you know, on XXX date you sold me a XXX model vehicle for XXX pounds. Within a very few days, the car displayed various defects and an inspection I have had carried out has confirmed a number of serious issues not the least of which are a brake system which is apparently one down to the metal. This may be a cause of the vibrations which I have previously described to you although this will need further investigation.

There has been substantial amount of correspondence between us and you are fully aware of the problems that there are with the vehicle that you sold me but for the avoidance of doubt I am sending you a second copy of the report which has identified the faults. I should point out that the faults contained in this list are simply those which are identified fairly quickly and they may well be others.

I have been advised not to drive the car because it is unroadworthy and also that there is a risk that the problems could get worse. I will not be driving the vehicle although I will be putting it through another MOT in order to get a better picture of the car's condition.

I have already written to you and pointed out that under the Consumer Rights Act I am entitled to a refund. You have refused to carry out your obligations under the Act and given a variety of excuses including that apparently the sale was a "trade sale" and therefore for some reason rather, you have no liability for selling a car in a dangerous and unroadworthy condition.

I require you to make arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to provide me with a refund. Please note that I have lost confidence in you and therefore I will not be prepared to release the vehicle to you until I have the refund. You can pay this to me by bank transfer or you can ask your delivery driver to pay me the cash.

If you do not collect the vehicle and refund me within 14 days of this letter and I shall start to add storage charges of £10 per day and furthermore I shall issue legal proceedings against you in the County Court without any further notice. These legal proceedings will include references to your statutory obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, your selling of an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence contrary to the Road Traffic Act and also unfair trading under the Contracts (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2008.

If you force me to take court action then I shall sue you for the reimbursement of the purchase price of the car, the accumulated storage fees, the ancillary losses which I have incurred – in particular in relation to insurance and tax plus interest which I understand is currently at 8%.

I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions about this. I've already used my best efforts to hold dialogue with you.

If you wish to have the car inspected by your own independent inspector then please let me know. I'm happy to accommodate any reasonable arrangement by appointment but you should understand that this must be done within the 14 day timescale and at my home because as I have said, at the end of 14 days I shall issue court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

 

Please check this proposed letter of claim.

Complete the missing information and repost here.

Let us know if there is anything that you want to add or take away

 

You will note that I have advised you not to drive the car anymore but to get a new MOT for it it so that we can understand more fully any defects.

You can drive it once for an MOT but after that do not drive it anymore.

Please let us know if there is anything in the letter of claim that you don't understand.

You must follow all the steps outlined in the letter of claim

[Aga.misia]

Thank you

Vibrations on idle are seperate thing probably not related to brakes , when I start up car or press brake vibrations inside car on seats and sterring wheel  appearing. 

Do I have to do MOT? 

Do I have to agree for his inspection ?I live far away from dealer  so I have to drive to his ? 

[BankFodder]

I think that doing an MOT is very important.

In terms of the inspection, I think that the letter of claim makes it very clear that the dealer has to make his journey to you or he has to appoint someone to come to you.

You don't need to go anywhere.

 

 

[Aga.misia]

"You bought the car and you knew there were faults with it, you agreed to buying it under trade terms, so please stop trying to think we are idiots".

 Thats his text message , can he sell me car on trade terms knowing I m not a trader ? 

 

[BankFodder]

Please ignore this kind of stuff from him.

 

Concentrate on the advice we are giving you.

 

We have referred to the trade sale in the letter of claim

 

I'm afraid  if you can't take control and stop being intimidated by this guy and his messages,  it will become very difficult

[Aga.misia]

The MOT has been done in february but previus owner did 20000 miles since them

Vibration on idle prpbably  will not be find on MOT  , only brakes . 

The current millage is about 170000

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

Please will you act on our advice and get the new MOT.

It is very important.

 

However, you can send the letter of claim off once we have agreed a final version and you are happy with it.

No need to wait for the MOT in order to send off the letter of claim.

 

It would be nice to send off the letter of claim tomorrow morning

 

[Aga.misia]

I m happy with letter , but I would remove word car not roadworthy as at the moment in report says - dangerous - suggestion not to drive

[BankFodder]

If it is dangerous than it is unroadworthy.

if the brakes are down on the metal then it's dangerous and unroadworthy.

It is very important to use this adjective – unroadworthy because that makes it an offence under the road traffic act.

[Aga.misia]

I will book mot this week.

How long will take process in court ? 

Also even If I win seller may not pay me and I have to enforce it ? 

[BankFodder]

If they don't defend it could be over in a month.

If they defend and it goes to mediation then 3 months.

If it goes to a hearing then 6 months.

