Newlyn control of goods letter re CTAX

[dx100uk]

theres no forced right of entry with CTAX

in all effects you simply ignore them as long as there is no car around for them to levy against.

 

it looks like you should have received an NOE at your present address if as I said, the council is the same one you pay CTAX to NOW since October as to prior.

they knew your new address, wheres the NOE gone?

[iempire]

thats the million dollar question. it certainly hasnt come to my house. it is the same council.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Think I shall invest in a new keyboard!

[rasherton]

Yes the council only need to send to the last known address.

We're talking about the bailiffs here though - they are required to send the NOE to the debtor's usual address.

 

A quote from the Sheriffs Office has also been posted which is clear that if the bailiff discovers the debtor is at a different address the bailiff needs to send a new NOE to that address.

[iempire]

Well I'm basically thinking I need to contact Newlyn ASAP so I think I will write explaining I have no NOE and that they need to send the correct paperwork before they can take any action

[rasherton]

Well I'm basically thinking I need to contact Newlyn ASAP so I think I will write explaining I have no NOE and that they need to send the correct paperwork before they can take any action

 

Contact the council as the bailiffs are acting on their behalf. Newlyn's will in all likelihood just try to brush it off.

[iempire]

I emailed the council this morning and await a response.

I haven't contacted Newlyn

[E Munch]

People are confusing two things here.

1. There is the ablilty or otherwise to charge the fees for entering the different stages of the Schedule 12 process and

2. the ability or otherwise to take control of goods if the Notice of Enforcment has not been sent to where you usually live.

 

The two fees involved so far are as below. You can see from the description of the stages in regulation 5 of the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014 that the stage has a specific start point and from regulation 4(3) that the whole stage fee is due before all the parts of the stage have taken place.:-

The £75 Compliance stage fee and that is due as soon as the instruction is received by the enforcment agent. Although the sending of the NoE will normally be part of the compliance stage it is not required to be sent to justify the fee being due.

The £235 enforcement stage fee (plus any percentage for larger debts) which is due as soon as the enforcement stage commences which is said to be "from the first attendance at the premises in relation to the instructions..." It does not say the visit has to be for the purpose of taking control of goods.

From this you can see the £310 can be due even if a Notice of Enforcement (NoE) has not been sent to where you usually live.

 

From the way the OP describes it, the enforcement agent in this case does seem to have only sent one NoE and that went to an old address so it was not where the debtor usually lived at the time of it was sent. Becuase of this they cannot legally take control of goods.

 

If you are proposing to pay the debt you would be best to point out that they cannot TCoG unless they resend a NoE to where you usually live and allow 7 clear days after it is sent before TCoG. As I said, however, it does not seem legally to invalidate the enforcement stage fee. I would try to appeal to the council to tell the enforcemnt agent to waive the enforcement stage fee as a gesture of good will (you never know!) and accept payment of the council tax debt plus the £75 compliance stage fee. That might be easy if you are going to pay in full immediately but I assume you will be trying to offer a payment arrangement. If you do that they would have time to send a new NoE and make another visit when a new enforcement stage fee would be due even if they'd waived the first one.

[Guest Washford Mill]

The above post is not correct.

 

Newlyn cannot ambush you without first giving you notice. Your first thoughts were the correct ones.

 

Whereas a council are only required to send notices to your last known address, bailiffs enforcing by way of the Schedule 12 procedure must send notice to your usual address. Until they have done this, they are still in the compliance stage and cannot jump to the enforcement stage just because it is financially beneficial for them to do so. Any visit that Newlyn have made to date has been carried out under the compliance stage.

 

The fee structure has been designed to afford debtors an opportunity to comply at an early stage thus enabling them the chance to avoid incurring unnecessary fees. To turn up without giving you notice has deprived you of that opportunity. It is akin to not sending notice at all and posting a letter by hand, charging £310 for doing so. If a bailiff does not have the ability to seize goods, he most certainly isn’t acting in the enforcement stage.

