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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hello,

 

I would like to share my experience with you.

I would not like to share exact products and figures with you however, as is mentioned here RPL are watching this site and may use this against me.

 

I went to a TK Maxx store and actually bought and paid some clothes worth more that what we usually spend on TK maxx.

 

On my way out my eye caught another article without any boxing, price tag or anything at all for that matter.

 

I spent some time watching it and then moved on to watch something else while still holding the unmarked item.

 

After this my mind wondered off and I simply put the item in my pocket.

 

After a bit I left the store without ever having the intention of taking the item with me.

 

Upon leaving the store I was apprehended, taken to the back room etc.

 

As soon as I understood what was happening I felt extremely embarrassed and ashamed.

I tried to explain what had happened.

I had just forgotten the item in my pocket.

I actually showed them what I had bought and the receipts and they told me that they only care about for something I had not paid

 

. Then it hit me

. I felt like my world was collapsing as fast as it could.

 

I tried to say that this was a genuine mistake

. I could see they just wanted me to admit guilt so I just said that there was no excuse for it so I offered to pay for the damage I had caused

.I felt so ashamed that I just wanted to get it over with...

 

They told me that I was a thief and that this was no longer an option.

They threatened to call the police in if I didn't confess to what I did.

 

Feeling extremely humiliated and afraid for my job after getting the police involved

I just said that I did it

. I now realise that I was under immense psychological pressure at the time and I was not thinking clearly.

I should have asked for a lawyer straight away

 

. They told me that RPL would be in touch to collect a fine and they gave me the flier that is mentioned in most of the threads.

 

Under my distress I said that I don't mind paying the "Fine" there and then. They told me that this could not be done.

 

No police came after all.

I was made to sign the ban agreement and gave them my name and my address.

I was told that if I pay nothing more will happen

. They burned a disk as well and they brought it in front of me so I actually felt completely vulnerable

.I didn't even ask to see the footagje

 

. After settling down, having left the premises I read the last paragraph of the RPL flier.

It mentions that they may decide to prosecute me, or may contact the police, or may share my information with potential employers

. Surely this must be illegal.

I haven't been in trial and have not been convicted of this or anything for that matter

. I do not have a criminal record and I have never had anything to do with the police. Not even a parking ticket.

I am not in desperate need for money and they actually mentioned that in there.

I would not have any problem on spending a fraction more for the item they are claiming that I stole.

 

I was never given the chance to explain,

instead I was treated like a criminal and now I feel like I was manipulated into admitting guilt without ever having the chance to properly explain.

 

Every time I was trying to explain or say something different, one of them was walking towards the door in order to go call the police.

This put me under even more pressure and completely cluttered my judgement and my thinking. It was like an immense psychological blackmail. I just found my self saying whatever they wanted me to say

 

. I mean, if they were so sure I was a shoplifter who went in the shop with the INTENTION of stealing, why didn't they just call the police straight away? and instead tried to make me admit on stealing an item?

 

As mentioned above I had already paid for other items in the store that were worth considerably more that the unmarked and unpackaged item

.

In an attempt to gather my thoughts and settle down I asked for a glass of water but was denied it.

I should guess that this might be a basic human right even though I am not a litigator.

 

Again, since I felt completely intimidated and humiliated I just said that I felt awful for what had happened and that I would like to make it right anyway that I can. After that I was let go.

 

Before leaving I was assured that this is nothing more than a fine and that as long as I pay it everything would be fine.

They told me to think of it as a parking ticket.

I am expecting the letter now.

 

I do feel awful for what happened.

I am completely shuttered and in the verge of a breakdown

. I know that they were doing there job but I was never given the chance to even explain.

Still, I dint think that this is an excuse and taking the item out of the shop could have caused them damage

. Thats why I was more than happy to pay for the item as I mentioned to them.

RUnder no circumstances, my INTENTION was to steal anything.

I feel absolutely & completely embarrassed.

 

I know what I did was wrong even if it was a mistake and that I understand should pay more attention to my actions from now on.

 

I do feel very guilty and I would definitely like to take responsibility for my action which would seem completely shameful and my explanation may just come out as an excuse.

 

I understand that paying no attention this time lead to this.

Imagine if I was driving though? I could have injured somebody...

 

I am expecting the letter.

I am actually thinking I should pay as this would be a good punishment for myself and a good lesson.

I am not trying to figure a way out of this.

 

My question is

if I pay, will tkmaxx ever decide to take any action against me?

 

As soon as someone pays what happens to all the data they claim they keep on you?

 

I would hate it if something popped up ever in any check for something like this.

 

If I pay could they still decide to prosecute me?

 

I would like to make sure that they do not keep any of these especially since it is just allegations and not a proven fact. I did not have any intention of stealing....

