Hoist/Cohen claimform - old Barclaycard debt ***Claim Dismissed***

[Browneyes1929]

 

Name of the Claimant ? Hoist Finance UK Holdings

 

Date of issue – 21/8/2019

 - AOS filed on MCOL on 8/9/2019

 

 22/9/2019 defence due today

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.This Claim is for the sum of £2200 in respect of monies owing under an agreement with the account number xxxxxxxxxx pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA).

 

2.The debt was legally assigned by Hoist Portfolio Holding Ltd (Ex Barclaycard) to the Claimant and notice has been served.

 

3.The Defendant failed to make contractual payments under the terms of the Agreement. A default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to s.87(1) CCA.

 

4.The Claimant claims.

1. The sum of £2200

2.Costs

 

What is the total value of the claim? ?  £2400

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes 17/7/2019

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred?Yes

 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?Yes

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Before April 2007

 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? no

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/ Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. It is the Debt purchaser

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?yes

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes

 

Why did you cease payments? April 2014

 

What was the date of your last payment? 25 April 2014

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No as far as I know although

 

1. on the 24 October 2018 Barclaycard sent me a letter telling me they were refunding interest and default fees.

"following a recent review of our operating procedures we have Identified that for customers who had fallen be hide on the payments, we did not always meet our expected standards for assessing customers circumstances or engaging with them."

They asked Hoist to reduce the outstanding balance which is reflected in the amount they're claiming.

 

2. on the 29th August 2019 I put a claim into Barclaycard for any PPI paid on the account.

I doubt there is anything due although I can't check as I'm missing some statements,

I think Barclaycard switched me to paperless billing without my consent for a while then I made them switch me back.   

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes March 2013 made a few payments then fell behind again.

......…………..

 

I will be sending off the CPR and CCA letter tomorrow recorded delivery.

 

And I'm planning to put in the following defence Particulars  on MCOL, If someone would be kind enough to check it for me I'll be eternally grateful.

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Barclaycard . I am unaware of what account the claimant refers to. I am unaware of what alleged debt the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim.  

 

3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I deny having received statutory notices in the form of a Default Notice required under s87(1) of the consumer credit  Act. I also deny having received statutory notices in the form of Notice of Sums in Arrears as required by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

4 That this debt was assigned to Hoist Portfolio Holding Ltd is denied. I can’t recall ever receiving any Notice of Assignment or ever having being approached pre litigation with regards to this alleged debt.

 

5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

(c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief

 

If I submitted my defence today on MCOL will the court not class it as being received until tomorrow and if so will that be held against me?

 

[dx100uk]

why have you sat on this since july??

and not posted here before your deadline of Friday?

 

did you not send off CCA/CPR as with your other court claims and just about every claimform thread here?

 

as your are a LiP it wont hurt filing today.

 

 

[Browneyes1929]

They've sent me a letter of claim a few times before and never taken me to court.  

I've been really busy with work.  

 

I'll send them tomorrow, I promise.    

 

I feel like a pro after my "one" previous success so have become too complacent.   

 

One quick question what does LiP stand for?

[dx100uk]

Litigant In Person 

joe public against System.

you are thus given certain leeway for silly mistakes or errors due to poss not fully understanding a rather [still] unnecessarily complex the legal system

[Browneyes1929]

Hi All

 

I have now received all I'm going to receive from Hoist with regards to documentation in response to my CPR and CCA requests.  

 

Interestingly Robinson Way (who apparently manage the debt for Hoist ) sent back my £1 postal order as "under the new General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) you are no longer required by law to pay £1 in order to request your credit agreement."

 

They didn't send the agreement anyway citing the county court claim and that Howard Cohen would send the Docs.  

 

HC have sent the following

 

1. A difficult to read terms and conditions (Uploaded with this post) with a covering letter stating 

"We are now in possession of a reconstituted version of the regulated Credit Agreement and its original varied terms and conditions which is sufficient for the provisions of s.77-s.79 Consumer Credit Act 1974. This has been enclosed for your inspection."

 

2. the next day they sent 

"the Default Notice, Statements of Account from April 2014 to June 2014 and the Notices of Assignment regarding the Account."

 

I've uploaded the default notice and and example of one of the statements of account (redacted).

 I can upload the Notices of Assignment too in necessary.

 

The Agreement has no signature or date so I'm presuming because my account is from 2004 a reconstituted version is not admissible so this is unenforceable.  

 

Also the statements have absolutely no detail which if memory serves was something the District judge used against the claimant in my case with Lowell, she questioned how I was supposed to check transactions and interest rates etc.   

 

When I returned the N180 I ticked for mediation.  I've received an email with a proposed appointment.  do I call them now and politely decline the appointment as I don't have all the paperwork I need to mediate?