 

Finally to charge £235 for hand delivering a worthless piece of paper would almost certainly fall into the realms of maladministration, especially if there was not an ability to take contol of goods.

 

I don’t know what you wrote to the council but I would make sure that you include the above. Newlyn may even remove the fee and there’s no harm in contacting them, asking for your statutory notice in order to afford you the opportunity of settling before further fees are incurred.

[Peterbard]

Its a very interesting point raised by Emunch, and one which requires some thought.

 

As far as I see it , EM is saying that whilst the statutory notice is required in order for the procedure to advance and goods seized. The fee is still due, he says, , because the visit has been made.(please correct me if I have this wrong). I find it hard to agree.

 

There is nothing in the procedure which prescribes a pre enforcement visit, surely if one were made it would be within compliance..

[Peterbard]

Con others?

 

You mean like telling them they have to pay £235 that has been unlawfully added?

 

I’m beginning to wonder if you actually have a brain but OK, I will go. I need this stupidity like I need a boil on the backside.

 

At some point This poster needs to learn how to put "in my opinion" after his remarks. After all the record states quite clearly that his advice is not always accurate.

Besides isn't this kind of hostile insulting post something he is always accusing others of?

[Bailiff Advice]

Would I be right in thinking that due to them tracing me to my new address that that proves they haven't given me notice of enforcement

 

Paragraph 7(1) of Schedule 12 of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 states;

 

(1)An enforcement agent may not take control of goods [u]unless the debtor has been given notice.[/u]

 

Regulation 6(1) of the Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013 states;

 

Minimum period of notice

 

6.—(1) Subject to paragraph (3), notice of enforcement must be given to the debtor not less than 7 clear days before the enforcement agent takes control of the debtor’s goods

 

A prerequisite of taking control of goods is that the debtor must first be given a Notice of Enforcement as provided under Para 7 of Schedule 12.

 

If a new address for the debtor has been identified then common sense would dictate that the debtor had not been given a Notice of Enforcement and accordingly, a fresh Notice must be provided and I struggle to understand how it could be argued that an 'enforcement fee' of £235 could possibly be owed. It simply cannot be the case. It would also appear to be an abuse of Paragraph 19 of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents which states that:

 

Enforcement Agents must act within the law at all times, including all legislation....

 

[brassnecked]

Isnt it the case then that Newlyn are trying to be creative with fees and add the Enforcement fee regardless, perhaps they will try to add a second one and hope the debtor pays up when they fetch up at the new address and knock on the door?

[Bailiff Advice]

Isnt it the case then that Newlyn are trying to be creative with fees and add the Enforcement fee regardless, perhaps they will try to add a second one and hope the debtor pays up when they fetch up at the new address and knock on the door?

 

I can say with all honesty, that I have yet to come across even one case where a fresh Notice of Enforcement had been issued, and an enforcement agent attempted to charge a 2nd enforcement fee.

[brassnecked]

Hopefully OP can get it sorted BA, and Newlyn aren't reverting to their old ways.

[iempire]

Apologies I've not been online,

still no Reply from the council (email sent 6 days ago)

I haven't contacted newlyn but have been receiving texts,

today's being

"REMOVAL TRUCK BOOKED TODAY AT 3PM as per COURT ORDER to TAKE CONTROL OF GOODS, to AVOID ACTION CALL 07.... Quoting REF *******"

To which I ignore.

 

I'm unaware if a NOE was sent to previous address but if it was it was certainly after I had moved out.

 

Point I have noticed is that my credit report was trace searched on the 9th and 10th of October by a company called UK search limited which seems to perform this searches on behalf of debt collectors.

 

I had already registered in the electrol roll and for amenities etc at my current address by this point and as I have no other debt I can only assume it was on behalf of Newlyn

Edited January 16, 2019 by dx100uk
spacing

[dx100uk]

well go ring the council up and ASK?