UKCPM/gladstones Windscreen PCN Claimform - Vista Centre, Salisbury Rd, Hounslow TW4 6JQ ** Claim Dismissed**

[maclarke]

Hello all.

 

Apologies for yet another UKCPM parking charge question.

But I would like specific help if you are able to.

I would be very grateful.

 

I went to a place called the vista centre and it took me about 30 mins to pay for parking.

 

I arrived at Vista Point at approximately 14:30 for a 14:45 appointment.

 

The site had a ridiculous payment system (via installing an app or calling an automated number - where the computer didn’t recognise my voice) and caused me to almost miss a Drug and Alcohol test for a new job.

Not easy for any user to pay for parking.

No cash option was displayed.

 

I called and downloaded the app, but both systems were not able to process my payment after several attempts.

 

Eventually, I found the only parking machine and paid using cash (for 1hour). It was the only 1 on site, which was not displayed or obvious.

 

I have email evidence and complaints to the drug and alcohol test company for not informing me of the difficulty.

 

I undertook my Drug & Alcohol test, which overran due to my being late to pay for parking. (Also, you are not allowed to leave the room until the test in finished).

 

Not being able to use the app or leave the room during my test, I could not extend my parking duration.

I therefore returned to my car approximately 10-11 minutes after my ticket expired - finding a £60 charge.

 

Without knowing about private parking charges,

I wrote to UKCPM to appeal

 

they said I need to appeal to IAS.

Which I did

- I also wrote back to UKCPM to tell them I wanted to appeal (this was done within 7 days).

 

I also registered with IAS and for some reason they said (im not sure if I did or not) confirm my email address, therefore the appeal can no longer go ahead.

 

1) Should I pay the charge?

2) I write to them showing my address (and email). Is it too late?

3) If they write back, can I just write "Return to Sender, the Recipient no longer lives here" and forget about the claim?

 

Many thanks,

matt

[maclarke]

Hi dx.

 

it doesnt say fine.

 

It says "Parking Charge Notice"

 

I'll answer your questions in the next reply

 

Answer to your questions:

 

1 The date of infringement? - 12th March 2018

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? Y

 

I cannot upload to this site until i've posted 10 times (apparently)

 

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide] - Yes...only to my first letter appealing the charge (at the moment)

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] N

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? Y- using the IAS

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? UKCPM

 

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Vista Centre, Houslow. Location Code: 565

 

Current documents / communication with UKCPM

 

Answer to your questions (UPDATED):

 

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement? 12th March 2018

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? Y

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. Now Uploaded - see pdf

 

has there been a response? Y

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. See PDF

 

If you haven't appealed yet – n/a

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? n/a

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] N

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] My response (not NTK) mentioned IAS appeal service

 

5 Who is the parking company? UKCPM

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Vista Centre, Salisbury Road, Hounsow, Hounslow TW4 6JQ

windscreen pcm.pdf

Edited May 17, 2018 by maclarke

[maclarke]

thank you for that.

 

Your comments have been noted if it happens again.

 

I'll let you know if they reply.

[maclarke]

Thank you, but didn't know the difference between council enforced tickets and private company notices at the time

 

I'll go back to the site to take photos (as previously requested).

 

ALSO, I received a demand letter from UKCPM today. Any advice?

2 - Formal Demand.pdf

Edited May 22, 2018 by maclarke
reference number displayed on pdf

[maclarke]

ok.... I was just checking if it was actually the reference number was the issue. It clearly was. Thanks for looking after my interests.

 

Thats interesting to know about the lack of planning permission.

 

I'm planning to go back to the site on friday/saturday to take photos of the signage for you kind folk.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[maclarke]

Hello All,

 

As promised, please see photos of signs along with a map and brief explanations and further information.

 

Many thanks

Photos of signs and area.pdf

[maclarke]

Hi all...so what do you think I should do about this letter?>

[maclarke]

Hi All.

 

I got a letter from DRP today.

 

From the other threads i understand i shouldn't worry about this letter?

letter - september.pdf

[maclarke]

Hey Silverfox (and all),

 

I've got a couple more letters since the one above.... the second one I haven't opened. I've written "Return to sender, Person does not live here" on the envelope. Do you think that would deter them?

 

many thanks

[maclarke]

I don't think I explained myself properly.

 

 

I didn't send anything - I wrote it on the envelope (thinking it might deter them) then I asked this forum.

 

 

Everyone said not to send, so I didn't.

[maclarke]

Hi all,

 

please see attached the following 2 letters that I received.

 

 

docs1.pdf

[maclarke]

Happy new year all.

 

It has come.. Gladstone solicitors have eventually written to me.

 

What do think my next course of action should be?

 

docs2.pdf

[maclarke]

Hello All,

 

Update - I have received 2 Letters before Claim recently.

I understand this is now a bit more serious. What do you think is my next course of action?

letter Before claim1.pdf letter Before claim2.pdf

[maclarke]

Thanks EB.

