Asda security staff bullying customers

[SabreSheep]

For what it is worth were you to attempt such an arrest, and especially if the victim was innocent, it could well be you finishing your shift early, and going home via a night in the cells.

 

You are NOT allowed to arrest on suspicion. a decent Lawyer would demand the CCTV, and if for example you are on it, not looking at the OP, only reacting to the bell going off, you would be stuffed.

 

Questions would be asked like, why did you not respond the moment you "saw" something get put in the bag, why you werent following the OP until the bell went off and so on.

 

And even if you could successfuly argue an honest mistake, should you have picked on an innocent party who then resisted your attempt at arrest and put you in hospital, you would have no comeback, legal or civil. We have the right to resist wrongful citizens arrest, because if no crime has been comitted, it is not an arrest but assault.

 

Said half decent lawyer upon viewing the CCTV as above, would also probably want charges such as making false allegations brought in.

 

 

A Prosecution requires 5 points.

 

1) Selection of the product

2) Act of concealment

3) 100% Surveillance

4) No attempt to pay

5) Passing past the last point of payment

 

For that reason the guards would have to wait for them to leave the store and not act as soon as they see them.

[goodatresearch]

Yes you right, I forgot about CCTV. This would show the security guard acting inappropriately and the op quite reasonably walking away. This would blow tony3x arguments out of the water.

 

 

 

 

For what it is worth were you to attempt such an arrest, and especially if the victim was innocent, it could well be you finishing your shift early, and going home via a night in the cells.

 

You are NOT allowed to arrest on suspicion. a decent Lawyer would demand the CCTV, and if for example you are on it, not looking at the OP, only reacting to the bell going off, you would be stuffed.

 

Questions would be asked like, why did you not respond the moment you "saw" something get put in the bag, why you werent following the OP until the bell went off and so on.

 

And even if you could successfuly argue an honest mistake, should you have picked on an innocent party who then resisted your attempt at arrest and put you in hospital, you would have no comeback, legal or civil. We have the right to resist wrongful citizens arrest, because if no crime has been comitted, it is not an arrest but assault.

 

Said half decent lawyer upon viewing the CCTV as above, would also probably want charges such as making false allegations brought in.

[SabreSheep]

Unless the 5 points are ticked, there is no grounds for detention. Although a Guard can *ask* assertively for a suspect to return to the store. They should still remember that until convicted the person is innocent and still deserves to be treated with respect.

 

And peeps

 

Lets keep this discussing the incident at hand.

Please refrain from personal attacks..

[tony3x]

I really don't believe that most of you live in the real world but hey ho nice to see that there are plenty of gullible people about.

 

Life is not perfect, would be boring if it was. All because the OP was offended by someone shouting, how very sad!

[goodatresearch]

What we have to remember is that op has done nothing wrong. She had every right to walk away when faced with a very rude and unprofessional security guard, regardless of what other people think about how she should have reacted.

 

I am aware of the problem with retail theft and how this can push prices up. However Security Staff have no more authority than a person in the street and it is in their own interest to act lawfully and professionally. Whilst people give rogue security guards more authority then they have and just give in to their demands like sheep, the industry will not raise its game.

[goodatresearch]

CAG is here to help people when things go wrong. Providing people with advice is not gullible or an indication that posters dont live in the real world just because they don't agree with you.

 

Most posters base their advice on their experience and knowledge and they should be respected for that. Just look at all the good CAG has done and all the sucessful outcomes of the advice given.

 

I really don't believe that most of you live in the real world but hey ho nice to see that there are plenty of gullible people about.

 

Life is not perfect, would be boring if it was. All because the OP was offended by someone shouting, how very sad!

[p3t3r]

I really don't believe that most of you live in the real world but hey ho nice to see that there are plenty of gullible people about.

 

Life is not perfect, would be boring if it was. All because the OP was offended by someone shouting, how very sad!

 

The real world is law. The OP is enforcing their rights under law. Certainly not gullible. Certainly not sad as you proclaim.

 

It is your own personal choice whether you accept being verbally or physically assaulted by a security guard, as it is the OPs choice not to. From your posts it seems that you would be content with someone verbally assaulting / shouting at you and you would also be happy to illegally detain someone for 'something'.

 

It is a matter of personal choice whether you accept such actions. Though for you to make a personal attack against someone based upon their choice to use law to enforce their rights against the security / store is wrong on so many levels.

[lonestardavid]

1 - it might

2 - who said you were to be searched

3 - Probably not and should be dealt with via a complaint as you are doing, although I would have done it at the time to stop any ambiguity

4 - Probably not , see above

5 - No, but you weren't being arrested

6 - stop being over sensitive

7 - see above

 

I hope that you don't know anyone that owns a shop that is targeted by thieves as I am sure they may not entirely agree with you.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that you could easily have gone back, showed your receipt (made a complaint about the guard if you so felt) and been on your way (possibly with a gift card as a way of compensation). But no, you decided that you were above that and started an unnecessary chain of letters/phone calls.