 

Thanks

 

Barclaycard_docs_original.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Section 77/78 CCA requests.... no connection to GDPR.......its the Credit Consumer Act 1974......numpties.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

usual bogroll 6620000 docs they rock out

if you look carefully they say 2014 around the edge so cant be what was issued to you at the takeout time ..

 

 

[Browneyes1929]

bet you love saying that.  numpties. so appropriate

 

the agreement I think is the first two pages so the 2004 is mentioned a fair bit.  

the next three pages are the terms and conditions that applied in 2014 which is when the account defaulted.

I'm presuming that's their thought processes.

 

although looking at it it is made to look like it's all one document when its blatantly 2 separate docs put together cheeky buggers.

how nasty.

[Browneyes1929]

hi

 

my court date is the 4th March.

14 days means my defence witness statement needs to be in by Tuesday.

Could someone please double check the redacted copy I've attached.

 

I've also received their bundle and they have quoted "Carey" as the reason for allowing a reconstituted agreement.  

They've also included statements from 2009 showing all charges on the account.

 

 They didn't send those  before just ones for a few months in 2014 when there was no spending on the account.  

However the agreement is still the reconstituted one without my signature. 

 

The last time I included copies of everything which the judge said weren't needed in the end.  

This  time I've just referred to the information I want to highlight (i.e. thats beneficial to me) by page and paragraph number in the claimants bundle.

Thank you

 

 

hoist portfolio defence redacted.pdf

 

just to double check does the 14 days include the court date or not?

Edited February 16, 2020 by Browneyes1929

[dx100uk]

we need to see all their WS + the exhibits but not statements (bar one as an example) nor each exhibit front cover sheets.

 

yours needs to be with the court by the 19th

the fleecers copy can go 1st class with free POP the same day.

 

 

[Browneyes1929]

Hi

sorry to take so long to get these done.

 

redacted docs as requested. i left out the FCA bumf that they included with the letters of claim in the bundle.  

 

The statements are 90 odd pages worth far more than they sent under CPR.  

obviously the reconstituted agreement is the same as I've already uploaded.

 

claimant witness statement1.pdf Hoist bundle docs1.pdf

 

I've just seen in their covering letter with the reconstituted agreement they state the following:

 

"we can confirm that a default was registered on the 15th September 2014 and a last payment of £12 was received on 25th April 2014. This is within the six year limitation period, therefore the debt is not statute barred."

 

What is the time limitation for this type of debt and how does it work with regards to taking me to court?

is the letter of claim the beginning as that is dated the 15/7/2019.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Browneyes1929

[dx100uk]

sb runs either from default notice date + 14 days or YOUR last payment whichever is the latter.

though if the OC took many months to register the default following your last payment, then it's actual date becomes debateable .

 

this payment of £12, are there others monthly prior to this?

seems like an odd value to pay unless your were in a DMP with someone.

 

usual WS from cohen.

hearsay evidence

recontructed 6200000 agreement sheets with your copy n pasted name etc inserted in the right places.. they used these lots of times in claims here and have lost over them

trying to claim carey applies, it doesnt.

[Browneyes1929]

yes I did I made a repayment plan around then to pay £12 a month but at the time my finances were in dire straights and I struggled to even pay that in the end they cancelled that I only made one payment that was in the April 2014. 

I just left it until they took me to court i.e. now.  

 

previous payment before that was December 2013.  

They refunded a couple of hundred pounds to my account in 2018 (it went the whoever owned the debt then) because they

 

"had identified that for some customers who had fallen behind on their payments, we did not always meet our expected standards for assessing customers' circumstances or engaging with them."

 

I didn't query it as I didn't want to draw their attention to me.  

I just hoped I might win the lottery in the meantime

 

is my statement ok to send tomorrow?

[dx100uk]

no it needs work.. a lot too. the basics are there and good...

but

you need to remove what is nothing more than 'diary entries/time line', they are not required in a WS.

 

we never saw the defence you filed? 

you disappeared again for another 3mts.

 

 

[Browneyes1929]

I posted the defence in the 1st post on this page. 

 

What do i need to look at in my witness statement. I based it on my previous one with Lowells.  

Although I admit I understand the Carey bit and the reconstituted claim form not having a signature and not being in the correct format.

 

I'm a bit confused by default notice and the statement bits.

 

 I remember the judge ripping into the claimant over lowells statement not having much detail but I can see that these statements do even the interest rates.  Am I on the right track with this? and is there anything else I should be looking at in my defence.

 

Also as an aside I checked my credit rating last night and according to Experian (the free online version) Barclaycard have my account going into default in March 2015 and Hoist also have my account going into default then.  

Should I moreover can I have that rectified? 

