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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Dear All,

I received an email today from Stockslegal stating I have not responded to previous nor arranged repayment of my outstanding liability.

 

 

In the circumstances our instructions are to commence legal proceedings against you..

 

It goes on to say in terms of prospective legal proceedings they ask me to please note that our clients position, HSBC, is fully reserved in terms of the choice between

a) Debt revery proceedings or

b) Bankruptcy..

 

There is some more info giving me another 7 days to make proposals to pay the debt.

Then the last paragraph says please note proceedings will be served at your last known place of residence.

If we are successful in obtaining a judgement against you we will seek to enforce the same against you to recover our clients debt.

 

Can enlightened readers kindly share their thoughts and advice as this has of course got me very worried.

 

I am not in a position to pay the full debt back unless over many years and I cant become bankrupt or I may lose the house which my family needs to live in, and this would put me much further into debt.

 

Many thanks.

 

They have also emailed my wife directly, surely this isnt right.

How on earth they got her private email address when we were not together at the time or indeed is this anything to do with her.

Edited by 230PPhaggis
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Have a read of this linked where someone is facing a similar situation

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?471877-Dubai-Car-Finance-debt-being-chased-in-the-UK-by-Stockslegal-limited/page2

 

How much is the debt approx ?

 

What type of debt ? E.g Private bank loan, credit card

 

When did you stop paying ?

 

You can end up with a court judgement against you, because the claim has gone to an old UK address and the claimant has won by default. They would not have had to supply any documents to the court, because the claim was not defended. Trying to then set aside the court judgement and to defend the claim would be difficult.

 

Best advice is not to hide and to make them provide all documents in English. If it looks like you are not an easy target, then they might not bother to go all the way through a coutt claim.

 

They obviously know from UK records you are married, but might not have current residential address.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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180k AED, I think its a credit card ,but it was so long ago. Stopped paying in 2009 early 2010.

 

There has been no claim yet apart from the letter. My point is I will wish to defend the claim.

 

Thank you.

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bar pers stuff can you copy the email here please as it is not your version of what it says..

 

 

worst fleecers out there for UAE debts that are owed to no-one and simply line their pockets

most are also state barred anyway. or very close

they've waited all this time so they can add 6yrs of interest too incase you are mug enough to contact them.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes copy and paste the email to this thread.

 

It can't be that difficult to find your current address, so i wonder why an email was sent. Perhaps they are not totally sure you are in the UK.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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had to remove your attachment

as we can see thru pen!

as the guide points out

can you redact properly and repostt as per the upload

 

 

but

that's a threat-o-gram

doesn't say will anything if you read it properly.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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help if I typed upload properly too...:lol:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I would think the Dubai Bank would have to have a court judgement in Dubai, before a UK court would look at it, given the debt goes back to 2009/10.

I don't think the foreign judgements act limitations period allowing more than 6 years to go to court means any direct access to UK court.

I think there has to be a Dubai judgement first and then they can try to transfer to a UK court with the Dubai limitations period applying which from memory is 20 years.

 

If Stockslegal know your UK address and they are certain of their legal position to enforce the debt in the UK, why are they not issuing a letter before action followed by relevant court application.

 

If they are sending standard debt collection threatograms, it means they don't know whether they can proceed to enforce the debt legally.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Not being a legal eagle I am glad to hear it is a threat o gram, however if I read it with my common or garden knowledge then it seems to me the last paragraph does say "Please note proceedings will be served at your last known...etc and that they will"

 

The debt is from 1st quarter 2009 I recall. I had left Dubai by then. Thank you for your input and help. I will donate.

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no read it properly [ps ive removed the ref number in your scan!!]

 

its not saying they WILL issue proceeding..

 

its saying if they do it will be issued to your last uk address.

 

the devil in threat-o-grams is ALWAYS in the fine detail.

 

sorry but as with all these UAE debts

its a massive fleecing exercise...

 

they would bother going to such extents if they really thought they'd win

they'd simply do it.

 

but a 20p threat-o-gram

gets them millions of pounds as with all DCA's.

 

if only people read the letters properly and stopped paying DCA's and their fake/tame solicitors

the whole industry would collapse tomorrow

 

and the courts would have the time and the staff to deal with real issues.

not be snowed under with 900'000 speculative claimforms a year

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The debt is from 1st quarter 2009 I recall. I had left Dubai by then. Thank you for your input and help. I will donate.

 

That email is not a proper letter before action.

 

I think you are probably best to not hide from this and deal with it, asking for full disclosure of all documents from the Dubai Bank. E.g copy of any financial agreement includimg full terms/conditions with translation document into English, copy of any default notice with translation into English, copies of statements of account, copy of any Dubai Court judgement with court translation into English.

 

Get them to supply everything and if they do so, then obtain further advice.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Some complicated reading regarding applying foreign limitations periods in the UK.

 

http://www.civillitigationbrief.com/2016/12/04/undue-hardship-and-the-foreign-limitation-periods-act/

 

I think taking you to court in the UK would be pretty complicated, given that it would be addressing the debt under UEA law and then there are arguments about limitations period.

 

If places like Dubai have lots of foreign workers taking out loans there, then they could arguably set a limitation period of 100 years. I think it is 20 years. But the point is that they could just sit on a debt for 10 years waiting for financial circumstances of the debtor to change. It would be pretty unfair and cause undue hardship, if they tried to apply a debt exceeding the UK limitations period, when the debtor had moved on, bought a house, got married etc etc.

We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

My solicitor had a reply stating foreign limitation period act and also the UAE civil code article 473.

 

They state the matter is not statute barred and wish instructions on repayment as their client seeks to resolve the matter amicably.

 

They have stated that I am indebted to their client and they have instructions to pursue for recovery of the same.

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As advised in my previous posts ask for all the documents i mentioned to be provided in English.

 

 

If they want to use English courts, then they need to supply documents in English.

And you are entitled to have these documents now.

 

They are just trying to get you to enter into payments, as the cheapest possible recovery option for them. There is no guarantee they would succeed in gaining a court judgement in England.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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  • 5 months later...

Update:

Nothing heard back from Stockslegal.

 

However another firm called IDRWW have been in contact and also sent a letter recently asking me to engage with them and resolve the problem.

 

They said they would like to do this whilst we are managing the account before our client moves the account into a legal collections process with solicitors CWD.

 

They then go on to say legal costs will be added to outstanding balance under the terms of the indemnity.

 

Further says a transfer to legal collections is also likely to result in less flexibility etc..

 

Please contact within 7 days.

 

FHere are some debt advice companies etc..yours sincerely.

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Ignore

Next desk nearer the bog same portacabin

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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load of ole twaddle!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Yes much of it is twaddle.

 

CWD do appear to take court actions,

but mostly easy targets that don't respond to them.

 

As soon as people start making requests for UAE debt information in English e.g Credit card agreement, terms and conditions, default notice, UAE court actions if relevant etd, they seem to go quiet.

 

If they do manage to provide all information in English and the debt is enforceable in the UK, they become uniterested in accepting small regular payments being made and give up..

 

This is going by reading these threads for a few years.

 

Advice is to wait to see if CWD do write and if they do send a letter as explained.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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