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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Hoist claimform - old Sky barclaycard debt ***Claim Discontinued***


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Hello all,

I have a Barclaycard from way back in the day, i was very slowly paying it off,

I was out of work for a few months and they were very nice, froze the account

and when i was back in work insisted on converting it to repayment plan at zero interest, great.

It got a bit difficult at the end of the first year because they said I should have called them to renew the plan.

 

I found out when their ten automated calls a day machine started

which rather removed any goodwill on my side.

After all sorts of nonsense they offered to put me on another plan.

 

Rather less full of gratitude, I sent off a CCA request by recorded post, and it was signed for and opened.

 

Since then, perhaps two months ago, nada, barring a monthly statement pointing out that I hadn't made my minimum payment and lumping on some interest.

 

Can they do that as they are now presumably in breach?

 

Not yet up to speed on Barclaycard,

are they as terrible at keeping CCAs as the others,

it is an old care, comfortably pre 2007 or whatever the significant date is.

 

Ta

Micky

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Hi Micky and good to see you again.

 

Some dates would help us give better suggestions. Like, when did :-

 

1. The a/c fall into arrears.

 

2. You reach a repayment plan.

 

3. You send off a CCA request.

 

4. They start adding interest again.

 

:-)

Edited by slick132

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hmm, well

 

I was out of work in September 2014 and they very nicely froze the account for six months, ! found work after three or four months and called them to go back onto my payments, they insisted the account stay frozen and I make a much reduced payment for a year. At the end of that year they turned the card back on, added interest etc, the first I knew was when they started sending lots and lots of automated calls. When I rang them I got a call centre that were clueless and eventually agreed I was not at fault and promised me a refund of the added interest and a £100 for the calls.

 

Then someone the UK side called me and was rather curt, said it was all my fault for not contacting them to arrange a new plan, I complained formally, they responded by saying it was all my fault but it could have been handled better and paid me some compo. Then they offered me a new repayment plan with minimal interest for a further year.

 

About this time I got annoyed with the messing about and following my apparent success CCAing MNBA/LINK. I thought what the hell and sent a CCA off to Barclaycard over two months ago, it was signed for but otherwise no reply.

 

Earlier this week I got a routine monthly statement showing I was late making a payment and showing them adding interest at what looks like the old fashioned lively interest rate.

 

1. I kinda sorta went into arrears six months ago by mistake when the repayment plan ended but they resolved all that and reset the account following my complaint

 

2. I agreed the latest plan in principle but it was to start when I made the first payment, I haven't done that.

 

3. I sent a CCA off over two months ago, it was signed for but otherwise no response at all.

 

4. From memory of my new minimum payment I'm two months of full interest behind so I guess they gave me a couple of week too start the plan and then turned the card 'on again.

 

And hello again btw

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Hi Micky,

 

Have you suffered any penalty charges during all this or have you avoided them by being proactive.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Hi Slick, there would defo have been some further back in time, not huge amounts but defo some, especially when the card was active

 

Am I right to think that people can still reclaim CC charges in the old bank charges stylee? Compound Interest and so on? Even after sending a CCA and kinda establishing that there isn't one?

 

You're going to tell me to SAR aren't you? I will have a lot of CC statements filed away.

 

In another thread about a CC with another firm that was sold on to a DCA (who have produced a miserable CCA) I'm sitting pretty, can I still SAR the original CC co and claim charges on that one even now? Are they still not very good at producing old statement as the banks were, again I might have a decent amount of statement going back avery long way?

 

Sorry for all the optimistic and ignorant questions.

 

Thanks

Micky

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Hi Micky,

 

Whilst reclaiming bank charges is now not possible, reclaiming CCard charges IS !!

 

If you have statements showing older CCard chgs, you should reclaim them in full. With BC, we still suggest you claim resitutionary interest as well. If you don't find the statements, a SAR may help although BC will pretend they don't store data beyond 6 years.

 

If you have other cards to discuss, post a link and we'll assist on the other thead(s).

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello all

 

A firm letter yesterday saying contact immediately or else Default etc etc and take money from you other Barclays accounts, the joint account is with them.

 

Can I send a letter saying the account is in dispute because they have not complied with the CCA request? Or is that just they can't take me to court without producing one? I appreciate they can default and sell the debt on etc etc

 

I'm making arrangements to move the joint account on to another bank, if the account is always overdrawn can they still take money, a fair lump goes through it every month to pay the bills

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Hi Micky,

 

Write to BC saying the a/c is in clear dispute due to their failure to comply.

 

If you're able to make ongoing monthly payments, it may be worth doing, to avoid the hassle if you don't. Moving the bank a/c would not then be necessary.

 

Have you found all your old BC statements to set the reclaiming process in motion.

 

If you keep the joint a/c, they could raid the a/c if they pay'ts the take don't take you over any existing o/d facility.

 

:-)

Edited by slick132
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Hi Slick, ta, that all makes sense

 

They Defaulted me yesterday, not bothered about credit rating, I've opened a new Joint Account and just need to get the Account Switching service to get it all moved over before payday at the end of the month

 

Are they even allowed to Default and add charges if the account is in dispute? Does it stay in dispute until the supply a valid copy of the CCA? ie should the account be effectively frozen?

