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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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I have UK debts and want to apply for another visa


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I used to work for the UKBA and I can confirm that any debts you have in the UK, be they statute barred or not, would not affect your ability to be granted a visit visa.

 

Providing you can prove that the visit is genuine and affordable and that, on the balance of probabilties, you will comply with your visa and leave the UK on time then you will be issued a visa. If you are issued with a visa it will be in your passport and the UKBA database, it certainly wouldn't be passed onto any third parties.

 

The Entry Clearance Officer will want to see proof that you can afford the trip, wage slips, bank statements and the like, and that you will return to your country of residence, proof of employment is good for this, that's why they want your employers details as they sometimes check.

 

There is absolutly no chance of you being refused entry into the UK or detained because of any debts you may have, the system simply isn't in place to do it, the only caveat to that would be if the debts were fraudulenty obtained and criminal action was possible, but even that is unlikely unless there is a warrant for your arrest.

 

There is also no chance that an ECO would advise your employer of any debts, the UKBA wouldn't know unless you told them.

 

ello theoldgit :

 

 

I have come across one of your replies in regards to Visa Application UK

 

 

I was in UK under Tier 1 PSW permit until February 2014 , and had personal loans of GBP 2000 and un paid credit cards and phone contracts not more than 6000 GBP in total, I could not repay them since i left the country due to expired leave to remain .

 

 

and I have checked on the trustonline.org.uk - i do not have any CCJ against me

 

 

I am concerned this debt which I owe to the Creditors will hinder my new tier 2 (general) visa application

 

 

Kindly advise me, will this debt will come under General Grounds of refusal - under Deliberate Debting

 

 

your reply and advise will be really helpful and appreciated

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Hello ,

 

I am a new user and I need some help/advice in regards with Debt and Tier 2 Visa application

 

I was in UK under Tier 1 PSW permit until February 2014 , and had personal loans of GBP 2000 and un paid credit cards and phone contracts not more than 6000 GBP in total, I could not repay them since i left the country due to expired leave to remain .

 

 

and I have checked on the trustonline.org.uk - i do not have any CCJ against me till date

 

 

I am concerned this debt which I owe to the Creditors will hinder my new tier 2 (general) visa application

 

 

Kindly advise me, will this debt will come under General Grounds of refusal - under Deliberate Debting

 

 

your reply and advise will be really helpful

 

regards

 

Faz

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Hello I am new to Forums and I need advice in regards to below

 

I was in UK under Tier 1 PSW permit until February 2014 , and had personal loans of GBP 2000 and un paid credit cards and phone contracts not more than 6000 GBP in total, I could not repay them since i left the country due to expired leave to remain .

 

 

and I have checked on the trustonline.org.uk - i do not have any CCJ against me

 

 

I am concerned this debt which I owe to the Creditors will hinder my new tier 2 (general) visa application

 

 

Kindly advise me, will this debt will come under General Grounds of refusal - under Deliberate Debting

 

 

your reply and advise will be really helpful and appreciated

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This is taken from the Home Office general guidelines on deliberate debting. I would say that if you have no CCJ's on record and it remains just an issue between you and the Banks concerned, that it is not something that needs to be part of your application. But you would have to ensure that once you in the UK on a visa that you ensure that you conduct your finances properly and this includes negotiating debt repayment with the Banks concerned,

 

"This page tells you what to do if a person has deliberately got themselves into serious debt.

 

You must not refuse an application only because a person is in debt, especially if repayments have been made as agreed or if acceptable efforts are being made to pay off accumulated debts.

However, where a person deliberately and recklessly builds up debts and there is no evidence of a serious intention to pay them off, you must refuse under character, conduct and associations grounds.

 

Declaration of county court judgments In England and Wales a person may be handed a county court judgment (CCJ) for non payment of a debt. If the person is able to show that the money is not owed they can ask the court to cancel the judgment. Where the money is owed and it takes the person more than one month to repay the debt, the CCJ will remain on the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines for six years.

 

An applicant who has been handed a CCJ must declare it on their application form as long as the CCJ continues to appear on the register. If the CCJ remains on the register but the debt has been paid off in full, the applicant must provide details of when the debt was cleared, or alternatively if paying in instalments, provide details of those arrangements, including the total amount paid to date."

 

An applicant is not required to declare a CCJ that no longer appears on the Register of Judgments, Orders and Fines.

