Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[rogerebaker]

Complete success against Woking Council re their PCNs

 

Cancelled after informal representations due to no date of issue and misrepresenting who is liable to pay on the rear.

 

Only another 4 PCNs to go

[rogerebaker]

2nd one cancelled today

 

Only 3 more to go

 

:) :)

[seylectric]

Great stuff, this gives the rest of us valuable ammunition when claiming in our area. please keep us informed.

[myzeejon88]

I got parking ticket Westminster 20/7/06, £60.00 didn't pay it sure enough 20/7/06 Notice to Owner arrived wanting £100 because it hadn't been paid. Sent a representation saying "I refer to above PCN. The PCN issued at that time stated that the date of issue was 20/7/06 but did not state a date of contravention. Following the recent Judicial Review in the matter of Moses v Barnet originally referred to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service, I have grounds to believe that the PCN was unlawfully issued and thus £100 is not, in fact, due. Got letter back 20/8/06 saying "this was a procedural error. You will not be hearing from us again"

 

Up yours Westminster, like LLOYDS TSB. you don't need the money either!

 

Good luck

[seylectric]

You know, that's the one thing that annoys me the most about these things, they DON'T need the money, they rake in more than they know what to do with then spend it on stuff we don't need, two-tone paintwork and new logos all over their new vans for example, new traffic lights replacing perfectly good old ones, free newsletters distributed to every household teling us how wonderful they are, pointless public information adverts on the radio and so on.

 

It's the principle of the whole thing that really does my head in.

[JonCris]

I understand Westminsters parking coffers are in surplus to the tune of 5 MILLION QUID!!!!!!!!

[seylectric]

Absolute disgrace, and proof if ever it was needed that it's just a cash cow. You wouldn't mind if the "victims" were actually doing any harm, i.e. blocking traffic flow or causing a hazard. No need for it at all in most cases EXCEPT to raise money. This money should be given back.

[seylectric]

I'm actually about to fire off a questionnaire to the local council with the following questions; when I get answers I will be sending off another five similar questions:

 

 

1. Why is it necessary to put double yellow lines down in a short cul-de-sac that contains no houses, a hotel on one side and a park on the other?

 

2. Why do traffic wardens regularly patrol resident's parking areas but never patrol other areas where cars are regularly parked partly on footpaths?

 

3. Why is it deemed necessary to ticket a car "illegally" parked in a resident's parking area at 11 p.m.

 

when there is obviously ample spare parking space that is not going to be taken up by residents overnight?

 

4. Why, when motorists already pay more money into the road systems in road tax (road fund licence) than is ever spent on the roads, have parking meters been installed on certain roads around the town centre?

 

5. Why have double yellow lines been painted in an otherwise disused long lay-by, which is not used for any other purpose other than a little used bus stop at the top end?

 

(Locations included)

[JonCris]

Good luck with that one seylectric.

 

No doubt you'll post some of the answers here. I for one can't wait.

[seylectric]

I will indeed post the answers here, assuming I get any! Don't hold your breath though!

[julie1961]

I have just found this thread & i can't believe this site is helping me out again.

I took my daughter in to my local town (Leeds)to drop a sick note off at work. I always park in the car park which isn't council but for some mad reason on this occasion I noticed a parking space on the road just outside the car park. I looked around for a ticket machine but couldn't see one & no signs on where to get a ticket so I went in to the car park & got a ticket from the machine.

When i got back to the car after dropping the sick note off I had got a ticket which says I did not show a valid pay & display ticket. I noticed an attendant over the road so went to speak to him & he said I should have got my ticket from the machine at the top of the road & round the corner, how was i supposed to know that.

As I said earlier I usually park in the car park which I have done since but out of curiousity I have walked past parked cars on the road & many have got penalty tickets stuck to them which to me proves the council are not informing drivers where to get there tickets, they had tickets they had got through the car park machine.

I have just checked my penalty ticket & it does not say date of issue, it just says date so i am going to fight this, this council must know what they are doing by putting the machine so far away from the spaces & not having a sign up stating where the machine is.

Is there a template letter i can send about this?

[JonCris]

Apart from the fact that you ticket is probably already unenforceable they should also allow you sufficient time to get a ticket before issuing & if they didn't it can be appealed for that reason alone

[julie1961]

Hi Joncris, I had already put my ticket on. I got the penalty ticket while we were dropping the sick note off.

[ginnever]

If it doesn't say "date of issue" its unlawful

 

Dispute it.

 

i received a ticket in the ASDA car park. I had my grandson with me who at the moment we are toilet training, and was desperatley wainting the toilet. I called into the asda one sunday afternoon and it was very busy. I parked in what I thought was the kiddies parking area when we came out I had a notice stuck to the windscreen. It was a parking fine from Town & city Parking, Perth even though this occured in Sheffield. As I didn't want to incurr any further charges I duly paid up, £20 instead of £40.00

 

Now looking at my ticket I can't see and date of issue anywhere on the ticket, nor date of offence just the ticket says in bold at the top of the slip CIVIL PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE.

 

then goes onto;

 

DATE 07.10.2006

TIME 15.36

 

FIRST SEEN 15.34

 

LOCATION

ASDA STORE HANDSWORTH SHEFFIELD

 

REASON: UNATHORISED PARKING IN A DISABLED BAY

 

VEHICLE MAKE CITROEN

 

VEHICLE MODEL ELATION

 

RFL 45418194

 

REG. NO. NXXXXXX (i bLOCKED THIS OUT)

 

COLOUR BLUE

 

iSSUING OFFICIAL NO HJE2

 

SIGNATURE JOHN EXXXX

 

Then it goes onto say:

 

This vehicle was parked at the location stated at the specified time in breach of the terms and conditions advertised.

