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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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old credit card debt with RBS transferred to WESCOT = WHAT TO DO??


HDEBT
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Hi HDebt

 

Is this to do with your RBS Thread? If so we can merge it.

Is it still with RBS? I can give you an email address if you need it for the boss @ RBS.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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threads merged

please action post 25

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi HDebt

 

Is this to do with your RBS Thread? If so we can merge it.

Is it still with RBS? I can give you an email address if you need it for the boss @ RBS.

 

Yes its to do with my rbs thread. Yes please to their address I would so be grateful

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Yes its to do with my rbs thread. Yes please to their address I would so be grateful

 

Thank you for your reply and for merging the thread.

I have my agreement and checked it all correct.

 

Could you please send me the address I need to write to the boss at RBS FOR OFFEREING a settlement for my credit card debt.

 

I have already posted them a letter over a month ago and heard nothing.

 

I am now concerned I have the wrong address or they are simply ignoring it!!Kind

 

RegardsH

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Apologies, I keep trying to post and it wont go thorugh.Someone please help - DOES anyone have the RBS address I should be writing to when offering a settlement. I sent my letter six weeks ago now and think it is for the wrong address.Someone offered an email address - Please if anyone can helpThanks H

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Just take a copy of your orig letter,

addressed to , into any RBS branch

and require them to put it in Bank's secure Internal mail system.

 

 

Make a note of time, date and person who accepts it, for future ref.

 

RBS have an extensive internet presence,

so tel HO switchboard and ask for info.

 

 

Many Organisations do not reveal email addresses of senior staff, but may connect you to rel Sec/PA.

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Howdi

 

Heres the Email Address for the boss of RBS.

 

 

Any issues or need any further help let me know.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Thank you for the email address. I am going to send an email today. I also received a letter from Westcots at the weekend to my old address telling me I hadnt paid the 1.00 per month since end of June.I dont pay them I have paid the 1.00 at the bank to RBS as always and totally ignored the fact Wetcloths exist.Is it normal for this type of letter?Thanks H

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Ignore wetcloths

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sent email

- Funny really as did not expect reply so fast,

within two hours I had a reply saying this will be looked into and I will be repsonded to within 10 days.

 

all I can do now is have hope and keep the faith, otherwise nothing will change for me.

I will keep you updated.

 

Dissappointed they didnt respond to my letter and it took me emailing the CEO to get anywhere.

 

I have limited access to the internet so got to have the hope they realise this is all i can offer and get in touch soon, waiting is awful.Thank you for help so far. I am ignorign Wetcloths.H

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Received reply from RBS

- They have informed me that my corrospondence has been passed to Westcot as they are responsible for the day to day management as account is with Westcot.

 

 

They said Westcot will contact me once reviewed my offer.

Is this normal?

I have continued to pay my 1.00 to RBS and ignored Westcot to date.

 

 

iS THIS WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS?

 

 

Kind RegardsHelen

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You have a right to deal with the Original Creditor as the debt has not been sold on in full.

Tell them you wish to raise a formal complaint about the matter, and they will then be forced to deal with you.

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

**Fko-Filee**

Receptaculum Ignis

 

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simply ignore wetcloths.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have received another email from RBS

- I had asked them if they have sold the debt to WESTCOTS.

 

They have replied to me with the following:

The debt remains with the bank but Westcot are now responsible for the day to day management which includes agreeing repaying plan and assessing settlement offers.

 

In view of this,

I have asked them to review the offer and contact you once a decision is made.

This is from the Executive Office RBS

 

i am confused, as they are telling me that it si up to Westcots and although I have gone to the top of RBS, they are insisting it is up to Westcots.

 

I have not contacted Westcots as RBS are doing that and I will hear from Westcots.

This must be the new way of doing things, passing the buck????

 

Dont understand why if debt is still with them that they go to the comapny they have managing it

- I now find myself confused and quite unsure of what happens now.

Thanks for help so far Helen

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Wetcloths are not debt BUYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so just ignore them,

stop silly letter tennis,

 

 

RBS are just being lazy )

No doubt thinking of sacking a lot of staff in the offices so the chairman can buy an expensive yacht as another CEO has and gets away with it)

 

 

cannot see why people waste time on Wetcloths and giving them monies for office parties at some peoples expense and leave people starving, Know what I would like to do with the people that runs these companies - enough said, pay RBS as you do now.

 

Do as I and 1000!s others do bin Westcot letters they give up after a few, and carry on regardless pay the owners only.

Edited by dx100uk
:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
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  • 8 months later...

Hi Helen

How did you get on with your F&F offer to RBS/Wescot?

 

I haven't heard anything from Wescot for a few months when they said it was time for my annual review (first one since they started managing the debt) but if I was happy to continue paying £1 per month, then no need to contact them.

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why are you paying wetcloths

they are powerless.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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