Phones 4 U (mobile phone insurance)

[TETSUO]

I just realised that I have been paying a third party company £7.99 a month for phone insurance on a contract that ended with Phones 4 U about 3 or 4 years ago. It was showing on my statements as 'Policy Admin Serv'. I stupidly assumed it was a valid charge from my bank for something, but it turns out to be nothing like that.

 

I am going to send them a CCA letter (i think?), but wandered if anyone else had experienced anything similar? I want my £300+ back !

 

Any advise or similar experiences would be greatly appreciated!

[Darren]

Hi Thomper

 

I had the same a few years ago with phone insurance. It took a while to get it sorted out, I wish I had this site back then. Sorry I cant give much info but it was a long time ago.

 

A cca request will probably be a good start and I'm sure you'll let us know how you get on.

[buzby]

No - phone insurance isn't a CCA issue. As P4u sell insurance through their own associated company, it would be reasonable to assume that when you changed phones (I'm assuming here the phone that isn't still connected?) then the cover should cease. IF, however you are still using this phone, then it will be difficult to negotiate a refund because the policy is still in force and you could have claimed against it. As you've discovered, it is often better to put the money away in a fund in case you DO need to repair/replace, rather than fund P4u with more of your money. Because you willingly entered into the agreement, and didn't cancel it directly it would be difficult, if not impossible to demand reimbursement.

[TETSUO]

the Contract was terminated a long time ago (2.5 years) and the phone was sold on (without sim). My assumption was that any insurance policy taken would be terminated along with the agreement, but I have been told by Policy Administration Services that the insurance was under a seperate agreement that had to be cancelled seperately. Because of this I assume that there is a seperate CCA... my only hope is that they are unable to provide evidence of my agreement with them and I can claim it back. Failing that I will write a letter of complaint an accept any goodwill offer they want to make.

[buzby]

As you found out, the contract was seperate (and still nothing under CCA as no 'credit' was involved). You might have a reasonable case if you took out a new phone contract with P4u and they forgot to cancel it, however if you just terminated the phone contract and arranged a replacement through them, all you can do it ask very nicely and hope they'll agree to refunding some of the premiums, so rather than complaining (per se) you're actually asking for their help - a subtle difference, but one that has been known to work wonders!

[TETSUO]

They should still be able to prove, credit agreement or not, that I had agreed to their T&C's and signed a seperate document with them for the phone insurance. It is this that I am going to ask for. I assume that if they are unable to provide evidence that I had signed an agreement, the I should be able to claim it all back.

 

I certainly won't go in guns blazing and will try the polite approach initially, however, if this fails then I will shout as loud as I can as this can also work wonders

[buzby]

Whilst I wish you luck - an Insurance company is not known for its clairvoyance. When all is said and done, if you take out a policy and subsequently do not need it, then that's hardly their fault. Additionally, if the policyholder wishes to exercise the right to pay by DDM or CC continuous mandate, then the responsibility to check whether the amounts paid are correct fall on him. A policy that is ongoing will stay that way until the policyholder decides to end the arrangement. If the phone contract ended, then that took some action on your part to achieve, so overlooking doing the same thing for the insurance policy was not P4u's fault.

 

They may on reflection make an ex-gratia contribution, but T&Cs will expect you to give notice of termination (it's also common sense!). Any lack of providing them will not make them any more liable to you than they are at the moment.

[TETSUO]

I appreicate all you are saying and I am not suggesting that my own stupidity is not to blame, however, it was not made clear to me at the time that I was signing a seperate agreement with a third party compnay outside of Phones 4 u and that this would require a seperate termination. Yes, I should have read my T&C's and all the small print. If they can provide me with a signed agreement, then I will admit defeat. I can also not recall ever signing two direct debit agreements, which surely I would have had to have done.

 

I know that they get a lot of complaints about this, so as a company, they should be making their policies more transparent rather than continuing to not make things clear, knowing that they legally have the upper hand, even if morally they don't.

 

I spoke to their call centre at about 11:30am and I was the fourth person that the agent had spoken to that day with a similar problem/complaint. This indicates, to me at least, that someone somehwere is knowingly making money out of the ignorance of others and is quite happy to carry on doing so. How many 'insurance' companies do you know that make no contact whatsoever with their clients over a 42 month period? Legal? YES ! Moral - hmm, questionable!

 

Yes, you are quite right in suggesting that it is my fault, but I also believe that PAS Ltd, are also fully aware of what they are doing.

 

We shall see what happens

[buzby]

They may have changed their procedures over the years, but from memory the way it worked was seamlessly integrated into the sale documentation/contract. Just a box tick (as it was a P4u company that provided the insurance). Just as automatic as the enquiry when purchasing a £4.99 electric toothbrush from Curry's; "Do you want to extend the Warranty to 5 years... it's only £19.95...?" Which is asked in all seriousness!

[TETSUO]

well, I'll have a crack at it and see what happens... I'd be interested to see what I signed.

 

Will keep this thread updated with my progress or lack of, depending what it be

[Darren]

Hi Thomper

 

If they aren't covered by cca why not ask for a copy of the contract and signed DD mandate under the Data Protection Act.