 

A Civil Penalty charge of £40.00 is now due.

 

Then goes on about the payment instructions.

 

Is this ticket lawful and should i claim back my charges?

[seylectric]

THIS IS SCANDALOUS. Private companies are jumping on the bandwagon and using the same tactics as councils are and illegally ticketing people. Most people pay up because they are coerced into believing that if they don't pay they are liable to pay more.

 

GARBAGE! DON'T PAY UP! They have absolutely NO juristiction in the law of this land to fine you anything! Thw worst they could do is lodge a court claim against you for non-payment; they have no legal right to fine you though and would get laughed out of court. THERE IS NO LAW which allows a private company to "fine" you (or clamp you for that matter) if you park on their land. DON'T FALL FOR IT!

 

If in doubt ask them to show you which law allows them to fine you without a trial. They will not be able to give you an answer because there isn't one.

[ginnever]

THIS IS SCANDALOUS. Private companies are jumping on the bandwagon and using the same tactics as councils are and illegally ticketing people. Most people pay up because they are coerced into believing that if they don't pay they are liable to pay more.

 

GARBAGE! DON'T PAY UP! They have absolutely NO juristiction in the law of this land to fine you anything! Thw worst they could do is lodge a court claim against you for non-payment; they have no legal right to fine you though and would get laughed out of court. THERE IS NO LAW which allows a private company to "fine" you (or clamp you for that matter) if you park on their land. DON'T FALL FOR IT!

 

If in doubt ask them to show you which law allows them to fine you without a trial. They will not be able to give you an answer because there isn't one.

 

Should I ask for the money back

[ginnever]

THIS IS SCANDALOUS. Private companies are jumping on the bandwagon and using the same tactics as councils are and illegally ticketing people. Most people pay up because they are coerced into believing that if they don't pay they are liable to pay more.

 

GARBAGE! DON'T PAY UP! They have absolutely NO juristiction in the law of this land to fine you anything! Thw worst they could do is lodge a court claim against you for non-payment; they have no legal right to fine you though and would get laughed out of court. THERE IS NO LAW which allows a private company to "fine" you (or clamp you for that matter) if you park on their land. DON'T FALL FOR IT!

 

If in doubt ask them to show you which law allows them to fine you without a trial. They will not be able to give you an answer because there isn't one.

 

Should I ask for my money back?

[callumsgran]

Anyone help me? i got a pcn y'day for parking on single yellow line or rather hubby did. we were taking our 30 day notice to vacate to our letting agent before they closed at 5 o'clock or we would've had to pay £550 for another months rent!

We were in there for about 10 mins and when we came out saw a warden printing a ticket, my husband said dont issue it we're back and we're going now, no matter she said as of 6 mins ago you were in contravention of code 02

Now as we dont frequent this road we didnt know that between 4.30 and 6pm you cant park on the single yellow line as the road is a busy through route for rush hour traffic!

After reading this thread i'm wondering if the ticket is indeed lawful as it only states notice number date and time (no issue) on it anywhere! it does however state the contravention (02) but not the date for that either?

Guys???

1

[callumsgran]

Bump

[rogerebaker]

Is it issued by the council under the 1991 Road Traffic Act or by the Police. Yellow lines are usually the police or traffic wardens and its a different Act of parliament

[callumsgran]

Hi roger, its a council one

[rogerebaker]

You need to lots of reading thru this thread which has all the info but in essence as a result of the recent high court case Barnet V Moses the PCN has got to have 2 dates

 

The date of issue / notice and the date of contravention.

 

If it dosnt then it is completely unenforcable.

 

even if it did have both of these theres about half a dozen other pit falls for the council to fall into which they seem to do regularly.

 

If there is only one date make representations to the council referring to the above case.

 

They will have to cancel it

 

Which council is it ?

[seylectric]

Worth mentioning this again from a few months back:

 

"Under the decriminalised scheme brought in by the Road Traffic Act 1991, when a vehicle is, for example, parked on a yellow line during controlled hours, it is said to be parked ‘in contravention of the regulations’. Thus there are no offences, merely contraventions...............In some car parks, contraventions of the regulations are enforced by Parking Attendants issuing Penalty Charge Notices. These can be challenged in same way as if the Penalty Charge Notice had been issued to a vehicle parked in the street"

 

This is a quote which actually comes from the official NPAS (National Parking Adjudication Service) site!

[callumsgran]

You need to lots of reading thru this thread which has all the info but in essence as a result of the recent high court case Barnet V Moses the PCN has got to have 2 dates

 

The date of issue / notice and the date of contravention.

 

If it dosnt then it is completely unenforcable.

 

even if it did have both of these theres about half a dozen other pit falls for the council to fall into which they seem to do regularly.

 

If there is only one date make representations to the council referring to the above case.

 

They will have to cancel it

 

Which council is it ?

bristol city council, it only says date of notice on it, not issue anywhere!

[JonCris]

Then it aint lawful.

 

Also read seylectics 290.

 

If the ticket in anyway refers to 'fine' 'offence' or 'penalty' the same applies. You can only contravene the parking regulations. You DO NOT commit an 'offence' so can't be 'fined' or 'penalised'