 

Once you get judgement then enforcement will take about 1 month.

 

 

[Aga.misia]

I m just worried even if I win I will end up not getting money back as it is ltd company and the Dealer is not having anything what I said to him. So it will be extremly dificult 

I m.worried it may end up like below : 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid that is a risk that you will have to take but having looked at the company it seems to me to be not a big risk.

 

I'm very sorry but this is the kind of risk that you took when you bought a car at a long distance and paid by cash.

 

As I have said, I think the risk is fairly low but of course you will have to take a chance

 

 

 

 

[Aga.misia]

 

Thats advert info, I thought original price was 5450 f but looks it was bit more 5490 so I got it for 5430 - 60 f discount . 

The oil is black when my boyfriend checked so they didnt change it

MAKE	INFINITI
MODEL	Q50
REGNUMBER
PRICE	5490
YEAR	2015
MILEAGE	170000
Publication	PORTAL
TRADEFLAG	Trade
NAME	German Car Shop
ADTEXT	***RATED HIGHLY FOR OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE BY AUTO TRADER FOR 2020*** --- ***CALL US TODAY ON 07719460533*** --- ***NATIONWIDE DELIVERY AVAILABLE*** --- ***FULL DEALER FACILITIES AVAILABLE IN HOUSE*** --- ***LOW RATE FINANCE AVAILABLE, ALL TYPES OF CREDIT CONSIDERED FOR ACCEPTANCE, CALL OUR IN HOUSE FINANCE SPECIALIST TODAY FOR A QUOTE ON 07719460533*** (admin fees apply) --- ***RESERVE THIS VEHICLE TODAY WITH A MINIMUM HOLDING DEPOSIT OF ONLY £50*** (we can not guarantee the availability of ANY vehicle on your arrival without a holding deposit)   --- Infiniti Q50 2.2d Sport Auto (s/s) 4dr (EU5) --- Mileage 170k, MOT expires 28th February 2022, 9 recorded services with an oil and filter change to be provided by German Car Shop on purchase,   this vehicle comes with 2 keys, central locking and alarm, 19" alloy wheels, full leather interior trim with electric front seats and front heated seat option,   drives very well, clean and tidy, predominantly used for motorway journeys only,   in car touch screen entertainment system with radio and CD player, navigation media system, air conditioning with climate control, cruise control, parking sensors with reverse camera, adjustable head rests,   only 1 former keeper, great car throughout   --- WE WELCOME ANY PART EXCHANGE --- CALL US TODAY ON 07719460533.,   19in Alloy Wheels - 5 Triple Spoke Light, AM-FM Audio System with Single CD Player, Active Noise Control - ANC, Active Trace Control, Airbags - Curtain Front and Rear, Airbags - Front Hip-Thorax Side, Airbags - Front Passenger, Auto Dimming Rear View Mirror, Automatic Headlight Activation, Bluetooth for Mobile Connectivity, Climate Control - Dual Zone Adaptive with Auto-Recirculation, Comfort Pack, Cruise Control, Door Mirrors - Heated and Electrically Folding and Reverse Synchronisation, Drive Mode Selector, Drivers Power Lumbar Support, Dual Touch Screens - LCD VGA 8in and LCD VGA 7in, EBD - Electronic Brakeforce Distrubution, Fine Vision Meter with 5in TFT Colour Display, Front Fog Lights - LED, Fully Customisable Digital Enviroment, Heated Front Seats, I-Key with Smart Access and Enhanced Memory, Infiniti InTouch, Infiniti InTuition, Interior Trim - Kacchu Aluminium, LED Auto-Levelling Headlights, LED Auto-Levelling Headlights and Daytime Running Lights, Leather Steering Wheel and Gear Shift Lever, Parking Sensors - Front, Power Front Seat Adjustment with Memory, Push Button Ignition, Rain Sensing Wipers, Rear Lights - LED, Rear Parking Sensors, Rear View Camera, Seats - Front Sports, Ski Hatch, Steering - Direct Adaptive, Steering Pack, TCS - Traction Control System, TPMS - Tyre Pressure Monitor System with Individual Tyre Pressure Display, Twin Exhaust Tailpipes with Chrome Finisher, USB Connectivity, USB Port with iPod Connectivity, Ultrasonic Alarm System, VDC - Vehicle Dynamic Control, Voice Recognition System, Welcome Pack. 5 seats, Blue, DELIVERY - FINANCE - VEHICLE SERVICING - MOT - ALL AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST, £5,490
ATTENTION_GRABBER	FINANCE AVAILABLE - BIG SPEC

 

I hope this helps.

