Van brought from Copart not advertised correctly.

[copartt6]

Hi,

 

I have just taken delivery of a salvage van after winning it via a copart auction.

 

The trouble is that when the van turned up it's mileage was around 54,900miles and not the 20,500miles that was stated on the advert.

The advert also had a picture of the dash which also read 20,500miles.

 

I have contacted copart by phone but was told I needed to send an email, which I have but with no reply as of yet.

 

I don't want a van with this mileage, i wanted one with no more then 25,000miles.

 

 I was wondering how I stand legally?

I have a copy of the advert saved and the photos attached to the advert.

 

Any help would be very welcome,

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

There is a substantial difference in mileage – more than the hundred percent different. The vehicle is not as described and you should reject it immediately.
I'm assuming that you didn't have an opportunity to inspect it physically before the conclusion of the sale

Write a letter to the seller and copy to the auction house explaining that you are rejecting the vehicle on the basis that it is not as described and you want an immediate refund and you want arrangements made to collect it or to reimburse you any costs that you incur returning it.

Send this letter by email and also confirm in writing by recorded delivery post. Do it straightaway.

All of this matter should be sorted out and over and done with and you fully reimburse within 10 days. If there is any sense that there is any trouble then let us know and we will help you begin a County Court claim.

For such an extraordinary discrepancy in the advertise mileage, I'm afraid

Take pictures of the vehicle now so that there is no doubt as to the condition of the vehicle. When it is collected or delivered, take pictures of it then. Make sure of course that all paperwork et cetera is returned.

Who's the seller? Is it a private seller or a dealer? Please name them.

Which is the auction house? Please name them.

 

Your only problem here will be there if you are unable to trace the seller or you are unable to locate any assets if it comes to bringing a legal action.

 

[copartt6]

It came from Copart. A big seller of salvage vehicles all over the country. They hold auctions regularly during the week selling lots of different vehicles. 

 

The van arrived Tuesday evening on a transporter. I noticed then that the mileage was not the same as the picture. On Wednesday I called them but was told we had to complain via email so on Thursday morning we sent an email. Today we called them again because we hadn't had a reply email, they said it can take a couple of days to get back to you. 

 

I won the auction last Thursday and paid via bank transfer on the Saturday. 

 

It would be a weight of my shoulders to know I should be able to return the van. I wanted a low mileage van to fix up and last me several years.

[BankFodder]

Don't take any nonsense from them don't be put off by messages. Don't accept their timelines for action.

send the letter I have suggested immediately. If you want then post the draft here and we will check it.

Do not muck around and don't be led around by the nose.

 

You paid by bank transfer - Big Fail.

 

 

 

[copartt6]

From the paperwork I have it would appear to have been sold by copart on behalf of AXA commercial. 

 

Why would a bank transfer be a problem?

 

Could you give me an idea of how my letter to them should read?

 

Thanks for your help.

[BankFodder]

Do a draft and then monitor this thread for a reply tomorrow.

 

with a bank transfer you have difficulty getting your money back. With a debit card you can can make the bank give you a chargeback and with a credit card then you are protected under the consumer credit act.  either way your money is safe. With bank transfer or cash your money is not safe. Big Fail.

 

[BankFodder]

A little more detail on the above.

If you pay by cash or bank transfer then it is purely a matter between you and the recipient of the money.

If you purchase your item on a finance agreement – or pay even part of it by a credit card – or you purchase on hire purchase, then your agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 75 of the act basically makes the lender equally responsible with the seller. In other words they share exactly the same consumer rights obligations so that if the item you purchase is in any way sold to you in breach of contract, then the lender shares equal responsibility. This is especially useful if you get a dealer who suddenly disappears or becomes bankrupt – then you turn against the lender.

If you purchase an item with a debit card then all of the banks are part of a voluntary scheme – a chargeback scheme – and they also are required to step up and to return your money to you. Although it is a voluntary scheme, this means that the banks aren't obliged to join the scheme – but once they do, then they are subject to the terms of the scheme. All banks have joined the scheme.

The majority of second-hand car problems we have on this forum involve people being persuaded to pay the purchase price by cash or bank transfer. Big Fail!

Even if you can simply pay a couple of hundred quid on a credit card, then you should get protection for the entire purchase.

If you find any kind of dealer who only accepts bank transfer – then walk away.

[slick132]

Hi CPt6 and welcome to CAG

 

To establish the basics, your contract here is with Copart UK Ltd. They specialise is selling vehicles that are insurance write-offs; fleet, lease and hire company vehicles; and they sell on behalf of insurers, traders and the public.

 

What was the van and the approx price you paid in total.

 

Did you personally buy the van, or did you buy it in some sort of business capacity - very brief detail please.

 

As BankFodder has suggested, you need to stay off the phone. Draft a letter rejecting the van on the basis that it is not as described, citing simply the very significant mileage difference. You have protection from the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and, if Copart fail to refund you in full and collect the van at their expense, you will lodge a formal complaint with Trading Standards.

 

As BF said, take good pictures of the van just before it's collected showing time and date with close-ups of the mileage and panels right round the van.

