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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times. ×


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    • Reapstar
      SAR distress claim against Parking Eye

      By Reapstar · Posted

      What do you guys think the chances are for her?   She followed the law, they didnt, then they engage in deception, would the judge take kindly to being lied to by these clowns? If we have a case then we should proceed and not allow these blatant dishonest cheaters to succeed 
    • lookinforinfo
      EPC ANPR PCN - St Nicholas Street, Weymouth DT4 8AD

      By lookinforinfo · Posted

      I have looked at the car park and it is quite clearly marked that it is  pay to park  and advising that there are cameras installed so kind of difficult to dispute that. On the other hand it doesn't appear to state at the entrance what the charge is for breaching their rules. However they do have a load of writing in the two notices under the entrance sign which it would help if you could photograph legible copies of them. Also legible photos of the signs inside the car park as well as legible photos of the payment signs. I say legible because the wording of their signs is very important as to whether they have formed a contract with motorists. For example the entrance sign itself doe not offer a contract because it states the T&Cs are inside the car park. But the the two signs below may change that situation which is why we would like to see them. I have looked at their Notice to Keeper which is pretty close to what it should say apart from one item. Under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9 [2]a] the PCN should specify the period of parking. It doesn't. It does show the ANPR times but that includes driving from the entrance to the parking spot and then from the parking place to the exit. I know that this is a small car park but the Act is quite clear that the parking period must be specified. That failure means that the keeper is no longer responsible for the charge, only the driver is now liable to pay. Should this ever go to Court , Judges do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person so ECP will have their work cut out deciding who was driving. As long as they do not know, it will be difficult for them to win in Court which is one reason why we advise not to appeal since the appeal can lead to them finding out at times that the driver  and the keeper were the same person. You will get loads of threats from ECP and their sixth rate debt collectors and solicitors. They will also keep quoting ever higher amounts owed. Do not worry, the maximum. they can charge is the amount on the sign. Anything over that is unlawful. You can safely ignore the drivel from the Drips but come back to us should you receive a Letter of Claim. That will be the Snotty letter time.
    • dx100uk
      One Parking Solutions Windscreen PCN - private flat bays, share of freehold . - Durrington, West Sussex.

      By dx100uk · Posted

      please stop using @username - sends unnecessary alerts to people. everyone that's posted on your thread inc you gets an automatic email alert when someone else posts.  
    • lookinforinfo
      G24 anpr PCN - Double Dipping - Wigan Robin Retail Park

      By lookinforinfo · Posted

      he Fraser group own Robin park in Wigan. The CEO's email  is  [email protected]
    • FTMDave
      One Parking Solutions Windscreen PCN - private flat bays, share of freehold . - Durrington, West Sussex.

      By FTMDave · Posted

      Yes, it was, but in practice we've found time after time that judges will not rule against PPCs solely on the lack of PP.  They should - but they don't.  We include illegal signage in WSs, but more as a tactic to show the PPC up as spvis rather than in the hope that the judge will act on that one point alone. But sue them for what?  They haven't really done much apart from sending you stupid letters. Breach of GDPR?  It could be argued they knew you had Supremacy of Contact but it's a a long shot. Trespass to your vehicle?  I know someone on the Parking Prankster blog did that but it's one case out of thousands. Surely best to defy them and put the onus on them to sue you.  Make them carry the risk.  And if they finally do - smash them. If you want, I suppose you could have a laugh at the MA's expense.  Tell them about the criminality they have endorsed and give them 24 hours to have your tickets cancelled and have the signs removed - otherwise you will contact the council to start enforcement for breach of planning permission.

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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

...and so it begins

dcefx

By dcefx
in Lloyds Bank

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dcefx

dcefx

Posted
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Hi all, loving the site and glad i found it.

 

Just sent off the opening letter to Lloyds TSB with regards to our business account - over the last year we've clocked up £1400 in charges, almost exclusively as a result of their policy of taking debits out of an account BEFORE applying cleared credits to an account.