We could do with some help from you.

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Civil debts or ccjs are nothing to do with visa applications!!

They only need to know criminal stuff

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks for your reply,

 

the creditors in my case are not banks , but a private loan company , and credit card companies like vanquis, and vodafone contracts

 

i did pay the first installment , but had to leave the uk due to the end of grant of leave in uk,,

 

 

now that i got a job offer and want to return under a new visa category, my previous debt is got me skeptical in regards the general grounds of refusal

 

kindly advise

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thanks for your reply,

 

the creditors in my case are not banks , but a private loan company , and credit card companies like vanquis, and vodafone contracts

 

i did pay the first installment , but had to leave the uk due to the end of grant of leave in uk,,

 

 

now that i got a job offer and want to return under a new visa category, my previous debt is got me skeptical in regards the general grounds of refusal

 

kindly advise

 

If you read what they look at. It is only deliberate debt avoidance and outstanding CCJ's you are not paying.

 

I can't see these debts being a problem and if you had to leave the UK previously there is a reason you could not continue repayments.

We could do with some help from you.

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If you read what they look at. It is only deliberate debt avoidance and outstanding CCJ's you are not paying.

 

I can't see these debts being a problem and if you had to leave the UK previously there is a reason you could not continue repayments.

 

Thank you for the information, it sure is helping me to be a bit relaxed .. But will there be any credit checks made on me befor deciding for the grant of visa ? Will the home office do a background check to check debts or bad credit history ??

 

Secondly, I have not contacted or replied to the emails which I received from the creditors since I left the uk .. This has got me worried

 

And it's almost 2 years now since February 2014

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Would not have thought that they carried out credit record checks, but they probably check for court judgements.

 

With most debts, it is years before any action is taken. Companies prefer to use non performing debts to help reduce their taxes and they eventually sell the debts on. They will have tried to contact you at your last known address before giving up. They might not have issued a court claim, because there was no point paying court fees, if you could not be found.

We could do with some help from you.

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threads merged

 

 

already answered your other thread

and I refer you to post 6.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello :

 

I have got one more concern; if I move back to the UK again, how should i start dealing with the owed debt , since this would have been heaped up with lot of interest, I intent to pay the money which I surely owe, But not tons of piled interest,

 

How should I be managing this debt ? a step by step guide would be really helpful

 

Will the fact I was not in the Country due to Visa expiring, be considered ?

 

is there a way to actually know( who I owe and totally how much) ? (since I dont have any records)

 

Will they arrest me or disturb me at my new work place, chasing for this - i dont want my new employer to know anything about this ?

 

kindly advise ....

 

regards

Faz

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You simply wait until you are settled in the UK and then start to see what you can do to deal with these. Because when you apply for UK Bank accounts and other services you have to supply your addresses for the last 10 years, your UK credit record will be updated with your new address. You may then start to receive letters from companies that own these debts.

 

Or you check your own credit record and decide to contact the current owners of your debts. You ask for information about the debts and negotiate a settlement. If you find that that charges and additional interest have been added, you can often negotiate for these to be removed. If you had to leave the country due to visa reasons you can try to use that.

 

Debt is purely a civil matter. They can't contact you at work regarding a personal debt.

We could do with some help from you.

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Will they arrest me or disturb me at my new work place, chasing for this - i dont want my new employer to know anything about this ?

 

kindly advise ....

 

regards

Faz

 

 

as already explained it post 6

consumer debts are not criminal in the UK

you CANT be arrested for civil debts and they cant pester you at your work or through your work

 

 

it might pay you to get your credit file as soon a you can and see who now owns yours debts

 

 

but I would guess by now that your debts have been sold to debt buyers {DCA's]

they have

NO LEGAL POWERS WHATSOEVER

they ARE NOT BAILIFFS

 

 

i'd simply wait and see what deforestation you start to get if/when you settle here

then DO NOTHING

without coming on here and telling us what is going on

that has troubled you.

 

 

certainly DO NOT PAY A DCA OR TALK TO THEM.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Dear all :

 

Thanks for all the support and your valuable advise .. This has got me optimistic to return and more of peace to my mind , and things which were bothering me

 

I will surely keep updating here , and will not make any moves without seeking guidance .. Reading other threads and blogs here about how people got ripped off trying to pay back there never ending debts without guidance , sure has shook me a bit.