 

For what its worth if I were a security guard (thankfully I am not) and someone did not stop when the alarm went off I would follow them outside of the store and ask them to accompany me back. If they refused I would have no qualms about detaining them and calling the police because "I was sure that I see them put something in their bag".

 

By not acknowledging the alarm you places your self under suspicion.

 

simply by ignoring an alarm does not by itself cause suspicion and thankfully security staff cannot stop or abuse you simply because they may or may not have a suspicion, can you not see the contradiction in your stance,which seems to be, if you were a guard you would attempt to hold someone to account for as you see it breaking the law, and to facilitate this you would if i understand correctly break the law yourself which would at least make you as bad as any law breaker if not worse as you as a security guard should know better, thankfully laws are in place to protect us from abusive security guards and apparently YOU

[goodatresearch]

To go back to your original complaint, have you taken it over the head of the store manager, perhaps to head office and inviting them to look at CCTV so they can see how the security guard acted?

 

 

 

simply by ignoring an alarm does not by itself cause suspicion and thankfully security staff cannot stop or abuse you simply because they may or may not have a suspicion, can you not see the contradiction in your stance,which seems to be, if you were a guard you would attempt to hold someone to account for as you see it breaking the law, and to facilitate this you would if i understand correctly break the law yourself which would at least make you as bad as any law breaker if not worse as you as a security guard should know better, thankfully laws are in place to protect us from abusive security guards and apparently YOU

[lonestardavid]

To go back to your original complaint, have you taken it over the head of the store manager, perhaps to head office and inviting them to look at CCTV so they can see how the security guard acted?

I have complained to the chief execs office and recieved the usual bovine manure reply you know the usual sincere apology while attempting to justify the unjustifiable, what i will say is if the same thing happened tomorrow in the same way then i would respond in exactly the same way again.

[tony3x]

I have complained to the chief execs office and recieved the usual bovine manure reply you know the usual sincere apology while attempting to justify the unjustifiable, what i will say is if the same thing happened tomorrow in the same way then i would respond in exactly the same way again.

 

Hence my point, deal with it at the time, in person and get a better outcome.

[tony3x]

CAG is here to help people when things go wrong. Providing people with advice is not gullible or an indication that posters dont live in the real world just because they don't agree with you.

 

Most posters base their advice on their experience and knowledge and they should be respected for that. Just look at all the good CAG has done and all the sucessful outcomes of the advice given.

 

CAG is a valuable resource but that is not to say that everything written about rights. laws etc is always the right way to deal with something. If, as in my first post, the OP had not taken offence at being shouted at the whole episode would have been dealt with straight away.

[tony3x]

The real world is law. The OP is enforcing their rights under law. Certainly not gullible. Certainly not sad as you proclaim.

 

It is your own personal choice whether you accept being verbally or physically assaulted by a security guard, as it is the OPs choice not to. From your posts it seems that you would be content with someone verbally assaulting / shouting at you and you would also be happy to illegally detain someone for 'something'.

 

It is a matter of personal choice whether you accept such actions. Though for you to make a personal attack against someone based upon their choice to use law to enforce their rights against the security / store is wrong on so many levels.

 

Its not that I accept being verbally abused, it just doesn't bother me as its only words. If someone were to physically assault me I would deal with it in what ever way I felt was necessary whether it were to walk away or fight back.

 

One thing that comes out of all this is that the rights of the person are deemed more important than the right of the business not to try to prevent theft. I sincerely hope that any of you that have businesses that are retail based do not have to contend with theft of goods which could ultimately effect profits, staffing levels etc. I am not saying that the person does not have rights but a little common sense and this would have been sorted at the time.

[lonestardavid]

Hence my point, deal with it at the time, in person and get a better outcome.

 

evidently you need to re-read my post, one of my complaints was that the store managers statements was that "my security staff have the right to stop you inside or outside of the store" i also put in my letter about the managers total lack of knowledge on the law relating to limitations on the lawful actions of security staff to be so astounding as to be beyond belief, how can you complain to a person who is totally ignorant of the law, it would be like expecting you to accept the obvious, do you truly think i would have got a better outcome in the face of such ignorance

Edited June 24, 2015 by lonestardavid

[goodatresearch]

The law trumps what big businesses think they can and cannot do. It is actually common sense to take heed of the law and good customer relations.

 

Your just going round in circles and it isn't helpful. Your free to act as you like, if your happy to be shouted at so be it, you can't impose your own rules on other people. The op acted as she saw fit, that is not only her perogative but perfectly legal. End of.

 

 

Its not that I accept being verbally abused, it just doesn't bother me as its only words. If someone were to physically assault me I would deal with it in what ever way I felt was necessary whether it were to walk away or fight back.

