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    • Please can you avoid posting solid blocks of text. It is difficult for people to read especially when they are using a small screen such as a telephone. Well spaced and punctuated please. I hear what you say about the evidence – but do you have copies of it? And if so can we see it please. That's the point. We want to know what you have. As long as you have the evidence in your possession then you have some kind of control
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    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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break clause: how much is the last month rent if not full month


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Hi!

 

I have used the break clause in my tenancy contract to terminate it. It required a 2 month notice period, which I gave and was accepted by the landlord's agency.

This means that my tenancy agreement ends by the 25th of August. Nevertheless, my rental period usually runs from the 8th of each month. I have assumed that, if the tenancy contract ends by the 25th I would only have to pay from the 8th to the 25th but the letting agent is asking for a full month rent... He says the overpaid money will be returned and that they do this to protect them from tenants not leaving at the end of tenancy.

Is this legal? Do I have any obligation to pay over the end of contract period? Is there any protection for the overpaid money? What happens if I only pay for the period of 8 to 25 of August?

 

Any help would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks!

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Pay the full amount, and claim any excess back after.

Don't risk not paying a "sum due" and putting yourself in breach, which LA/LL could use to prevent you exercising the break clause, for the sake of 14 days rent which you will reclaim after!

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The estate agent is talking manure.

You have given the correct notice and they hold your deposit anyway (hopefully protected).

Just pay from the 8th till 25th.

The calculation is as follow:

Monthly rent x 12= X

X : 366 (days in this year) = Y (daily rent)

Y x 18 (odd days from 8th till 25th) = Z (this is what you should pay)

 

In other words if your monthly rental is £1000 this is how you work it out:

£1000x12=£12000

£12000:366= £32.79

£32.79x18=££590.20

 

If you're good with maths my apologies, but this might help others.

 

Bazza, I can't recollect any legislation regarding what you suggested.

Paying extra might lead to trouble getting the money back.

Paying the correct amount won't prejudice the return of the deposit if it's been protected

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When is rent due?

If in advance, is it a full month's in advance?

 

If so, what is the position on 9th August if a full months rent was due but unpaid?

 

Is there a provision in the lease regarding the break clause and having to "not be in breach" to exercise it?

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Dear BazzaS,

 

My rent has been full paid every month and in due time. I will pay the rent for August in due time as well, there is or will be nothing unpaid. The question is that my contract finishes on the 25th so I will not be using the property any more and there will be no legal bind between me and the property as the letting contract is finished by the 25th. Indeed the property is already let to someone else starting September.

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Dear King1234,

 

Tank you for your reply. The calculation of the amount from the 8th to the 25th has been most helpful as I was doing the calculation dividing only be the month...

I have been trying to go trough the Housing Act to understand how to proceed in this situation but could not find any specification regarding this. It seems to be a grey zone of the legislation.

As I have no experience in this matter I was wondering if there is anything stating that paying full month and getting refund of the overpaid rent is the common practice. Contacting the agent, she told me that there is no protection for the overpaid money... I assume it would be just a matter of mutual trust? This seems weird in business...

As you say, they have the deposit, so if we do not leave the property on the 25th they can claim money from there.

 

If you remember anything else that might be useful in this situation I would appreciate if you share it :)

Thank you!

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If you pay the correct pro rata amount there's nothing they can do.

And given that they already found new tenant they won't even bother you more than with a begging letter.

Don't worry about the deposit because the dps won't accept any nonsense from the LL or estate agent.

You paid what was due, end of the story!

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I disagree, a T cannot give valid NTQ during Fixed Term and this cannot end until after expiry of correctly served Break Clause activation Notice, then T can give 1 month NTQ, to expire at end of rel rental period.

Rent for period is due, in full, on due date specified in AST, any rebate is at discretion of LL, unless T is adhering to LL s21 expiry date.

Sounds like LA has accepted your break clause activation as NTQ, effective 7th Sept ie last day of FT.

If OP wants good LL ref/no CCJ pay rent for full period, otherwise they may lose .

 

 

Insuff info.

IMO We need to know

1 Orig AST & rent due dates and whether rent due pcm.

2 Duration of orig Fixed Term

3 Wording of actual Break Clause used.

to give better advice.

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Bazza, I can't recollect any legislation regarding what you suggested.

 

It isn't in statute or secondary legislation per se.

It is if the break clause in the lease has a provision requiring T to not be in breach to be able to use the break clause (so, it is a contractual issue rather than per a specific statute).

 

Whilst the LL having a new T "lined up" makes it unlikely LL will want to frustrate the use of the break clause, it is an issue to be aware of for LL's who might not have a new T and might want to find a way to prevent T from exercising a break clause (by identifying a breach of T's obligations if the lease then allows LL to use this to void the break).

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One thing that could be a problem after the tenant has paid for the full month is that they don't actually move until end of the month because they have paid.

Then the LL would potentially lose the new tenants because they can't move in on the day agreed.

That's why I think that paying the pro rata makes things square and fare for both parties.

The reason given by estate agent is rubbish (tenants don't move out).

They would be in the exact same position if tenants stop paying rent .

It's a standard risk in the rental market.

My 2 pennies that the estate agent would be very slow at returning this unprotected sum.

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