 

Kind Regards

 

Jessica

 

Auto Trader Consumer Team.

 

 

Dear German Cars

 

Letter of claim 

As you know, on 22 may 2021 date you sold me a Infinity Q50 model vehicle for 5430 pounds. Within a very few days, the car displayed various defects and an inspection I have had carried out has confirmed a number of serious issues not the least of which are a brake system which is apparently one down to the metal. This may be a cause of the vibrations which I have previously described to you although this will need further investigation.

There has been substantial amount of correspondence between us and you are fully aware of the problems that there are with the vehicle that you sold me but for the avoidance of doubt I am sending you a second copy of the report which has identified the faults. I should point out that the faults contained in this list are simply those which are identified fairly quickly and they may well be others.

I have been advised not to drive the car because it is dangerous and also that there is a risk that the problems could get worse. 
I have already written to you and pointed out that under the Consumer Rights Act I am entitled to a refund. You have refused to carry out your obligations under the Act and given a variety of excuses including that apparently the sale was a "trade sale" and therefore for some reason rather, you have no liability for selling a car in a dangerous and unroadworthy condition.

I require you to make arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to provide me with a refund. Please note that I have lost confidence in you and therefore I will not be prepared to release the vehicle to you until I have the refund. You can pay this to me by bank transfer or you can ask your delivery driver to pay me the cash.

If you do not collect the vehicle and refund me within 14 days of this letter and I shall start to add storage charges of £10 per day and furthermore I shall issue legal proceedings against you in the County Court without any further notice. These legal proceedings will include references to your statutory obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, your selling of an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence contrary to the Road Traffic Act and also unfair trading under the Contracts (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2008.

If you force me to take court action then I shall sue you for the reimbursement of the purchase price of the car, the accumulated storage fees, the ancillary losses which I have incurred – in particular in relation to insurance and tax plus interest which I understand is currently at 8%.

I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions about this. I've already used my best efforts to hold dialogue with you.

If you wish to have the car inspected by your own independent inspector then please let me know. I'm happy to accommodate any reasonable arrangement by appointment but you should understand that this must be done within the 14 day timescale and at my home because as I have said, at the end of 14 days I shall issue court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Aga xxx

 

[BankFodder]

You have missed out the part about the MOT. It's very important – and although it will cost extra, you will recover that if you bring the action.

If you have an MOT carried out and it fails then that will add a lot of power to your case. There is no downside to getting in MOT and I'm surprised that you want to penny pinch.

You seem to be very casual about the way you spend your money and now that we are trying to help you get your money back, you are suddenly being very careful about saving a few quid on an important piece of evidence.

[Aga.misia]

I m sorry .  I m just scared I will have to pay tax , insurance all year , car on driveway , and I will loose case or if win the dealer will not pay . Sorry have to put myself together as I m in bits

 

If fail mot , and I deceide to pay for repairs and use car  can I claim it back from Dealer please ?.

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

Well it's up to you. I think that an MOT failure certificate – and on the basis of what you say, it will fail – will be the final nail in the coffin of this dealer. If you produce an MOT fell certificate, they may even decide not to risk any challenge to you and simply to pay you out.

We are giving you the best advice and we are helping you protect your interest in the best way possible. Once again, it's amazing that you've been prepared to spend your money and take these kinds of risks, but the moment that you are getting sound advice in your best interests, you start to get cagey.

If you decide that you want to start using the car, then we would have to examine how much it would cost to put the car into a proper condition.

You would have to get a list of defects and estimates for the repairs and we would then have to submit that list and the estimate for the cost of the repairs to the dealer and tell them that they would be welcome to inspect the vehicle so that they can confirm or dispute the defects – and the cost of repairs – but after a certain amount of time, say, 10 days, you will be proceeding to have the repairs put in hand in order to make the car roadworthy and after that you will be suing them for your costs.

You have suggested that the car might pass its MOT – but if it is correct that the brakes are down to the metal, then it will definitely fail and I don't even think they would be advisories. You will be obliged to take it off the road.

If you want to get a refund then you should not drive the car under any circumstances other than to get the MOT and then return it to your driveway.

I have to say that I think we've given you all the advice we can on this, I can see that you are distressed and in a panic state afraid that it is becoming difficult to support you on this. We are giving you the best way forward and it's now for you to take up our advice or else to let it go.

I'm afraid I don't know what else to say

[Aga.misia]

I will book MOT and repair if necessarly  , and put cost on dealer in claim . I m.full time worker  cant afford not having car for such longer time unfortunately.

 My boyfriend works away and he will not be able to borrow me his car . 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

In that case write to the dealer immediately. You must give them advance notice.