 

I do understand that this might be sound like an excuse but I am more than ready to take responsibility for it

. I will definitely make sure that I will never put myself in this situation again.

 

I would appreciate a chance to explain though and not be treated like an

 

I haven't slept or eaten anything since this happened.

I fell like I want to just sit in my room and never come out of it again.

I feel so ashamed and so mistreated at the same time.

 

Now my concern are the letters.

I leave in a flat but the whole building shares a mailbox.

If the envelope mentions their firm, that would be extremely embarrassing.I do not even see how they are allowed to do this, especially when it concerns alleged and unproven allegations.

 

I have learned from what happened but I actually feel like a criminal now and this feeling is much worse than any fine.

 

I would hate to see my life ruined because of this.

 

Thanks for any help

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They never mentioned the word fine..so whxy are you using that word?

 

You did wrong end of

Ignore the letters

There's nothing they can do to harrm you

 

Go read the other rlp threads here

 

Now go get on with your life

And stop feeling sorry for yourself

 

It's over and done with

Just laugh at the scary letters

And read them properly..nowhere do they say will anything..if.could.might.instructed...

 

Totally. Powerless rlp are masters at it

 

Whatever you do

Do not ever pay them a penny

They are not anyone with any legal powers

And never ever can be

 

DX

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hello,

 

Thank you for your response.

They DID mention the word fine. They said I should consider it as a fine.

What does: You did wrong end of mean?

As I said, money is not a problem. Problem was the way I was treated.

I did not have any INTENTION of stealing anything and I immediately offered to pay for it. I think you are wrong doing when you are indeed steeling and in order to do that you need to remove property and have the INTENTION to remove property. How can the intention be proved in my case?

 

Thank you

 

They never mentioned the word fine..so whxy are you using that word?

 

You did wrong end of

Ignore the letters

There's nothing they can do to harrm you

 

Go read the other rlp threads here

 

Now go get on with your life

And stop feeling sorry for yourself

 

It's over and done with

Just laugh at the scary letters

And read them properly..nowhere do they say will anything..if.could.might.instructed...

 

Totally. Powerless rlp are masters at it

 

Whatever you do

Do not ever pay them a penny

They are not anyone with any legal powers

And never ever can be

 

DX

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Consider it a fine

Well its not a fine

So can't be considered as one whatever way you or they look at it.

 

It is not a fine

Only a court can fine. You

And they nor the police are or will ever be involved

 

You did wrong...that's the end of the matter

Forget about it

 

As for how they treated you all par for the way these people operate.

 

Drop it

Go live your life

DX

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Waste of time

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ignore them completely. Trust us. They cannot touch you. You'll get a few letters trying to threaten you, but then they'll give up.

 

The absolute worst thing you can do is send a letter. Look at the other rlp threads on this site and you'll see what I mean.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Take a few deep breaths to assist in relaxation. By the end of this post, I hope you will.

 

TKMaxx use Retail Loss Prevention to make a claim for compensation however, the amounts claimed by RLP bear no resemblance to the actual loss incurred by the store. They got the goods back so what loss can there be?

 

You will probably get a FAQ at some stage. I have seen this FAQ and it has been reproduced in this thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448994-RLP-FAQ-s.-What-do-they-mean&p=4762870&viewfull=1#post4762870

 

This shows (in my opinion) that RLP are attempting to mislead 'alleged' shoplifters.

 

There was no loss to the store. The security staff are doing what they are already paid for so there can be no loss there either.

 

The bad news is that on one occasion that I know of, RLP have franked the envelope with Retail Loss Prevention on it but just how many people have ever heard of them. For all they know, it could be a job application form.

 

Expect to get anywhere between 4 - 6 letters from RLP before they pass the liability (notice I don't say 'fine' ) to their pet debt collector of the day who can do nothing to you. Their letters will say 'undisputed liability'. Erm! if it was undisputed, why are they chasing?

 

Retail Loss Prevention can do nothing to you-ever. All they can do is spam you. Only the store can take action but to my knowledge, they haven't.

 

There was a fully defended court case in 2012 where a company (can't name them) lost-big time. It cost them thousands to bring the case and they left with nothing. Since that time, I have not heard of any cases where a retailer has taken anyone to court.

 

I do have the transcripts of the judgement if you want to see them.

 

Hopefully after reading this you will feel more relaxed.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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I used to work for TK Maxx loss prevention.

 

 

You should never of been pressured to change your story of events.

 

 

If you said it was a mistake, then LP should of taken that at face value, and called the police in, no ifs, no buts, and certainly no pressure.

 

 

We were always told that we aren't judge and jury, and its the police's decision to take further action.

 

 

This is simply the loss prevention being lazy, and not bothering to follow the clearly laid out process in the company policy of what to do.