 

Insurance companys do cave in, take a look at my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20608

 

I have a problem with another insurance company now so I'm just going to start a new thread.

 

good luck

[TETSUO]

Cheers Darren,

 

I go and have a gander!

[TETSUO]

I sent them a letter today asking for a copy of the signed agreement and DD mandate. I didn't enclsoe £1 as I didn't have my chequebook on me, but am in no hurry on this one. I'll see what happends and if I get any respnse from them.

[buzby]

You might be lucky and they'll process it anyway - keep us posted!

[TETSUO]

If I have to I will re-do it abnd send them £1....

 

Not too bothered about this as it is only a side project.

 

I'll be busy doing it properly with the lovely banks :grin:

[TETSUO]

Got a phone call from thew lovely people at Policy Admin Service. They pretty much proved over the phone (passwords etc) that I had taken out the agreement, but agreed to pay be £155.81 back as a goodwill gesture! I was more than happy with that as I thought it very reasonable of them!

 

yayy!!! :grin:

[buzby]

And you won;t get caught that way again, will you?

[TETSUO]

hehe :grin:

 

I don't usually get caught out, but will certainly pay more attention in future!

 

They were actually very nice on the phone, so I was happy with their offer which equates to more than half of what I paid over the life of the agreement and I was actually covered for 12 months of it whilst I had the phone.

 

So, 155 quid up for Christmas ! result!

 

I had my 'statements' back from MBNA today (a list of charges), so I can get my teeth sunk into that later. I won't be accepting any less that 100% from these guy though, no matter how NICE they are! woo hoo !!

[Darren]

well done Thomper

[roadcyclist]

hi, I just found this after doing a search on 'policy admin serv'. I also assumed that it was a standard bank charge. I have also not had the phone for about 2 years.

I have cancelled it and am wanting to send a letter to them to claim back the money, I was wondering what a CCA letter is and if there is a template for one?

[buzby]

There are a number of problems here - firstly, CCA is not relevant in this case, as it is not a credit agreement. Secondly, the insurance policy covers the physical phone, and has no relationship with the airtime contract so if you cancel one, the other does not end unless you specifically request it. It will be difficult to claim back, as they are still providing the service by covering the mobile, as the insurer does not know it is not being used.

 

You can certainly send a letter asking (not demanding) a refund, and they may be prepared to make a goodwill gesture. You could in support of this say the 'Policy Admin Serve' was too cryptic a description to allow you to identify who was taking the money, but this is the risk you take with DD's.

[MR ROB]

I had the same thing happen to me ages ago... they made me an offer but not for the full amount. I took it but it was along time ago and before i'd found the consumer power from places like this

[buzby]

I really doubt ANYONE would be given the 'full amount' because you are arguing at a disadvantage - it is the consumer's 'fault' for not cancelling the policy timeously. Since the policy is still in force, if the phone did become lost or stolen, a replacement could be obtained under it, so it isn't as if you're paying out for no benefit whatsoever. A discount of 20 > 50% on the amount paid is a fair compromise (assuming no claims are made).

[TETSUO]

Well, I can't remember exactly what letter I sent Policy Admin Service, but it related to receoving a copy of the original agreement. They called me and gave me two options - 1, to get a copy of the agreement and if I had signed it, I would get nothing, or they would make me an offer. I agreed that I would consider an offer they gave me, but if I wasn't hapy then I would still request the soigned original.. They made me a very reasonable offer, virtually covering the whole period tat I hadn't had the phgone and I accepted. I mentioed to them a conversation I had had with one of their advisors who had told me that he received these types of calls all the time. I pointed out that there was obviously something wrong with the way in which their polivies were being sold and that many people are obviously not aware that it is covered by a seperate agreement. I sugguested that they make it clearer to clients.

 

In short, they know what they are doing and there is probable thousands of peole still paying right now, who don't relaise what they are paying for.

 

The comments prior to this posting are correct in many ways, but don't let it put you off. I carried on and did ok out of it.

Good luck

[PoorPrince]

I had same problem. Rang my bank couple of years ago to ask about the 7.99 coming out they told me it was for my credit card so i just left it. It was only when my gf noticed i was having two amounts come out at the beginning and the end of each month that i chased it up.

Spoke to PAS and was told i had one policy from 2001 and another from 2004!! She gave me a massive talk about why I wasn't entitled to anything back, at one point she started blabbing on again and my friend rang through on call waiting so I put her on hold and spoke to my mate for a couple of minutes, switched back to PAS and she was still in full flow telling me why I couldn't get anything back.

Anyway, spoke to them again today but asked to be put through to their customer care team in order to ask for signed copies of both my insurance policies. They had neither. Was told one was a verbal agreement and they don't keep hold of documentation over two years anyway. So they had no proof I had agreed to this at all. So I asked them how they could prove that i had ever taken out one let alone two policies? They couldn't.

Customer care eventually agreed to reimburse me 3 years for both,a total of 6 years money back. Seeing that they did this shows they were worried about having no proof of my policy, i reckon i could've held out for the whole amount but was pretty chuffed with that.

Hope this helps.