 

One thing that comes out of all this is that the rights of the person are deemed more important than the right of the business not to try to prevent theft. I sincerely hope that any of you that have businesses that are retail based do not have to contend with theft of goods which could ultimately effect profits, staffing levels etc. I am not saying that the person does not have rights but a little common sense and this would have been sorted at the time.

[tony3x]

evidently you need to re-read my post, one of my complaints was that the store managers statements was that "my security staff have the right to stop you inside or outside of the store" i also put in my letter about the managers total lack of knowledge on the law relating to limitations on the lawful actions of security staff to be so astounding as to be beyond belief, how can you complain to a person who is totally ignorant of the law, it would be like expecting you to accept the obvious, do you truly think i would have got a better outcome in the face of such ignorance

 

Yes I do think that you would have had a better outcome as you would have been taken more seriously. There is also the fact that by not agreeing to the search, regardless of what any law says, you are placing yourself under suspicion. Try to see it from view of a store that probably has a lot of theft/attempted theft.

 

I sincerely hope that you get the outcome you want but as you will all have gathered I would have dealt with it differently and have been on my way home, probably with a nice gift card.

[SabreSheep]

Im beginning to think that the differences in opinion in this thread are now well and truly aired and neither side is going to budge from their standpoint.

 

I feel that to keep this thread useful we should progress along the lines of dealing with the OPs complaint.

 

As the OP has made a complaint to the CEOs office I do not see much more to do here.

[lonestardavid]

The law trumps what big businesses think they can and cannot do. It is actually common sense to take heed of the law and good customer relations.

 

Your just going round in circles and it isn't helpful. Your free to act as you like, if your happy to be shouted at so be it, you can't impose your own rules on other people. The op acted as she saw fit, that is not only her perogative but perfectly legal. End of.

 

extemely well put i could not agree more

[p3t3r]

the more people like 'lonestardavid' who are enforcing their rights are needed. otherwise these big businesses will just get worse (if thats possible)

[tony3x]

Im beginning to think that the differences in opinion in this thread are now well and truly aired and neither side is going to budge from their standpoint.

 

I feel that to keep this thread useful we should progress along the lines of dealing with the OPs complaint.

 

As the OP has made a complaint to the CEOs office I do not see much more to do here.

 

Fair enough

[goodatresearch]

Don't want to ignore the site teams last post, but I do have a funny story which might lighten things a bit.

 

My hubby and I had spent a day shopping in the city. On going through the train station barriers I had a sudden desperate urge to visit the ladies. Thrust my shopping bags at hubby a rushed toward the loo as quick as I could in high heels.

 

At the same time I noticed I was heading for the gents and stopped, hubby shouted "that's the gents". I was still stood still, my husband had joined me and was laughingly asking me why I was going to the gents, when a security guard stood between the gents and ladies, blew a whistle about 4 times and bellowed rather loudly into her Walky talky "major incident, major incident, all guards down to .............. as a matter of urgency". I immediately crouched on the floor thinking the station was in the middle of a terrorist attack.

 

The major incident, me nearly entering the gents.

[silverfox1961]

As the RLP forum is for those that have been accused of theft, this thread has been moved to the bear garden.

 

Making barbed comments of the RLP forum 'may' have the detrimental affect of putting vulnerable posters off from posting.

 

Also, this thread is in very great danger of being closed. The Bear garden allows some leeway with opinions but this still has to be used in a responsible way.

[goodatresearch]

I'm sorry if my funny but true story has been seen by the site team as a barbed comment (barbed comment meaning saying hurtful and rude things). As the op was receiving so much unfair criticism from certain posters I was just trying to lighten the mood.

 

I cannot see what else the op can do, shes received an apology albeit a rather reluctant one. I suppose it would be different if she was actually physically made to go back in the store, hen legal action could be contemplated.

 

One thought, are the security guards directly employed by Asda or contracted. There may be another avenue of complaint.

 

 

 

As the RLP forum is for those that have been accused of theft, this thread has been moved to the bear garden.

 

Making barbed comments of the RLP forum 'may' have the detrimental affect of putting vulnerable posters off from posting.

 

Also, this thread is in very great danger of being closed. The Bear garden allows some leeway with opinions but this still has to be used in a responsible way.

[silverfox1961]

I'm sorry if my funny but true story has been seen by the site team as a barbed comment (barbed comment meaning saying hurtful and rude things). As the op was receiving so much unfair criticism from certain posters I was just trying to lighten the mood.

 

I cannot see what else the op can do, shes received an apology albeit a rather reluctant one. I suppose it would be different if she was actually physically made to go back in the store, hen legal action could be contemplated.

 

One thought, are the security guards directly employed by Asda or contracted. There may be another avenue of complaint.

 

Check your rep!

[goodatresearch]

Thanks I never check my rep.