 

 

Now a decision has been made by the store not to prosecute, then you have nothing to loose, I would let customer services know at head office 01923 473000. They should at least inform the district manager so an investigation can take place as to why they didn't follow process - if they had called the police, they would of seen it for what it is, and at least put your mind at rest, at the time.

 

 

Which store was this ?

 

 

Oh, and head office can stop the RLP letters and action (I would also like to add, ignore it)

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Good point Maxxer. As this seems to be a genuine error on the OPs part, a letter to the head office may have the desired result.

 

When you worked at TKMaxx, did you get an 'incentive' when you caught a shoplifter? I ask not as an accusation but because in recent times, I have read on the forum that security staff are getting more 'bullish' with their approaches as well as forced detention in the back office.

 

It's just a shame more people don't know their rights.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Good point Maxxer. As this seems to be a genuine error on the OPs part, a letter to the head office may have the desired result.

 

When you worked at TKMaxx, did you get an 'incentive' when you caught a shoplifter? I ask not as an accusation but because in recent times, I have read on the forum that security staff are getting more 'bullish' with their approaches as well as forced detention in the back office.

 

It's just a shame more people don't know their rights.

 

How is that relevant?! Shouldn't catching shoplifters be a good thing and the more the better?

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Bad choice of wording imo. I think he means suspected shoplifters as we've had many reports of innocent people being hounded and even vulnerable people

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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How is that relevant?! Shouldn't catching shoplifters be a good thing and the more the better?

 

That isn't what I meant. In the past we have seen where store security have acted reasonably (although not exactly as they should) however, in recent times, I have seen where the security staff have made claims that they could never do. You only have to look at other RLP threads to see what I mean which is why I queried whether security staff are acring more aggressively than before.

 

In regard to shoplifters, I agree that they should be more detentions for shoplifting. The RLP forum accepts that people have shoplifted and are feeling remorseful so we don't dwell on that. What we do dwell on is the unlawful demands and the false claims made by RLP who's only source of income is from spurious claims. I firmly believe that the best people to make a reasoned decision are the police who may issue restorative justice as opposed to a criminal record for first time offenders.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Absolutely, these RLP people are a terrible outfit and they shouldn't be allowed to write the threatening letters that they do.

 

I've not seen anyone post where they've been falsely stopped by security unless I've missed the threads.

 

The shoplifters are remorseful after they have been caught which is fine as everyone makes poor choices and they need help. Hopefully getting caught will be a wakeup call and deter them from breaking the law again.

 

The security staff should be encouraged to (correctly and lawfully) stop as many genuine shoplifters as they can.

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There has never been any incentives for stopping people (money wise) from tk's.

 

 

There are productivity targets, they always used to expect at least 1 arrest per week / 40hrs of work, but this was never a problem for my teams (London is a very active place for theft !)

 

 

No bonus, no bottle of wine, the closest we used to get was a pat on the back if it was a very high value arrest.

 

 

 

 

Since I have gone, there has been a push for 'better value' arrests - stopping the small stuff by challenging in the store, and concentrating on the bigger stuff.

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There has never been any incentives for stopping people (money wise) from tk's.

 

 

There are productivity targets, they always used to expect at least 1 arrest per week / 40hrs of work, but this was never a problem for my teams (London is a very active place for theft !)

 

 

No bonus, no bottle of wine, the closest we used to get was a pat on the back if it was a very high value arrest.

 

 

 

 

Since I have gone, there has been a push for 'better value' arrests - stopping the small stuff by challenging in the store, and concentrating on the bigger stuff.

 

Thanks for that, it explains things well.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Hello all,

 

Still waiting for the first letter. As I explaimed in my post above. Mine was a genuine mistake. Value of the item was less than £10. I had already paid closer to £100 in store. In this case I was plainly pressured into admitting I stole something with the threat of police humming over me the whole time.

Anyway, I am just saying that dometimes there might be a mistake from their part. My suspicion is that if they detain you they way they did with me and then admit to having made a mistake, this could mean that I could probably press charges for the humiliation faced and the psychological break down. It is only my assumption then that they pressure people into admitamce in order to claim that they did their kob the way it was supposed to be.

And as maxxer mentiomed policy line was to call the police every time there is an incident. In this case it never happened and I can only think it was because they thought they could not prove it to them. Sure, I took something that was not mine but the situation is clearly explained above and I am pretry sure that thats what they can see from the cameras as well. Can I ask to watch the footage as well? It can be clearly seen there that I never glanced around for shop security or cameras because it was mever my intention to steal anything.