 

i.e. we pay a cheque in to the account and it's due to clear on wednesday, on wednesday they take all the transactions (ie cheques and DD's we've writen) out of the account but effectively using tuesday's balence and completely disregarding the large payment going thru their system that is technically "cleared".

 

We've got a secondary action against Nationwide as we had a business investor account which got laoded with penalties after we bounced some direct debits from the above account.

 

fingers crossed.

 

t

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dcefx

dcefx

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Hi all, loving the site and glad i found it.

 

Just sent off the opening letter to Lloyds TSB with regards to our business account - over the last year we've clocked up £1400 in charges, almost exclusively as a result of their policy of taking debits out of an account BEFORE applying cleared credits to an account.

 

i.e. we pay a cheque in to the account and it's due to clear on wednesday, on wednesday they take all the transactions (ie cheques and DD's we've writen) out of the account but effectively using tuesday's balence and completely disregarding the large payment going thru their system that is technically "cleared".

 

We've got a secondary action against Nationwide as we had a business investor account which got laoded with penalties after we bounced some direct debits from the above account.

 

fingers crossed.

 

t

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BankFodder

BankFodder

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Posted
:D
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BankFodder

BankFodder

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Posted
:D
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Guest

Guest

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Posted

I have to say, I know of NO other business that conducts half of its business in the middle of the night and the other half during normal office hours, but banks ALWAYS debit between midnight and 1am (more evidence that it's all done by computer) and always credit after opening time at 9am - more evidence that the crediting of accounts is a manual system (so they don't make a mistake and actually GIVE someone any money) but debiting is entirely automatic.

 

In any other line of business you'd expect that the close of business (4-30 to 5pm) would be the cut off time, and that if something went out and something was paid in it would all show up at the same time.

 

But the banks cheat, and now we've caught them, let's wring the money they've been fleecing back out of them.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I have to say, I know of NO other business that conducts half of its business in the middle of the night and the other half during normal office hours, but banks ALWAYS debit between midnight and 1am (more evidence that it's all done by computer) and always credit after opening time at 9am - more evidence that the crediting of accounts is a manual system (so they don't make a mistake and actually GIVE someone any money) but debiting is entirely automatic.

 

In any other line of business you'd expect that the close of business (4-30 to 5pm) would be the cut off time, and that if something went out and something was paid in it would all show up at the same time.

 

But the banks cheat, and now we've caught them, let's wring the money they've been fleecing back out of them.

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dcefx

dcefx

Posted
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stage 2...

 

A phone call today from our business manager telling us that they won't be refunding the charges etc & that these were "published when you opened the account and have not changed". Then giving me some (obviously from a script) legal speil about how if i were to take legal action i would be responsible for costs etc & it would be very expensive.

 

I've asked for a written response just confirming the position and their reasons for dismissing my claim but they're hesitant to provide the same.

 

So on Monday it's off to the court-house to file my claim...... :roll:

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dcefx

dcefx

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stage 2...

 

A phone call today from our business manager telling us that they won't be refunding the charges etc & that these were "published when you opened the account and have not changed". Then giving me some (obviously from a script) legal speil about how if i were to take legal action i would be responsible for costs etc & it would be very expensive.

 

I've asked for a written response just confirming the position and their reasons for dismissing my claim but they're hesitant to provide the same.

 

So on Monday it's off to the court-house to file my claim...... :roll:

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

Be prepared to go to court - just in case

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BankFodder

BankFodder

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Posted

Be prepared to go to court - just in case

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BankFodder

BankFodder

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Posted

Excellent

be aware that the consumer related legislation doe not apply to a business account.

So you have to rely mainly on Common law and UCTA 1977

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BankFodder

BankFodder

Posted
Posted

Excellent

be aware that the consumer related legislation doe not apply to a business account.

So you have to rely mainly on Common law and UCTA 1977

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  • 3 weeks later...
dcefx

dcefx

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Just an update - we got the useual slew of letters back from Lloyds saying that the charges were in line with T&C etc and as you all know we stuck to the original timescale and now have litigation going thru.

 

Today out of the blue they've sent us a letter as follows...

