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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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RBS - PPi and life insurance on same claim?


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oh well only 4yrs to go.

what a con from day one...

 

HB this policy was sold together with various PPI products upon taking out an RBS Mortage in 2003, everything else they agreed was mis sold and has been refunded in full.

 

but because they say this is not PPI so is not covered by the changes in DISP waving the 6yrs rule toward anything PPI, reclaiming this is out of time, and to boot the mortgage it was taken out with was fully paid off in 2009...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I'm sure I can just cancel this now though?

 

The weird thing is the RBS agent is talking like she thinks I knew it was optional when the policy started (the bits in bold and underlined)

 

Below I have listed the concerns you raised and overall, I have considered the following:

• You believe your DTA has been mis-sold.

Your mortgage was not an endowment mortgage, so there was no legal requirement to have nor should the bank have made this plan compulsory.

• The only beneficiary was the bank through ultimate direct payment should something have happened to you settling your mortgage sum.

 

When looking into complaints, I am guided by the rules from our Regulators, the Financial Conduct Authority. These rules are known as the Dispute Resolution rules, or DISP rules. These rules place a responsibility on customers to raise any complaint or concerns within a reasonable period of time; a complaint should be raised within six years of when the advice was provided or, if later, within three years from when a customer first became aware (or should have reasonably become aware) that they had cause to complain.

 

The concerns that you have raised above about your DTA were known to you at the time you took it out and therefore you ought to have reasonably been aware that you had cause for complaint at that time.

 

Can I not just reiterate that I only realised in 2019, when I submitted all the claims together?

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Not reclaiming wise no.

But for the sake of £xxpcm till its term ends you have life or poss critical illness/injury cover still worth £1000's if anything happens.

Imho its not worth stopping now as i bet there is no cash in nor cover once you cease payment

 

Dx

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Thank you for all of your help dx

 

I guess I could always express my disappointment as a customer of nearly 30 years with them, nothing to lose.

 

I do tend to agree with your point though

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  • 4 months later...

open

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi dx and all

 

I thought I would have another try at this and explained I felt they had misunderstood my complaint in their comments that I knew it was not compulsory when I the product was added.

The reply from them advised they would actually now investigate and interestingly there is no longer a mention of the time factor and needing to have complained within 3 or 6 years, relevant?

 

My comments for you are the ones in bold and brackets.

 

Here is the outcome:

 

I’m writing further to our recent email exchange. Having considered all the information,

I’m not supporting your complaint and my reasons for this are shown below.

I’m giving you £ as an apology for the time taken to investigate your complaint since

you originally raised it. (this is interesting or a tactic to persuade me not to appeal?)

 

Your complaint

 

You raised the following concerns:

 

• You believe your DTA has been mis-sold.

• Your mortgage was not an endowment mortgage, so there was no legal

requirement to have nor should the bank have made the plan compulsory.

• The only beneficiary was the bank through ultimate direct payment should

something have happened to you settling your mortgage sum.

 

Outcome

 

Our records show that you took your above plan out on a non-advised basis (I do not agree with this as I was told I neeed to have this product but cannot recall when this happened) at your local

branch on 2003. The branch representative that you would have seen wasn’t a

financial adviser and therefore was unable to provide financial advice or make a

recommendation about which plan would best suit your needs.

 

You therefore took your plan out on a self-select basis without either seeking or receiving

any advice from the bank. This would have been explained to you in full before you

decided to proceed.

 

You chose to apply for a DTA with an initial sum assured of £ over twenty-two

years for a minimum premium of £5 per month. You’ve advised us that you took this plan

out for protection for the mortgage you held with the bank at the time.

 

I can see that you had taken out a mortgage with the bank on 1999 for £

over 25 years on a repayment basis. When you took this mortgage out in 1999 your

mortgage offer confirms that it was a condition of your mortgage being granted that you

take out suitable life cover for £. (were they able to make it a condition? And also why was it not added in 1999 but instead in 2003? I am confused about this)

 

As above, the branch representative was not able to provide you with any advice. They

were only trained to be able to provide you with information on the types of protection

plans the bank could offer. It was then up to you to decide which plan you wanted to take

forward if nay.

 

Your plan would have been explained before you decided to proceed, and you were under

no obligation to go ahead with the application.

 

After your plan was issued you would have received your product brochure and policy

booklet, which included your plan document and terms and conditions. These documents

explained the nature of your plan and how it worked. You also would have received your

cancellation notice that allowed you to cancel the plan if you thought it no longer met

meet your needs or if you had simply changed your mind. (I do actually have a letter to this affect in the things I have, relevant?)

 

Life assurance provides a valuable benefit and peace of mind. In the case of a plan taken

out to protect a mortgage, when linked to a mortgage, it ensures that the estate or spouse

of the life assured if applicable has the funds to repay the mortgage debt. In other words,

it is meant to ensure that the surviving family or spouse if applicable aren’t left to repay

the mortgage.

 

I understand that the bank made your plan compulsory. I wasn’t party to the meeting

when you took your plan out. I therefore have to base my decision on the documentation

that we hold. As above, it was a condition of your mortgage in 1999 that you take out

suitable life cover. However, I haven’t been able to find anything that would lead me to

believe that you were told this plan was compulsory in 2003.

 

I appreciate your comment that as the bank has accepted your complaint for your

mortgage and loan Payment Protection Insurance (PPI), you believe this must be the case

for your DTA also, as you understand there is very little difference between the eligibility

criteria for the two.

 

I would like to confirm that PPI and life assurance plans are two different products that

provide very different benefits and even though they may be taken out for the same

mortgage, they aren’t linked in anyway. We are also required to investigate each

complaint on its own merits.

 

PPI is designed to cover your monthly repayments on a mortgage if you are unable to

meet them due to sickness, accident, or unemployment. PPI was also often included in

your monthly mortgage payment unlike life assurance, which you had a separate direct

debit for.

 

A DTA is designed to provide a lump sum to enable you or your estate to repay the

mortgage in the event that you die.

 

Our Decision

 

Although I am mindful of the concerns that you have raised, overall, I’ve concluded that

you were able to make an informed choice to take your plan out. Therefore, I am unable

to uphold your complaint.

 

What are your thoughts about this please?

 

Many thanks

 

E

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54 minutes ago, NGEddie said:

However, I haven’t been able to find anything that would lead me to

believe that you were told this plan was compulsory in 2003.

 

other than the advisor getting a healthy commission back hander for selling it....

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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