Link/IDR Claimform - old Barclaycard 'debt'

[SabreSheep]

well worth it when you get the sar.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309037-Charges-older-than-6-years-***WON***-Compound-Int-t-and-**NO-SET-OFF**/page4

 

Was thinking if there was a way to issue a counter claim as mentioned above in order to bring the claim below £10,000 and back into small claims, protecting you from costs.

[Duo]

Thanks BankFodder,

 

This is even simpler. I have a question though, you suggested using:

 

3. In the event that the claimant supplies a CCA and amended claim, the defendant will file an amended defence

 

Should that be "or amended claim"?

 

And yes, I am very glad that I came to you guys for help.

 

Or maybe even "and / or an amended claim"?

[SabreSheep]

Anyhow, my idea i admit is outside my expertise. Not done a counter claim before.

[AndyOrch]

well worth it when you get the sar.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?309037-Charges-older-than-6-years-***WON***-Compound-Int-t-and-**NO-SET-OFF**/page4

 

Was thinking if there was a way to issue a counter claim as mentioned above in order to bring the claim below £10,000 and back into small claims, protecting you from costs.

 

To submit a counter claim will add to the value not reduce it SS

 

Andy

[Duo]

SabreSheep, once I have the information, I will come back here to see what, if anything can be done.

[Duo]

I amended the wording slightly in the first version below, so the question is which to file,

 

This:

 

1. The claim is denied.

2. Furthermore the Claimant has failed to comply with a statutory request to supply a copy of the CCA so that any alleged claim is unenforceable in any event.

3. In the event that the Claimant supplies a CCA or an amended claim or both, the Defendant will file an amended defence.

 

Or this:

 

1. The claim is denied.

2. Furthermore the Claimant has failed to comply with a statutory request to supply a copy of the CCA so that any alleged claim is unenforceable in any event.

3. In the event that the Claimant supplies a CCA and amended claim, the defendant will file an amended defence.

 

Point (3) on the second version seems to require that both the CCA request be fulfilled and an amendment to the claim be made before I can file an amended defence.

[Duo]

 

They are not entitled to put the CCA on hold - and to use it as a bargaining chip is unlawful. Do you have this in writing?

 

I think that you should be sending off SARs to BC and to IDR immediately.

 

Hi BankFodder, is there somewhere where I can read up on this? I don't have this in writing but as call recording.

 

I will send the SARs. Is it also worth sending a CCA to Barclaycard? As I understand it the SAR will include it if they have it, however, they have to respond to a CCA request in 14 days whereas they can take much longer respond to a SAR.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Duo

[AndyOrch]

Just submit the following Due ...you have about 6 mins remaining....forget DSARs and mitigating at this stage.

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. Paragraph 1 is accepted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Barclaycard however I am not aware of the account number in question and therefore requested clarity by way of a section 78 request. This request was served on the Claimant on --/02/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall the exact date or nature of any breach.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or Barclaycard. Therefore I have sought clarity by way of a CPR 31.14 request. This CPR 31.14 request was served on the Claimant on --/03/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

4. It is therefore at this time denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and the Claimant is therefore put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show evidence of any breach and service of a Default Notice and subsequent Notices of sums in arrears

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Duo]

Just submit the following Due ...you have about 6 mins remaining....forget DSARs and mitigating at this stage.

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. Paragraph 1 is accepted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Barclaycard however I am not aware of the account number in question and therefore requested clarity by way of a section 78 request. This request was served on the Claimant on --/02/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall the exact date or nature of any breach.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or Barclaycard. Therefore I have sought clarity by way of a CPR 31.14 request. This CPR 31.14 request was served on the Claimant on --/03/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

4. It is therefore at this time denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and the Claimant is therefore put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show evidence of any breach and service of a Default Notice and subsequent Notices of sums in arrears

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Arrgh! I just submitted the defence that BankFodder gave me. Can I amend it?

[AndyOrch]

Have a go...may be too late now

[BankFodder]

Whoops - mine will do but Andyorch's looks much nicer

[Duo]

Okay then so they say that if I want to add additional points I can do so by email but if I want to change it completely I have to make an application to amend my defence and file it on a form N244, which would have to be processed by a District Judge.

 

The defence I submitted is:

 

1. The claim is denied.

 

2. Furthermore the Claimant has failed to comply with a statutory request to supply a copy of the CCA so that any alleged claim is unenforceable in any event.

 

3. In the event that the Claimant supplies a CCA or an amended claim or both, the Defendant will file an amended defence.

 

Suggestions?

[BankFodder]

If they allow it, add Andyorch's paras. 4, 5, 6 - especially 4

[Duo]

Okay. I will make some changes and come back to you. I need to go out for a little while first.

[Duo]

I think it may be possible to include all of andyorch's defence points with the right paragraph joining the two.

 

I would like to get as much of it in including the dates at which statutory requests were made so could you please look at this carefully, especially the paragraph starting "In addition the Defendant contends..."?

 

Should also I add the particulars of claim with the paragraphs numbered as a reference?

 

Is my chosen numbering scheme correct?

 

 

Already submitted:

 

1. The claim is denied.

 

2. Furthermore the Claimant has failed to comply with a statutory request to supply a copy of the CCA so that any alleged claim is unenforceable in any event.

