Pip tribunal hearing/advice **WON**

[Bazooka Boo]

Appeal the decision first and foremost, get that lethargic process started.

 

Get your MP involved also, once they have looked at the flawed decision again, and upheld their decision, then it's time to start ripping to shreds the flimsy interrogation papers the fake HCP completed.

[Bazooka Boo]

AFAIK, you don't need to point out where they 'erred in law'' at this stage, all you're doing is telling them that the decision is a fantasy, and to go through the motions of claiming to look at it a second time, before you then take it to the first tier tribunal, it's at this point, after the FTT decision, that you then need to show where they (FTT) erred in law for you to escalate it to the upper tier tribunal.

 

Unless they have, of course, moved the goal posts.

[Bazooka Boo]

Do you have use of a disability advisor? DIAL or some other?

[Bazooka Boo]

I on the other hand, used D.I.A.L (Disability Information Advice Line) and they secured my PIP first time round!

 

ESA on the other hand, I fought them for three years to win, after I had filled in the form myself.

 

But my situation is different, I need someone to help fill forms and explain them to me.

[Bazooka Boo]

I wanted to attend but somehow the dates for Hearing got mixed up, annoyed really, but it was a technical error beyond my control.

 

That may be a blessing in disguise!

 

If the DJ demanded an 'Oral Hearing' to be held, then there is your error in law..

[Bazooka Boo]

If the DJ told them to resit the tribunal and have an ''Oral'' hearing, and you were not present, then they have erred in law, as you were unable to verbally put your side accross.

[Bazooka Boo]

OK this is only the FTT yes??

 

You need leave to appeal to the UTT on the grounds that they erred in law now.

 

And you really do need to find a disability advisor to take this on and direct you.

 

I can't help but feel something is missing here, and with the best will in the world, you're going off half cocked and they're exploiting your lack of knowledge.

 

In a very very short space of time, you've gone through the initial interrogation, their refusal and magic wand that cures all ills, the MR, and then the FTT?

 

Like I said, it took me three years to go jump through all their hoops and then get to the UTT before a sucessful outcome.

 

What did the DJ state must happen at the tribunal?

I stronlgy doubt it said it should only be a paper shuffling exercise, and you didn't need to attend?

 

There is plenty of scope to fire this further up the chain, however, you need to find out ''exactly'' what documents they relied on to come to their decision, AND if they were part of your argument that the initial decision should be overturned, then you 'could' say they 'erred in law' as the evidence relied on was flawed.

 

Have you demanded a SAR?

 

Do you have the RoP (Record of proceedings) and SoR (Statement of reasons)?

[Bazooka Boo]

IF, you've not got sight of ALL of the information/evidence they (DWP) used in coming to the decision, then you need to send them a SAR, which is free https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-request-for-personal-information

 

Once you have that info, (40 calender days) then you can go through it and highlight all of the discrepancies within it to then mount a successful tribunal.

 

As you were not present at the tribunal, then they should send you the outcome of said tribunal, and any instructions if you feel that they erred in law at coming to that decision.

 

The SAR will be two, three, or four A4 envelopes stuffed full of all of your dealings with the DWP from day one.

 

AFAIK, and from what I can remember, you need to write to the judge and request a 'SoR' along with the 'RoP', which will show exactly what went on in the tribunal.

 

What you're after doing is to pick apart their argument and find the error in law to then proceed to ask to appeal to the UTT.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes they will always rely on what evidence suits them best, something which I had made crystal clear to the DJ at one of my tribunals, ''How can they refer to, and use my condition in 2007 then ignore an up to date diagnosis in 2013?''

 

They will cherry pick information to suit their needs, which is why you bring them to account, and demand ALL of the paperwork they used in reaching their decision, this way then you can see exactly what they have ignored and what they have used.

 

The Decision Notice is one piece of evidence, the SoR will tell you how they arrived at that decision, and what evidence they relied on, the RoP will tell you how the tribunal was conducted, (in your absence) and may only be two or three sentences which the panel will have signed.

 

Try and relax, you have a month from the date of the DN to appeal, which can be delayed under certain circumstances, ie you are waiting for the SAR to land on your doormat, so you can find out where they erred in law so you can mount a successful challenge in the UTT.

 

Send them the SAR, recorded delivery, signed for or whatever, just send it but ensure you have ev idence you sent it.

 

Then try and find someone who deals with these tribunals, as they will be able to help you quicker, and will be able to direct you as to what it is you need.

 

Is your DR onside?

[Bazooka Boo]

Need to try and stay focused SF, as emotional and criminal it is, we have to play them at their own game, fight them with their own rules, exposing them and humiliating them in the best way possible.

 

Highlighting just how Dickensian they really are.

 

Use your time wisely, research as much as possible, including the HCP, what qualifications they have, any expertise they may or may not have to assess someone with your particular needs/issues/disability, if they are a bona fide GP, complaining to the GMC.

 

Lodge a formal complaint with ATOS regarding their flawed assessment system, and the fake HCP they use to hit the targets they have been given.

 

All the time, copy in your local MP, regardless whether they care or not, it needs to be hammered home to them all, that if they were to treat a dog like this, they'd be put in prison.