 

Once I return Is There any chance of my bank account being monitored of how much money I hold in it ? or my salary dates .. Cos I read somewhere that the debt collectors can withdraw money from the accounts ?

 

Kindly guide how to get hold of my credit file ..

Edited by Fazm
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Dear all :

 

Thanks for all the support and your valuable advise .. This has got me optimistic to return and more of peace to my mind , and things which were bothering me

 

I will surely keep updating here , and will not make any moves without seeking guidance .. Reading other threads and blogs here about how people got ripped off trying to pay back there never ending debts without guidance , sure has shook me a bit.

 

Once I return Is There any chance of my bank account being monitored of how much money I hold in it ? or my salary dates .. Cos I read somewhere that the debt collectors can withdraw money from the accounts ?

 

Only if you arranged a Bank account with the same Bank you had a debt with. But they are very unlikely to offer you an account.

 

Debt collectors can't withdraw money from Bank accounts. They either need your permission or a court order.

 

You are worrying far too much about this in terms of debt collection agencies. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of debts that exist. They can't chase them all.

 

Quite honestly, you are more likely to face problems with obtaining various services or renting a house or flat where they check your credit record in advance. You are quite likely to be asked to provide your previous UK address and agree to allow them to check your credit history. If these debts are showing as defaulted on your record, you might be rejected for services e.g contract telephone, Broadband, a flat/house tenancy.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Dear all :

 

 

Once I return Is There any chance of my bank account being monitored of how much money I hold in it ? or my salary dates .. Cos I read somewhere that the debt collectors can withdraw money from the accounts ?

Kindly guide how to get hold of my credit file ..

 

 

not in the uk they cant

so be careful upon what sites you read

always best to stick to CAG and ask any questions here

rather than the danger of garbage from elsewhere

 

 

noddle & clearscore are both free CRA file providers

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 7 months later...

Hello all :

 

I have been away from CAG for a long time now - since I have not returned back to the UK yet - But it will be happening soon (maybe a couple of months) hopefully

 

Meanwhile going through my emails : I have come across the below

 

From : Robinson Way Limited

 

subj:How much can you afford?

 

A repayment to match your circumstances

 

Dear XXXXXXXXX

 

Reference:

Due to:

HPH2 LTD (EX AQUA)

Balance Due: £470

Account Number:

 

 

 

Click here to pay

We want to understand your circumstances

 

Completing your financial statement will help us to understand what you may be able to afford each month.

 

You can do this by visitingwhere you can complete your financial statement (use My Account and Make An Offer options). If you would prefer to talk to one of our colleagues, please calls on 0345 605 1360.

 

We may even be able to agree a reduction in the balance you owe which can be paid over 1, 2 or 3 months. Please note that where this account is recorded on your credit file, once any agreed reduced amount has been paid this will be updated as partially settled with zero balance outstanding, and not as settled or satisfied.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Customer Contact Manager

Robinson Way

Part of Hoist Finance

A:Quays Reach, Carolina Way, Salford, M50 2ZY

W:

this debt is from 2014

 

Kindly advise : How should I be taking this ahead ( Ignore the emails till i am back to the UK ) or ?

 

I do not want any CCJ's to be raised ( since that is one thing which will surely hinder my work permit with the UKBA (home office) .

 

the last I checked on Trustonline on 1.04.2017 - I didn't have any CCJS on record

 

 

regards

faz

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Please read the information already provided in this thread.

 

They will have been checking your credit record for any ongoing activity in the UK and if you have been away, then there will not have been anything recent. So unlikely they would go for a CCJ and even if they did, a CCJ would not affect you returning to the UK. It is purely a civil matter between you and the owner of the debt.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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and that's a discount email...

so no doubt a lemon debt anyway

 

 

just remember a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 7 months later...

I hope you will be able to answer my query. I am currently a student on TIER 4 visa, i have received a CCJ but agreed to pay it by instalments. I need to extend my visa for a postgraduate course, will the CCJ affect my application ?

Thanks

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this thread is for fazm

please start a new thread

of your own

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi,

 

To re assure you

 

My wife had to go through the full immigration to the UK process several years back in order to gain indefinite leave to remain. I can assure you, the issue of our then joint (substantial) UK debt did not ever come up, even during the fairly tough interview we had to go through at Croydon !

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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