 

3. In the event that the Claimant supplies a CCA or an amended claim or both, the Defendant will file an amended defence.

 

 

In addition, the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. However, the Defendant accordingly sets out its response (should that be his response?) to the allegations in the particulars of claim below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

4. Paragraph 1 is accepted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Barclaycard however I am not aware of the account number in question and therefore requested clarity by way of a section 78 request. This request was served on the Claimant on --/02/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

5. Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall the exact date or nature of any breach.

 

6. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or Barclaycard. Therefore I have sought clarity by way of a CPR 31.14 request. This CPR 31.14 request was served on the Claimant on --/03/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

7. It is therefore at this time denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and the Claimant is therefore put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show evidence of any breach and service of a Default Notice and subsequent Notices of sums in arrears

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

9. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

10. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[AndyOrch]

Responding to your PM Duo

 

To try to amalgamate......

 

 

 

My point 7 covers your point 1 so point 1 is not needed

 

My point 4 covers your point 2 so point 2 is not needed

 

Your point 3 should never have been included at all.. you never offer to amend a defence...its irrelevant and the court would not expect/order you to amend your defence...should they comply with a section 78 request...you would then verify that it was valid...if it was..... your initial defence is dead in the water because it only pleads that one point...if its not valid you would expand by way of your witness statement later.

 

Thats why the second defence was more applicable because it covers a multitude of hurdles that the claimant has to overcome and prove.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Duo]

Thanks for the quick reply andyorch, unfortunately I can only add to my existing defence ( points 1, 2 and 3) by email.

 

If I want to amend the defence and say, replace it with yours I would have to submit a form N244 and it would go to a judge who would decide.

 

So, is there a way to fix this defence via email or would you suggest submitting a form N244 or would you suggest doing both - adding to the the defence by email and then submitting a form N244 to amend it?

 

This situation seems very bad now.

[AndyOrch]

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. However, the Defendant accordingly sets out its response (should that be his response?) to the allegations in the particulars of claim below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. Paragraph 1 is accepted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Barclaycard however I am not aware of the account number in question and therefore requested clarity by way of a section 78 request. This request was served on the Claimant on --/02/2015. and has failed to comply with a statutory request to supply a copy of the CCA so that any alleged claim is unenforceable in any event.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall the exact date or nature of any breach.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or Barclaycard. Therefore I have sought clarity by way of a CPR 31.14 request. This CPR 31.14 request was served on the Claimant on --/03/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

4. It is therefore at this time denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and the Claimant is therefore put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show evidence of any breach and service of a Default Notice and subsequent Notices of sums in arrears

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

Best I can do to make it flow and make sense

 

Andy

[Duo]

Thank you. So the defence they will end up with on file will be:

 

1. The claim is denied.

 

2. Furthermore the Claimant has failed to comply with a statutory request to supply a copy of the CCA so that any alleged claim is unenforceable in any event.

 

3. In the event that the Claimant supplies a CCA or an amended claim or both, the Defendant will file an amended defence.

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. However, the Defendant accordingly sets out its response (should that be his response?) to the allegations in the particulars of claim below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. Paragraph 1 is accepted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Barclaycard however I am not aware of the account number in question and therefore requested clarity by way of a section 78 request. This request was served on the Claimant on --/02/2015. and has failed to comply with a statutory request to supply a copy of the CCA so that any alleged claim is unenforceable in any event.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is denied. I do not recall the exact date or nature of any breach.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied. I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or Barclaycard. Therefore I have sought clarity by way of a CPR 31.14 request. This CPR 31.14 request was served on the Claimant on --/03/2015. The Claimant has yet to comply.

 

4. It is therefore at this time denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, and the Claimant is therefore put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show evidence of any breach and service of a Default Notice and subsequent Notices of sums in arrears

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

5. As per Civil Procedureicon Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

6. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer crediticon Act 1974.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

Do I need to add the particulars of claim for reference with the paragraph numbers? Do you think it is worth sending this in and then filing a form N244 for an amended defence?

[AndyOrch]

No thats incorrect...I have already posted the final version in #43...no you dont submit the particulars...the court should be able to work out what your points are referring to...that's why you must use my last post not yours...it does not correspond or flow.

[Duo]

Thanks andyorch. I wasn't going to submit my last post but your last post #43. However my last post #44 will what the court ends up with on file.

 

If that is the case, do you think that will be sufficient?

[AndyOrch]

It wont...your final email will be the accepted defence...just submit it.

[Duo]

Okay, writing the email now. I was told to use this format:

 

Subject: Additional Information For Defence

 

Please see additional information for the defence filed . Please can this be placed onto the court file.

 

[Duo]

Submitted it then called them and they said that it would be placed onto the court file but that if I want to remove or change the original defence then I would have to use a form N244 (I already have the £50 fee on file since I was going to get a filing extension).

 

So what you are saying, andyorch, is that I will effectively have two defences on file and this new one will now be the accepted defence so I don't have to take any further action. Correct?

 

Sorry, I'm truly new at this.

[AndyOrch]

I wouldn't make application....the DJ will view both as your defence....and in reality there is nothing new...just further additions.