 

I'll write the letter and let you know what happens.

[maclarke]

Hi Guys,

they replied to my letter.

Please see the attachments - the whole thing seems to be a waste of everyones time.

 

To refresh your minds, when this "contravention" happened, i tried every effort to pay for additonal time, but as I was in an alcohol and drugs test and i couldnt leave the room to top up the ticket. Also, their phones systems didnt work to pay over the phone.

 

Gladstones_Reply.pdf

 

the letter i sent is as attached

Parking Appeal - Gladstones.pdf

[maclarke]

thanks Eric,

I'll steer clear of writing a reply.

[maclarke]

Hi Eric (and all).

 

I just received another letter (please see attached).

 

Do you think this will go further? It's gotten to a point where I would like to go to a tribunal (or whatever)and argue the case. 

 

It's ridiculous

Gladstone 05-August.pdf

[maclarke]

Hi all..

it looks like Gladstone are serious about taking me to small claims court.

What should i do now?

Looks like I need to prepare for a trip to Northampton.

 

I'm moving flat soon and was hoping that I could ignore this and move on with life

- i guess not.

 

 

[maclarke]

Does this mean that i'm likely to lose?

 

I don't want a CCJ to show on my credit score

[maclarke]

thanks again, requested information included below as requested:

 

Name of the Claimant: UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LIMITED
Claimants Solicitors: GLADSTONES SOLICITORS LIMITED
 
Date of issue – 07 NOV 2019
 

date to acknowledge = 25 NOV 2019

 

date to submit defence = 09 DEC 2019 
 
What is the claim for –  
1.The driver of the vehicle with registration xxxxxxx (the ‘Vehicle’) parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the ‘Contract’) at VISTA CENTRE – 50 SALISBURY ROAD HOUNSLOW MIDDLESEX TW4 6JQ, on 12/03/2018 thus incurring the parking charge (the ‘PCN’).

 

2.The PCN was not paid within 28 days of issue. The Claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the Defendant as the driver/keeper of the Vehicle.

 

3.Despite demands being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

4.THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £100 for the PCN, £60.00 contractual costs pursuant to the Contract and PCN terms and conditions, together with statutory interest of £20 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8.00% per annum, continuing at £0.04 per day.

 

What is the value of the claim? £255

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim?  UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LIMITED

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No
 

[maclarke]

Ok thank you, gents.

 

I've done the following:

• registered and submitted my acknowledgment of service on the Moneyclaim.gov.uk online website (using your instruction above).
• drafted a letter that i'll send this coming Monday.

Just to be sure, do I await the details from the Solicitor AND THEN submit my defence and counterclaim online (before 9th December 2019)?

 

Should I consider getting legal advise?

 

[maclarke]

"you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]"

 

ok understood

[maclarke]

Hi there... I've seen a few examples of defence letters on here. Can you recommend which ones would suit my case best?

 

Many thanks

[maclarke]

dx, As requested:

 

Queries are made in red.
Date of Statement: xx December 2019
Claim Number: XXXXXX
Between: UK CAR Park Management Limited and XXXXXXX

 

1.    It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXX XXX.

 

2.    It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner. How do I check who the landowner is?

 

3.    If there was a contract, it is denied that the parking charge is incorporated into the contract. As per Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking [1971] 2 QB 163, the relevant term must be made known before a contract was formed. Here, the charge was not incorporated into the contract because [explain] – I assumed this means no contract was agreed?

 

4.    The amount is a penalty, and the penalty rule is still engaged, so can be clearly distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis which the Judges held was 'entirely different' from most ordinary economic contract disputes for the following reasons:-

 

a)    The Claimant has no commercial justification
b)    The Claimant did not follow the BPA Code of Practice, allowing a MINIMUM grace period of 10 minutes.
c)    The Claimant is not the landowner and suffers no loss whatsoever as a result of a vehicle parking at the location in question
d)    The amount claimed is a charge and evidently disproportionate to any loss suffered by the Claimant and is therefore unconscionable.
e)    The Court of Appeal for the Beavis case made a clear reference to the fact that their decision was NOT relevant to pay-per-hour type car parks.

 

5.    A parking ticket was purchased. However, after much difficulty. The Defendant made several attempts to initially pay for parking via telephone and the indicated telephone-based application, which were both declined by the claimant’s system of payment. The Defendant was attending a Drug and Alcohol (D&A) test based on the conditions of a new employer. The delay in obtaining a parking ticket caused significant delay. The Defendant was late to the appointment and was not permitted to leave the test until indicated by the examiner. Options made available to extend parking durations remotely did not function. Please refer to Attachment 1 – an email of complaint sent on the said day of apparent contravention (12th March 2018). My own wording. Is this ok?

 

6.    The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.
 

[maclarke]

Hi guys.

 

can you please help me with the following points?:

• How do i determine who the landover is?
• how can i develop point 3?