 

Their HO address is :-

 

Copart UK Ltd

Acrey Fields

Woburn Road

Stewartby

Bedford

MK43 9EJ

 

Post the draft here asap.

 

[stu007]

Hi

 

Companies Details.

 

Jane Pocock
Managing Director
Copart UK Limited
Acrey Fields
Woburn Road
Wootton
Bedfordshire
MK43 9EJ

 

Company Number: 00929621

 

Companies House link: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00929621

 

[copartt6]

Right, so as it stands this is whats has happened.

 

4th February: Win at auction a van from Copart Wolverhampton.

 

6th February: Pay via bank transfer. 

 

9th February: The van is collected and delivered to me by a transporter. I notice mileage is not the same as the description or the picture of the odometer.

 

10th February: Call Copart and complain. Told to write an email.

 

11th February: Send email complaining about the mileage.

 

12th February: No reply from email so call them again to be told it takes a couple of days to get an email reply.

 

15th February: Still no reply from original email so I send another email but this time also send a letter via Royal Mail Special delivery. Addressed to the general manager. This is what I sent......

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I bought Lot # 30991721 from you on 4th February 2021 and paid £9147.60.

The van was advertised with photos and a description that did not match the van. The description stated the mileage at 20,500 miles and the photo of the dash backed this up. The photo clearly shows 20,500 miles. This van has 54,953 miles on the odometer. I took photos of this immediately on receiving the van. I have attached these to an email also.

I wish to return this vehicle for a full refund as the photos do not represent the vehicle I purchased. This would match your Members Protection Pledge.

Please find enclosed the pictures as advertised and the photo of the odometer I took on collection.

This will be sent as both an email and via Royal Mail Signed and Tracked.

I look forward to your prompt reply.

 Yours sincerely,

 

16th February: Tracking shows the letter has been received by Copart Wolverhampton. 

 

17th February: Still no reply so called to ask why? Told that a reply would be sent today. I then received this email today.....

 

 

 

Good Afternoon,

 

I am writing following your recent complaint.

 

Whilst I understand your frustration and disappointment, I am unable to assist further as our terms and conditions clearly state that all lots offered for sale are sold ‘as is where is’.  This means that we do not give any express or implied warranty that any lot will be fit for a particular purpose, be of satisfactory quality (or have been maintained at any level of quality whatsoever), be in a roadworthy condition or be mechanically sound.  For your reference, I have provided an extract of our membership terms and conditions below:

 

8.1         ALL LOTS WE OFFER FOR SALE ARE SOLD “AS IS WHERE IS”. “AS IS WHERE IS” SALES ARE SALES WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY WARRANTY OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY). We expressly disclaim the accuracy or completeness of any and/or all information provided to you regarding Lots whether provided in written, verbal or digital image form (“Lot Information”). Lot Information is provided for convenience only. You agree that you will not rely on Lot Information in deciding whether or how much to bid on any Lot. Lot Information includes without limitation: year, make, model, condition, damage amount, damage type, roadworthiness, driveability, accessories, mileage, odometer readings, vehicle identification numbers, title, repairs needed, repair cost, repair history, title history, service history and total loss history. We expressly disclaim any and all representations (whether written or verbal), warranties and guarantees regarding the Lots we offer for sale. We do not guarantee that keys are available for any vehicles sold through us, regardless of whether or not keys are present in online images or are present in the vehicle during any pre-purchase inspection. The Lots we offer for sale may be missing components or parts. We do not guarantee that vehicles meet or can be modified to meet local emission or safety requirements. IT IS YOUR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY TO ASCERTAIN, CONFIRM, RESEARCH, INSPECT AND/OR INVESTIGATE TO YOUR SATISFACTION THE LOTS WE OFFER FOR SALE AND ANY AND ALL LOT INFORMATION PRIOR TO DECIDING WHETHER AND HOW MUCH YOU WISH TO BID ON ANY LOT.

8.2         YOU AGREE THAT ALL LOTS ARE SOLD “AS IS, WHERE IS” AND ARE NOT REPRESENTED TO BE IN A ROADWORTHY CONDITION, MECHANICALLY SOUND OR MAINTAINED AT ANY LEVEL OF QUALITY WHATSOEVER. THE LOTS MAY NOT BE FIT FOR PURPOSE AS A MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION OR FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE AND MAY REQUIRE SUBSTANTIAL REPAIRS AT YOUR EXPENSE. THE LOTS MAY NOT BE OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ALL CONSIDERATIONS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR ANY LOT WE OFFER FOR SALE. You acknowledge and agree that we have excluded our liability in respect of terms that would otherwise have been implied into the Contract of Sale under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) to the fullest extent permitted by law, including without limitation the terms relating to Lots complying with their description and/or being fit for a particular purpose.

 

You will note from point 8.1 of the terms and conditions mentioned above that as a member it is your responsibility to investigate (which may include physically viewing the lot) the lot to your satisfaction prior to placing any bid.  To help members with this, lots are available to be viewed at our facilities during the week prior to their auction and we also have a specific ‘Additional Information’ email address for each of our facilities so that members can request additional information for lots they are interested in.