Tell them that you are having the car examined and you are having a new MOT done because you don't trust them. Tell them that you will let them know the results and that you will decide whether or not to sue them for a complete refund or for the cost of putting the car into a roadworthy condition. Tell them that you will keep them completely informed as to the results of any inspections and the cost of any repairs before they are put in hand.

It's essential that you send this letter in advance so that they are fully aware. If you do not warn them about inspections and possible costs then you will find it very difficult to claim any money.

Do that straightaway. Draft a letter and post it here.

Then put the car infer that the MOT, get the car fully inspected at the same time and get an estimate for repairs and come back here and let us know.

Don't forget though, that once you have repairs carried out to the car then you are probably stuck with it and if there are any further defects in the future, you will still have the same problem of dealing with a dealer who is obviously not interested in helping you and is a long distance away.

However, draft a letter that you are going to send and post it here

 

We've been busy advising you the best options – and it's becoming very difficult because you simply want reassurance and you seem to be stuck in some mindset.

We've advised you the best way.

Send a letter of claim that we have already proposed – including the reference to the MOT test that you are going to have carried out this week.

Get the MOT test carried out – it will undoubtedly produce a failed certificate because of what you have told us about the brakes.

When you get the MOT fail certificate, send a copy of it to the dealer so that they have the letter of claim, the list of defects which you have found so far plus the MOT failure certificate.

In 14 days, issue the claim.

There is quite a chance that the dealer will realise that you are being serious and will want to put an end to the problem and refund you. If they don't then it will continue and go to mediation – and then maybe to a court hearing which would either be held remotely or else would be held at your local court.

Of course we will help you with the way – but am afraid we can't cope with your anxiety, panic – et cetera.

I don't really know what you think is going to happen to you. You are going to get in trouble. You've lost your money already. You will need to invest a little bit more to get it back but I'm very confident that you will get it back .

 

Take pictures of the oil – and maybe try to take a sample in a small bottle.

It doesn't change anything – it simply helps you.

Please will you post up your final version of the letter of claim and then when we have checked that it is complete, send it off.

If you won't send it off then there is nothing else we can do for you

 

Also I would recommend that you stop contacting the dealer by text – or by any other means without checking with us first.

 

[Aga.misia]

Dear German Cars

 

Letter of claim 

As you know, on XXX date you sold me a XXX model vehicle for XXX pounds. Within a very few days, the car displayed various defects and an inspection I have had carried out has confirmed a number of serious issues not the least of which are a brake system which is apparently one down to the metal. This may be a cause of the vibrations which I have previously described to you although this will need further investigation.

There has been substantial amount of correspondence between us and you are fully aware of the problems that there are with the vehicle that you sold me but for the avoidance of doubt I am sending you a second copy of the report which has identified the faults. I should point out that the faults contained in this list are simply those which are identified fairly quickly and they may well be others.

I have been advised not to drive the car because it is unroadworthy and also that there is a risk that the problems could get worse. I will not be driving the vehicle although I will be putting it through another MOT in order to get a better picture of the car's condition.

I have already written to you and pointed out that under the Consumer Rights Act I am entitled to a refund. You have refused to carry out your obligations under the Act and given a variety of excuses including that apparently the sale was a "trade sale" and therefore for some reason rather, you have no liability for selling a car in a dangerous and unroadworthy condition.

I require you to make arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to provide me with a refund. Please note that I have lost confidence in you and therefore I will not be prepared to release the vehicle to you until I have the refund. You can pay this to me by bank transfer or you can ask your delivery driver to pay me the cash.

If you do not collect the vehicle and refund me within 14 days of this letter and I shall start to add storage charges of £10 per day and furthermore I shall issue legal proceedings against you in the County Court without any further notice. These legal proceedings will include references to your statutory obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, your selling of an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence contrary to the Road Traffic Act and also unfair trading under the Contracts (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2008.

If you force me to take court action then I shall sue you for the reimbursement of the purchase price of the car, the accumulated storage fees, the ancillary losses which I have incurred – in particular in relation to insurance and tax plus interest which I understand is currently at 8%.  I shall also be applying for reimbursement of the MOT fee.

I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions about this. I've already used my best efforts to hold dialogue with you.

If you wish to have the car inspected by your own independent inspector then please let me know. I'm happy to accommodate any reasonable arrangement by appointment but you should understand that this must be done within the 14 day timescale and at my home because as I have said, at the end of 14 days I shall issue court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Xxx

 

I just have question, do I have to agree for his inspection even within 30 days ? , what if he wants it in his location ? I had independent report but Dealer is not accepting it