Government Brexit Skeleton Argument

[Guest]

I refer to TJ's post 44 which to me reads this whole outcome was orchestrated.

maybe it was..

take Bertis for eg. on the one hand he was all out for out, but, on the other he had been not long before interviewed saying how being in was good. he cant then lose (it seemed), whatever the outcome of the ref. ie chameleon; wear whichever political suit fits its (favourable) circumstances

[tobyjugg2]

I refer to TJ's post 44 which to me reads this whole outcome was orchestrated.

Depends what you mean by orchestrated,

Was the referendum for 'the people', or to quiet the Tory right?

... I have absolutely no doubts whatsoever that it was purely to quiet the Tory right and that if it had been JUST the public's will - it would NEVER have happened - just quietly ignored

 

 

Did Cameron think the populace would vote out

Almost certainly NOT

 

 

Was Cameron Planning on and working for an OUT vote?

I dont believe so, but neither was he working for an IN vote and risk upsetting that Tory right.

He was standing back hoping the polls were right and GAMBLING on an in vote that he could stand back from and not be 'besmirched' by.

 

 

Did Cameron give a damn about what the public wanted?

I dont believe that in the slightest

- even ignoring everything else, his 'EU renegotiation' proved to me beyond even the faintest shadow of a doubt that all he was worried about was the hard Right rich and powerful of the Tory party.

 

 

Does Farage believe in OUT?

- absolutely

 

 

Is Farage right?

Not by a looooong shot in my opinion, but he isnt entirely wrong either

- just a vast amount more wrong than right - and he is very right (wing).

Lets all understand that Farages' politics is the xenophobic politics of the fascist right. These are national front in posh frocks and theirs is the politics of hate and division.

 

 

Does Johnson Gove and IDS BELIEVE in OUT like Farage?

I dont believe so. I'm quite sure they are just political opportunists who would see Britain or anyone else burn to the ground if it progressed their own interests. and they saw OUT as progressing their interests - until they all reverted to type and started stabbing each other in the back instead of just Cameron and the country.

 

So all this 'Dont defy the will of the people stuff?

Is the Tory right now driving everything as the splits in all the parties leave them with 'relatively more power against all the other smaller divisions,

and nobody has the balls to drive the only real option against the rights will

and Corbyn doesn't want to even if he could - which would be a hard fight he doesnt even want to win. He wants OUT and he's getting it..

 

(Corbyn is almost certainly now a very black page in UK political history that simple doesn't realise the wipe is done and its long past time to flush the page away - but he's a megalomaniac fanatic)

[Guest]

until they all reverted to type and started stabbing each other in the back

yep.

this is how it wld've went re bertis

Interviewer - so, B the people have voted to stay in.

B - yes, the people have voted. we must respect our democracy, sovereignty etc. this is a great eg of the uk democratic process

Int- but, you advocated out. will you still then advocate out and even challenge the result given that its not binding.

B - no, as above. I have said before that being in the eu is better for the uk overall.

I- so why did you advocate out then.

B - Ernieage said to do so, and that i might become an out pm if so. otherwise, i wld have no chance of ever becoming pm.

[tobyjugg2]

yep.

this is how it wld've went re bertis

Interviewer - so, B the people have voted to stay in.

B - yes, the people have voted. we must respect our democracy, sovereignty etc. this is a great eg of the uk democratic process

Int- but, you advocated out. will you still then advocate out and even challenge the result given that its not binding.

B - no, as above. I have said before that being in the eu is better for the uk overall.

I- so why did you advocate out then.

B - Ernieage said to do so, and that i might become an out pm if so. otherwise, i wld have no chance of ever becoming pm.

 

 

Spot on,

I'll never forget the genuine look of abject fear on Boris' face when the out vote was announced, and he thought it was all going to drop in his lap. Commented on it here at the time I believe.

Bet he thinks of Gove as his savior.

[Guest]

and the version re out

 

Interviewer - so, Bertis the people have voted out.

B - yes, the people have voted. we must respect our democracy, sovereignty etc. this is a great eg of the uk democratic process

Int- but, you said just before advocating out that being in the eu is good for the uk overall

B - 'rubbish'. it is as above.

I- so why did you advocate out then.

B - Ernieage said to do so, and that i might become an out pm if so. otherwise, i wld have no chance of ever becoming pm.

I-well, you are now foreign sec..

[obiter dictum]

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

[tobyjugg2]

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

 

Lets give it the proper heading

Vote Leave director admits they won because they lied to the public

 

 

"Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective.

 

It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way."

 

 

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/SWNS_BREXIT_BUS_15.jpg

 

[Guest]

yep.

 

wonder if Bert and Ernie et al can be sued for misrep or breach of contract or..., in consideration of a vote! No doubt though they wld then argue it was a political 'invitation to treat'

[tobyjugg2]

yep.

 

wonder if Bert and Ernie et al can be sued for misrep or breach of contract or..., in consideration of a vote! No doubt though they wld then argue it was a political 'invitation to treat'

 

I'd prefer treason

But I'll settles for abuse of position of trust

[Guest]

But I'll settles for abuse of position of trust

yeah

1. A person is in breach of this section (s4 fraud act) if he:

a) occupies a position in which he is expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of another person

b) dishonestly abuses that position, and intends, by means of the abuse of that position:

 

• to make a gain for himself or another, or
  
• to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss
  

2. A person may be regarded as having abused his position even though his conduct consisted of an omission rather than an act.

 

dishonesty being a no contest.

 

[Guest]

the brexit White Paper

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/589191/The_United_Kingdoms_exit_from_and_partnership_with_the_EU_Web.pdf

 

some journo info

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-nationals-living-in-uk-after-brexit_uk_58932a28e4b008f369ceb1f5

[Guest]

forgot to link above this interesting (for the technical) side point (re another poss issue requiring parliament, although prob 'easily corrected'.)

'...It is highly likely that the government also needs parliamentary authority to trigger exit from Euratom...In addition to securing parliamentary approval for a Euratom exit, the government will need to be confident that, once triggered, the two-year Euratom exit timetable is sufficient to put in place replacement arrangements to avoid a damaging hiatus for the UK nuclear industry......'

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/V-Brexit-white-paper-confuses-Euratom-debate-08021702.html

[Guest]

'..a retired Scottish doctor claimed the law requires there to be a second referendum on any withdrawal agreement.... a former radiologist from Glasgow, sent a letter before action – usually the first step in taking disputes to court – to the Prime Minister, in which he argued Section 2 of the European Union Act 2011 requires a referendum before the UK can leave the EU...He said he has asked Ms May to respond formally to his letter by Friday 12 May.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-court-challenge-second-referendum-dr-andrew-watt-a7709136.html