 

 

[dx100uk]

win or lose defaults/credit files are nothing to do with courts.

 

your lowells WS was very good and this one just a bit too sparse on what you are trying to say

IMHO too many points just listing a diary even of this or that happening.

might pay you to slightly change it and use yours to rip theirs apart.

 

like say point 4...load of ole waffle trying to hide the fact that the CCA hasn't come from Barclaycard at all but from their filing cabinet and is a cut n paste jobbie.

 

im also a bit sceptical about the default notice and IS it a copy, there a mailmerge line above the address box and it just doesn't look right.

check the balance at that date ib their statements, does it match £36??

 

I also don't like their points 9/10/22 relating to it.

they quote 2 sets of page numbers referring to where in the bundle its located?

 

21 don't forget to rebuff carey as not applicable

 

lastly. I believe that paralegal must be in court so they can be cross examined by you and answer questions? else it can't be referred too?

 

 

 

[Browneyes1929]

wow will look into the points you raise now.  I didn't know that about the paralegal.  The last two times ( lowell and the parking fine for my friend) they just had a local solicitor representing the company certainly not the person who made out the witness statement.

[dx100uk]

opps forget about the 620000 recon agreement

 

read this thread

andy has a good WS there to mull over bits to use

 

there are 100's of hoist ex BC claimform threads here too to look at.

 

dx

 

 

[Browneyes1929]

I checked the statements and the £36 is technically incorrect as they implemented a payment plan in the April where they froze everything and I had to pay £12 from the next month on which showed on the May statement.  

 

They applied my £12 payment to the April statement so they said I missed may june July i.e. 3 payments which wasn't right so the default statement is incorrect.

 

the witness statement is incorrect the statement pages he refers to are not the ones that appertain to the default notice.  

 

Also am I right in saying that the reference to robinson way as a creditor is incorrect as they are just a debt collection agency.

 

 And should I have had a default notice off Hoist as well as the one from barclaycard? 

 

they've only included a notice of Assignment, is that the same as a deed of assignment? and the only information given as to address is the salford one which is the robinson way address.

 

[dx100uk]

only the original creditor can issue a default notice

 

Rway are part of the hoist group.

 

a NOA is just that, it's not the deed and you wont get to see that.

….

 

as for the dn its figures and what they refer too....

you need top point out all these little errors specifically ref'd to their points in your WS.

pull anything in theirs apart in yours bit by bit

 

the more you cast doubt upon their WS content..the weaker their case becomes.

 

don't forget the 620000 agreements and T&C's... they roll out these out in every court claim they raise.

they are not the originals nor what you signed nor what was ever sent to you.

copy and paste from their filing cabinet and not from BC.

 

there are numerous uploaded pdf copies here on CAG in relation to hoist and ex Barclaycard court claims

 

[AndyOrch]

Which post contains your proposed WS  Browneyes ?

 

Andy

[Browneyes1929]

On 16 February 2020 at 17:54, Browneyes1929 said:

hi

 

my court date is the 4th March.

14 days means my defence witness statement needs to be in by Tuesday.

Could someone please double check the redacted copy I've attached.

 

I've also received their bundle and they have quoted "Carey" as the reason for allowing a reconstituted agreement.  

They've also included statements from 2009 showing all charges on the account.

 

 They didn't send those  before just ones for a few months in 2014 when there was no spending on the account.  

However the agreement is still the reconstituted one without my signature. 

 

The last time I included copies of everything which the judge said weren't needed in the end.  

This  time I've just referred to the information I want to highlight (i.e. thats beneficial to me) by page and paragraph number in the claimants bundle.

Thank you

 

 

hoist portfolio defence redacted.pdf 58.9 kB · 2 downloads

 

just to double check does the 14 days include the court date or not?

this one 

did that work? it was posted 16th February

[AndyOrch]

Mmmmmm I must agree ...reads like a timetable of events rather than arguments.....why you conclude with point 17 ?

[Browneyes1929]

ok try this hopefully this is better,  Sense

 

hoist portfolio defence redacted.pdf

 

just realised I meant to take paragraph 17 out its not necessary.

 

the only thing I didn't mention was the £36 should have been 24 and that Barclaycard got to wrong.

 I didn't want to highlight that the real statement is in there.  

If Hoist mention it and the judge allows the new pages can I then point out that error?

 

I also haven't mentioned that there is no proof that I agreed a payment plan should i insert a paragraph asking about that?

 

Actually they haven't even mentioned a payment plan in the witness statement.

 I'll leave it out.  and use it in court if necessary.

 

will that be ok.  

It's in their documents so it is before the court.

[AndyOrch]

Yes a lot better remove 17 and leave it at that. Don't keep adding things that they have not referred to in their statement.

 

Andy