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It takes a couple weeks for the first letter, then jackie and the muppet show will send more. The contents are complete rubbish as a lot of what she says makes absolutely no sense in reality or even in fiction. If you get one, either bin or or use it as toilet paper.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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And as maxxer mentiomed policy line was to call the police every time there is an incident

 

 

 

 

That's not what I said.

 

 

IF you deny the allegation, the policy is to call the police, as you are basically calling into question the loss prevention teams integrity, and as I have said, they are there to gather evidence, not decide guilt. That, is for the justice system to do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would complain if I was you. Head office will have access to the cctv footage, and as 99% of arrests in stores use the cameras to follow you, then all will be on camera. Also, in the holding room, every one has a microphone in it, and every word said will of been recorded, including, as you say, any pressure put on you.

 

 

They will of had to put on their paperwork the 'first alert signal' - the thing to which they originally started watching you for. as you said, if it was a mistake, then there wont be an alert signal. Things like looking at the cameras, removing price tickets or peeling off security tags etc.

 

 

Just be aware that if the person viewing the footage at head office, following a complaint, believes that there was a dishonest intent, and there were things you did to make them think you were acting dishonestly, then they may decide to involve the police at that stage, over ruling the store teams.

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Now that is interesting. Audio monitoring as well as video monitoring. I would make damned sure they send you a copy. If they refuse to supply one then you may have to do a SAR to get it. I would be very interested to see the footage (obviously not on an open page)

 

If the person viewing the footage decides to involve the police, all well and good in my opinion as then you will be able to put your story over without pressure as the police have very strict rules governing their behaviour in interviews. They would also be able to view the footage and make a decision based on that.

 

If the police did believe there was 'dishonest intent', they have protocols in place to deal with it without leaving you with a criminal record.

 

IF you deny the allegation, the policy is to call the police, as you are basically calling into question the loss prevention teams integrity, and as I have said, they are there to gather evidence, not decide guilt. That, is for the justice system to do.

 

 

Maxxer, I do not doubt your integrity at all however you can only speak for what you knew, not what you now know as you have been away from TKMax for a while. No doubt there are plenty of staff who are diligent in their duty but equally, we have seen plenty of times where security have not just stepped over the line but ignored the line completely.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Now that is interesting. Audio monitoring as well as video monitoring. I would make damned sure they send you a copy. If they refuse to supply one then you may have to do a SAR to get it. I would be very interested to see the footage (obviously not on an open page)

 

If the person viewing the footage decides to involve the police, all well and good in my opinion as then you will be able to put your story over without pressure as the police have very strict rules governing their behaviour in interviews. They would also be able to view the footage and make a decision based on that.

 

If the police did believe there was 'dishonest intent', they have protocols in place to deal with it without leaving you with a criminal record.

 

 

 

Maxxer, I do not doubt your integrity at all however you can only speak for what you knew, not what you now know as you have been away from TKMax for a while. No doubt there are plenty of staff who are diligent in their duty but equally, we have seen plenty of times where security have not just stepped over the line but ignored the line completely.

 

 

 

Nothing much ever changed in the years I was there, but don't forget, I do still keep my nose in to see whats going on, and some of my friends (who cant post here or they will get sacked), are current loss prevention managers, and district loss prevention managers within the stores, so the info will be current or nearly current that I post.

 

 

Audio is only ever at the tills and the holding room, nowhere else in the stores.

 

 

If the story here is 100% accurate, then I have no doubt the guys will no longer have jobs at the end of the OP's complaint. There is, and never was, any room for security to be pressuring people into admitting things. I have met many many different security in my years, and some are terrible. Some have no clue as to their responsibilities let alone their rights and the rights of others. Those deserve to not be in the industry.

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Ok, received the letter.

The amount requested is much less than what I have seen in the forum. It is £50.

Does anyone know why it is so little compared to everything else I have read in here?

 

Thank you

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Hmm! No idea. This is a first. Are you able to post up a copy of the letter in pdf format but ensuring you cover all identifying info (name, addy, post code and any bar codes and reference numbers)

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Jackies liekly wising up as we know she reads these forums, and could be sending letters with random amounts to try and say theyre justified costs. If she does it to a lot of people, she still gets money, while with her 147 or whatever for everyone its immediately suspicious

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Hello all,

 

As mentioned before the amount was not ss much as expected so I just decided to pay it and get dine with it.

 

In the FAQ they mention that tha personal data will not be disclosed to anyone else and will be confidentially destroyed.

 

After paying them I called them up and asked them to destroy my data as per their FAQ.

 

 

However, they told me that they retain them for 6 years. Is that legal?

 

 

Especially when they mention that they destroy them.

 

 

They also informed me that they do not disclose any of this information to anyone else unless I say so.

 

 

I responded that they do not have my pernission to disclose any information.

 

What I am asking is could my record be tarnished or this coming up in any employment search etc?

 

Thank you

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