Left job, not paid.

[Thelostone1]

Hi there,

 

I am after some advice as im real confused, please bear with me while i give you some background story.

 

a couple months back (jan) i handed in my notice after finding a new job, we had received a bonus for Christmas which stated it was also for the hard work we had done for 2014.

 

Anyway, after saying they may want the bonus back, i carried on with my day to day duties. No more was said about paying it back.

 

Pay day comes round and everyone gets paid except me. (i have 2 weeks of my notice period left at this point) Being first thing in the morning of pay day i confront the person in charge and they replied that they do indeed want the bonus back and we sit down and sort out how they get it back.

 

I am given a few options like working the next 2 weeks of my notice for free, and ill get my wages owed upto the point of payday. Or if i work 1 week ill get 900 and something. etc..

 

They said i could pay back 100pound a month back for 10months, i offered 50 for 20 but that wasn’t good enough.

 

The bonus was 1500, but they said they wanted 1000 back as i would have paid tax etc.. and 1000 was a round enough figure.

 

Anyway i ended up walking out as i was basically financially held to ransom.

 

I don’t feel like i should had to pay the bonus back as the letter stated it was for 2014 and it isn’t to influence nor an incentive for 2015 and future years with the company, but said i would pay back 50 over 20 months just to get my wages.

 

I am a bit confused as with the contract side i never got one when i joined and about a year later they were issued to everyone (it is only a small company) and it doesn’t say anything about repayment of monies owed. It is very basic. It also said at the end of the contract that they wanted them back within 7 days signed, or they would take it that we verbally agree to the terms. (another matter – I have been told that verbally agreeing it more law abiding that signing to agree, so unsure if I really had a contract or not)

I am owed around 3 weeks wages which I roughly work out just over 1000pound.

I did ring Acas but the lady was very unhelpful at the time and got me of the phone with in 15secs.

 

Where do I stand with this?

 

Is it worthwhile pursing with this, i have been told by my new jobs HR dept, that i would have a case.

 

Many thanks for reading.

[becky2585]

I'm inclined to suspect that the company acknowledged that the bonus was due and owing as they paid it to you - they can't really claim retrospectively otherwise if it was legitimately earned during the course of 2014.

 

Further, without a contract, the company's actions in withholding wages is an unlawful deduction (whether or not any bonus was owing).

 

I think it's worth pursuing.

[p3t3r]

Ditto to what Becky has said above!

 

Plus my thoughts, as you are leaving the company, then the company really don't care about you anymore and are trying to get some money from you.

I have no idea of payroll or accounts, but would suggest that as they have paid you £1,500.00 and only want £1,000.00 returned, there is some also added benefit to them in relation to tax?

Possibly hidden accounts (from your £1,000.00).

 

Your new employers HR dept has already said you have a case. Go for it! What have you got to lose? (apart from 1k if you decide to repay it)

[ericsbrother]

you were paid a bonus (tax and NI deducted so not a gratuity) for a period of time that has passed and unles it specifically says in your employment contrcat that this bonus is conditional in being in employment for a given amount of time after its award there is no legal reason for them to demand anything. Even if it is in the contract it is most likely a condition that has been found to be unlawful by an ET some 4 years ago so doesnt mean a bean anyway.

Dont feel as though you have to pay anything and if you didnt have a contract it cannot be considered a normal term of employment for an implied contract. You may well have a case to recover anything you have handed over/ been paid short for and I bet the employer will not want to go down the legal route as they may well have a lot of things they dont want uncovered.

Tell your employer you expect to be paid for the work you do, as required by law and invite them to sue you if they think that they have a leg to stand on regarding the bonus.

[Thelostone1]

hi all.

 

Thanks for the replies thus far.

 

I did shortly hear through the grapevine after I left that he said to someone they didn't have a leg to stand on but was playing hard to get.

 

I was prepared at the time to forget about it as i couldnt be bothered to fight it if it came to that. It has now started to effect me money wise and I don't see it fair that technically I worked 3 weeks for nothing.

 

I was told in this discussion I had they felt cheated as I had just had two weeks of for Xmas which was included in December's wages, and technically I could owe more but is willing to call quits there and then.

 

knowing how they work (quite aggresive/threatening business people) is probably the reason I have yet to do anything about it. But as I am running out of time I need too.

 

Thanks for reading and replies thus far.

 

[SabreSheep]

You have 2 route open to you to get back any money outstanding.

 

Unlawful deduction of wages can be taken to an employment tribunal. BUT the down payment is higher.

 

Anything under £10k can go through small claims court.

[ericsbrother]

they cant treaten you with anything now you no longer work for them. Either grasp the nettle or pay them back the money that YOU have earned and stop complaining that you have been hard done by. You have to help yourself if you want something, we can advise you on how to go about things but we cant make your decisions for you.

[Thelostone1]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the input so far.

 

I have decided i am going to go SCC route as i cannot afford the up front payment of the Triburnal.

 

I am first writing a letter to ask for payment not recieved.

 

Is there anything i should defo put in.

 

I have wrote this so far.

 

As you know, on the xxxxxxx 2015 I took the decision to leave the company 2 weeks earlier than my notice period due to the fact you were not going to pay me that month’s wages due to “claiming back” a bonus paid to me in 2014.

 

Due to the letter dated xxxxx December (See attached). It stipulates it is not to set a precedent for 2015 or future years.

As the contract you supplied does not mention any overpaid or bonus monies to be repaid upon leaving the business, and after seeking legal advice, I am writing to you to pay Three weeks wages

I make this to the total of £xxx post tax. (£xxx pre tax).

Failure to respond to this letter within fourteen days of the date above, will leave me no option to take further legal action.

 

Is this the sort of points i need to make in the letter. ?

 

I just wanted to check before i send as i havent had to do anything like this before.

 

Thank you.

[obiter dictum]

Just a point to note, the District Judge at the county court will want to know why you did not go to an Employment Tribunal first.They are all covered under HM Courts and Tribunal service. You cannot really use fees as an excuse because if you are unemployed or on low income fee exemptions are in place. The issue with any pay of bonus payments should be resolved first with the company Grievance procedure

[Thelostone1]

Hi Capquest, thanks for pointing that out, i wasnet aware.

 

The reason i havent is because the 3 months is due to expire around the 26th so i believe i am too late for that.The reason is i cannot afford the fees they ask. Im not on low income but my wages covers my bills etc. The savings i had went on paying the bills in the month i wasent paid.

 

Will this go against me if i jump straight into the County Court option?

[SabreSheep]

I would think that a simple county court small claims case for unpaid monies due under contract of employment would involve far less in the terms of court resources and expenditure to all parties involved.

 

An excellent reason to suggest to the judge why it would be issued in a small claims over that of an employment tribunal