 

Please note that the vehicle you have purchased is an insurance listing and as such we would not have carried out a HPI check prior to auction, as this would be Members responsibility in line with the above terms and conditions. I have carried out a HPI check on the vehicle today and it does state: THE MILEAGE READING YOU HAVE ENTERED IS INCONSISTENT WITH OTHER DATA CURRENTLY HELD ON THE NATIONAL MILEAGE REGISTER. I would argue that would have carried out your checks this would have been flagged prior to bidding.

 

We do make every effort to ensure we provide accurate descriptions of lots however, our descriptions are based solely on a visual inspection of the lot to ascertain the primary and secondary areas of damage present. Although such damage is highlighted to you in our advert for a vehicle, I must remind you that in line with point 8.1 set out above, the information we provide on an advert is purely for convenience only and, having agreed to the terms and conditions, you have agreed to place no reliance whatsoever on such information when you are deciding whether or how much to bid as the responsibility lies solely with you to investigate the lot to your satisfaction. 

 

Again, please accept my apologies for the frustration caused however I am unable to assist you further and your complaint has now been closed.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

I have attached screenshots i took of the advert and below is a link to there 'Members Protection Pledge'.

 

https://www.copart.co.uk/content/uk/en/member-protection-pledge 

 

 

What can I do? Feel like I've hit a brick wall.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Why should you worry so much about the terms and conditions? Their terms conditions and the terms and conditions of any company are designed to protect them, and not the customer.
Just because they have come up with a set of terms and conditions, doesn't mean that those terms and conditions are necessarily binding.

If they had said somewhere that you should not rely on the picture of the mileage and that you should make your own enquiry, then maybe they would have a case. I'm not aware that they said this.

A posted a picture of the dashboard clocks in order that they could be relied upon.

Is there any use in showing the rev counter? I don't think so.

Is there any use in showing the Speedo suggesting that it might possibly run as a maximum speed of 160 miles an hour? I don't think so

The only useful information that any buyer would be interested in when looking at the dashboard would be the mileage. It's very clear that the milometer reads 20,000 miles and unless you can point to something which says that they have posted photographs of the vehicle but you should rely on those photographs – which would make a mockery of the photographs – then I think that the correct position is that they are bound by the photographs and the vehicle is not as described.

Under consumer legislation you are not obliged to carry out an inspection of the vehicle – but if you do carry out an inspection then you have to carried out to a reasonable standard. There is no need to take any other action in respect of checking the mileage of the vehicle. If you had made enquiries of the HPI register then certainly you might have been expected to react to the news that there is an inconsistency in the mileage. However, you are absolutely reasonable in relying upon the representations made by Copart.

 

It seems to me pretty clear that they use pictures of a different vehicle when advertising our auction. Of course, the information in the photograph is backed up by the fact that they referred to that mileage in their own description.
Clearly they made an error. They don't want to own up and take responsibility and so they are trying to rely on their terms and conditions in order to make you the fall guy.

Bravo Copart. A shameful piece of deception

One thing I'm still not quite certain about is that the vehicle was bought from Copart? Or are they simply an auction house and you bought the vehicle someone else?

[copartt6]

The vehicle was sold by Copart after it was passed to them by AXA Commercial. I know this as there was paperwork in the van stating not just the insurer but also the name and contact of the previous owner (does this break GDRP rules?). Copart take on the sale and this involves them taking pictures and describing the van. They also add their fee to the final sale price.

 

Does this mean I should reject the email i had from them today and continue pushing for a refund? How should i go about it? I feel that there t&c's means that its down to me to complete a HPI check on the vehicle. But even so, as you say, its not advertised correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by copartt6

[BankFodder]

I need to understand who is the seller of the van. In other words who owned it at the time that you bought it. Who did you buy it from.

have you written a formal letter of rejection to the seller?

please see this thread for a further reply tomorrow but in the meantime start reading up about the steps involved in taking a small claim to the county Court

 

[copartt6]

On the paperwork that was in the van on delivery its states the seller as AXA Commerial. It also has the name of the owner, which is a large company and not an individual.  I know that Copart are the ones who receive the vehicle to there yard and take the pictures. 

 

I'll start reading the link regards small claims. Is this the only option left? Or maybe trying to contact someone at head office rather than the manager of this branch of copart?

 

Thanks. 

[BankFodder]

If you feel that you can make some headway phoning a head office then do so. It doesn't cost you anything. If you are going to do it by phone then make sure you read our customer services guide first and implement the advice there. Otherwise – don't phone.

In terms of taking legal action, my own feeling is that this is your only route – but try others if you prefer.

If you take legal action then you will have to sue the seller of the vehicle. If it isn't clear to you who sold you the vehicle – and you are the purchaser – then it certainly isn't clear to me.

Identify the seller and then you can start taking your legal action. If you see the wrong party then they will simply defend on the basis that you didn't have any contract with them – and they will be right – and you will have lost your claim fee and you will have to begin again.
The company which is listed as the owner – is probably only the registered owner because if the vehicle was damaged in an accident then it would have become the property of the insurance company by subrogation. This may well mean that they are the seller
Now you see why they all want to be paid by bank transfer.

[BankFodder]

Any update on this?