 

Keep a diary of events, collate names, letters, info, anything and everything prepare to be in it for the long haul, like I say, three miserable dark years it took me, then another 18 months to get the Independent Case Examiner (ICE) to uphold my complaint, and award me £100 compo from the DWP.

 

Not a massive amount by any stretch, but it was a win, and the next time your name crosses their desks, they'll know that they need to be absolutely water tight and 100% accurate, or you'll nail em to the floor!

[Bazooka Boo]

ATrOciouS must follow their own complaints guidelines, IF they don't, and are attempting to circumnavigate your right to complain, then YOU raise the complaint to THEIR next level.

 

This gives you an idea of how to fight them; https://www.scribd.com/document/97651322/Using-the-Atos-Complaints-Procedure

 

If your MP says to complain in a particular fashion, then IMO do so, but all the time, making him aware that it is outside of this departments complaints guidelines.

 

Don't stop complaining, and keep copies of their mistakes, because you might need to take this all the way to the ICE, and even the P&HSO... https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/making-complaint/complain-us-getting-started/complaint-forms

[Bazooka Boo]

Excellent WELL DONE!!

 

It's a start definitely.

 

Have they advised on a new hearing/assessment date?

 

Are they telling the FTT to reconvene AND use different tribunal panel? (Which should be the case)

 

What you 'might' find is that the DWP will string it out to the enth degree, hack the DJ off, who will tell them that they are out of time, and to reinstate the award from the date of your last tribunal, then you will get a nice little bit of backpay.

 

BUT, continue with the complaints, and fire it off to the ICE, https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/independent-case-examiner

 

When it lands on their mat, they will get in touch with the DWP/JCP and find out how far down their complaints procedure you are, IF you've not exhausted their complaints procedure, then they (DWP/JCP) will write to you and look into your complaint, then when they fail at rectifying it, you can escalate it to ICE.

 

So it is the DWP you are complaining about, ATrOciouS works for them, they (DWP) are ultimately responsible for their actions, they have no wriggle room, regardless of what they might say!

[Bazooka Boo]

AFAIK, the previous judgement/hearing is now null & void, so it's like it never took place, the SoR and RoP 'should' be available in the SAR.

 

However, the next tribunal will most likely lapse, and you technically win by default, with payments reinstated and a backpay, just in time for Xmas!!

 

Sit tight and await their next move, and ensure you have all of your arguments in a folder/collated, so IF they do decide to attempt to rely on their lies and boot you off social security, you can win your case.

[Bazooka Boo]

Most certainly!

 

Your SAR will contain everything the DWP has from the first day of dealing with you many moons ago, so it will contain the SoR and RoP.

[Bazooka Boo]

Excellent!

[Bazooka Boo]

I would definitely try and get representation yes.

[Bazooka Boo]

Good! Give em both barrels, remember to keep a record of any expenses you incur providing them with this evidence.

[Bazooka Boo]

Here you go SF, see my post on the corruption in the DWP http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?481070-DWP-amp-GOVT-get-a-hiding-AGAIN!

[Bazooka Boo]

No read it again, just because someone fails to claim within the month timescale DOES NOT mean the appeal can't be heard, as the total time limit is 13 months, under certain circumstances.

[Bazooka Boo]

AFAIK, if you were refused an appeal simply because you were over the month time limit, then you have grounds to appeal not simply because they fabricated the evidence to boot you off social security, but because they have failed to take into account the 13 month time limit therefore not adhering to their own rules, as skewed and bent as they are!

[Bazooka Boo]

I would have assumed that all the medical evidence and on which the DWP made there decision would have been in their bundle of evidence

 

Not at all, never assume anything, unless you gave them permission to access your doctors notes prior to an appeal, then they won't have seen the evidence, at each appeal, you will be expected to have provided them with medical evidence that you're relying on to expose their flawed decision.

 

YOU have to provide ALL evidence YOU are relying on to win.

[Bazooka Boo]

Hence the need to submit a SAR and find out exactly what info they have used in reaching their decision, AND to then question why they failed to take xyz into account.

 

I personally have argued this very case with them, ''How can they come to a decision when they don't have all of the facts''.

 

All they will say is that it is up to the claimant to provide any relevant information at the time the claim is made.

 

Every time they ignore or 'cherry pick' which information they choose to rely on, then you inform them to look at xyz which you sent them on dd/mm/yyyy.

 

We know they lie, we know they have targets, we know they ignore facts, which is why they need to be exposed and embarrassed for not looking at the facts that they already have in front of them.

 

Do you have the evidence they have, and what they used in making your assessment?

[Bazooka Boo]

So you now have information you need in which to escalate it to the ICE?

[Bazooka Boo]

my dads bigger than your dad, yawn yawn yawn...

[Bazooka Boo]

Has anyone got the statistics which identifies how many deaths or suicides have been linked to claimants being denied PIP, whilst previously being in receipt of DLA..

 

AFAIK, 11600 deaths of claimants found to be 'fit for work'.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/356537/response/880273/attach/3/2016%203255%20Response.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1