 

Not yet to statements, been busy and that seemed to less time critical that other things on the go

 

Thanks again

Micky

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Hi Micky,

 

I thought collection activity should cease until the CCA Request is complied with so complain to BC.

 

Work on finding those old statements.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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  • 3 weeks later...

Howdy, posted an Account in Dispute letter yesterday, no other news but I'm going to see what the office cabinet holds in the way of BarclayCard statements.

 

Thanks

Micky

 

Hi

 

I've found a folder with statements for Barclaycard, MBNA and OPus dating back to the end of 2009, there may be others in another folder.

 

Am I right to think I put all the charges of any kind in to a Stat Interest spreadsheet for each card and then start claim for each, that easy?

 

Thanks

Micky

 

Can I claim any of the following?

 

Interest on cash balance?

Interest on Standard balance?

Interest on Default Sums?

 

And is stat interest at 8% the bread and butter safe claim?

 

Is gong for contractual Interest more risky and likely to actually go to court

 

(I know I'm being lazy for not reading, I wil, promise)

 

Thanks

Micky

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24.9% using the cisheet

and no you cant reclaim those you listed.

only the fixed sum penalty fees.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Micky,

 

Read through BC *WON* threads here, for guidance on reclaiming - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?97-Barclays-BCard-and-Woolwich-successes

 

They'll explain most of what you need to know about reclaiming BC default chgs plus restitutionary int't @24.9%.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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  • 1 month later...

Hello all,

nothing to report really, quite a few calls from BC,

a letter Defaulting me,

 

 

eventually a call got me, as soon as the chap identified himself,

I told him that the account was in dispute as they had not complied with a CCA request

and they should not be adding interest and charges to the account but they were, and hung up.

 

I've since had a letter telling me they were dealing with my complaint

 

SAR not sent yet, it's the 'agg' of getting to the post office for the postal order ...

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Hi Micky,

 

Get the SAR sorted asap.

 

The longer you leave it, the greater the chance you'll not get back older data which BC may say is destroyed on a rolling basis.

 

:-)

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oooo, there was a reason to post other than a general update

 

I moved the joint account to another bank as advised so all good there,

 

after a month odd Barclays bank have now asked to clear my overdraft,

 

I haven;t responded yet but plan to repay a small amount monthly until it's cleared,

all humdrum non contentious stuff I assume?

 

Are the BC account and dispute effectively separate from the barclays debt?

 

Thanks

Micky

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Hi Micky,

 

You've surely been around long enough to know that Barclays Bank, BC, Barclays Partner Finance, etc are ALL part of the Barclays Group.

 

As such, assets held in any one account are liable to set off to another Barclays Group debt.

 

Having said that, each dispute is individual and, if you have no credits in any account, you have nothing to lose really.

 

:-)

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The SAR will give you info on all accounts whereas the dispute letter will only relate to the account you are disputing

 

with regard to the SAR, Barclays are not always quick to get you the info in 40 days and will wriggle on anything over 6 yrs old, but if you remind them that their "microfiche system" IS a relevant filing system, they will usually then comply with all the info you need

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  • 1 month later...

Hello all, long time

 

I had a few letters that i suspect are all routine and dull,

 

A rather furious legalese one saying the CCA they send me on time in Feb was perfect, quoting all sorts of case law including one that proved that something without my signature or a date on was still an agreement, wha?

 

I replied in writing to say I had not received a CCA and had therefore not paid anything, believing the account to be in dispute/not valid etc and to send me the CCA

 

And now a series of letters from Arvato, pay up or else, then make us an offer and now today another pay up or else we sell the debt

 

Am I right to think this is all indicative of them not having a CCA to send me?

Send a new CCA request should they sell the debt?

 

As ever thanks for the advice and reassurance

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Arvato are our old friends BCW

And can be safely ignore

Extremely lowlife

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 months later...

Hello again, the debt has moved onto someone else now, Alliance something or other I think.

 

They've callled on the landline at 8:30am most days last week,

I've told them that no CCA has been sent to me and hung up so far,

are they allowed to call like that under the circumstances?

 

 

It's not like the calls are going to go anywhere after all is it.

Doesn't bother me but it ags the wife and the kids and the mother in law

 

Thanks

Micky

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Did you get the sar back micky?

Done the spreadsheets yet?

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I am not legally trained or qualified, any advice i offer is gleaned from experience and general knowledge, if you are still unsure after receiving advice please seek legal advice.

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hello all

 

apologies for my feeble updating of this thread, been on seven day weeks and rather let paperwork slide

 

I'm clearing a mountain of post and picked up something I clean forgot about at the time, it' something that came back in response to my CCA in June. They call it a 'Copy Application'.

 

It appears to be a print out of whatever I might have entered into a web application so personal details of me and my employers, it has 'Created on xx/xx/2007 and it's stamped 'SKY CARD, xx xxx 2007, SUBJECT TO CREDIT APPROVAL' and someone has written on in biro a 12 digit number. (I've xxed out some of the dats and times)

 

Does that satisfy the CCA request?

 

Sorry about me, Arvarto seemed to have moved it on to someone calling themselves Allied International Credit in late October, they call a lot and try to take me through security at which point I say I don't give personal details to cold callers.

 

I'll update on my SAR and spreadsheet as I start catching up with things

 

Thanks

Micky

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Arvarto is the new name for BCW bucanon Clarke and wells, AIC is just another of their trading names.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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