 

Dear DCEFX

Further to *********'s letter of the 9th March we have received a claim form from Leicester County Court. As you have now decided to pursue your concerns through the Courts we will not be responding to you regarding your complaint about charges.

 

Our Group Financial Crime Unit will respond to the Court within their required timescales.

 

Yours Sincerly

 

******

Service Recovery - Assistant Manager

 

It's worth pointing out that they ARE dealing with this business action in a different way to the consumer actions - they're also clearly trying to intimidate us by mentioning the FCU when clearly this is nothing to do with that department.

 

We'll send an acknowledgment to their letter and include a comment to the effect that we would consider negotiating a settlement so that we can show in court that we've tried every amicable solution.

 

The court claim is still going through tho and that clock is ticking.

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dcefx

dcefx

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Lloyds have filed an acknowledement, requested the full 28 days to prepare & allocated it to their solicitors - Martineau Johnson, 78 Cannon Street, London.

 

Although they are an "legit" solicitors the service address is that of an office bureux in london :lol:

 

t

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Empire Strikes Back

Empire Strikes Back

Posted
Posted

Jolly good luck to you, we are going for them as soon as we can sort it all out. Up to £17K and still counting. They are real nasties. We are hoping they will chase us for overdraft which amount to same as charges. We are fed up with the bullying tactics they use. We're just a small family firm trying to make a living. There must be hundreds more out there like us.

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  • 2 weeks later...
dcefx

dcefx

Posted
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Just to update you we have received a letter from their solicitors as follows...

 

".... The Bank will be defending these proceedings on the following grounds:

 

1 the fees that you are seeking to recoup are properly incorporated into your contract with the Bank. When opening your account you were provided with details of the banks charges and by using your account, you accept those charges; and

 

2 when you make a payment (whether by cheque, debit card or any other means) from your account when you have insufficient funds to cover it, you are effectively making a request to the bank for an increased overdraft. It is for the bank to decide whether or not to accept this request. If it meets your request, or indeed where the request is declined and the item is returned to your account you must pay the necessary charges. The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law where there has been a breach of contract. No breach of contract has occurred between you and the bank; the bank is merely providing another service, for which there is a charge. The charges are not penalties and therefore need not be a pre-estimate of the banks loss.

 

3 The unfair contract terms act 1997 and the Unfair terms un consumer contracts regulations only apply to those contracting as consumers not business customers. s15 of the supply of goods and services act only applies where there is an implied term as to the consideration; there are specific terms concerning those charges, set out in the banks charging leaflet.

 

yours faithfully....."

 

Interesting choice of defence....

 

There is an additional dialogue underway to attempt to broker an out of court settlement which seems to be along the same lines as everyone else has been offered.

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BankFodder

BankFodder

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Posted

Did you get my pm suggesting that you contact me before you return the allocation questionnaire?

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dcefx

dcefx

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As mentioned an un-official dialogue has been continuing and the terms of an OOC settlement has been agreed - just waiting for all the processes to be completed so we can mark this one as settled

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dave

dave

Posted
Posted

3 The unfair contract terms act 1997 and the Unfair terms un consumer contracts regulations only apply to those contracting as consumers not business customers. s15 of the supply of goods and services act only applies where there is an implied term as to the consideration; there are specific terms concerning those charges, set out in the banks charging leaflet.

They are quite correct. As a business account customer you should rely on the case law, not the UTCCR's.

If you feel that we have helped you, or you would like to help keep this web site running so that others can continue to get their money back, please click the donate button at the top of the forum.

Advice & opinions of Dave, The Bank Action Group and The Consumer Action Group are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

 

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Add me as your friend on FaceBook - I need all the friends I can get :-(

 

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=577405151

 

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dcefx

dcefx

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//sigh//

 

the UCTA would apply - you're correct that the UTCCA wouldn't apply but as i've touched on in this post and elsewhere the defense they submitted was riddled with errors & didn't actually tally up to the assertations made in our claim - this citation being a prime example.

 

This is all by the by though as it does all seem to be tied up now.

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  • 12 years later...
dcefx

dcefx

Posted
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This topic was closed on 03/05/19.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support their.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

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