TFL Magistrate Court Summons - Regulations of Railways Act 1889

[MrAdam]

Hi Guys,

 

Back in May I was stopped by Revenue Inspectors.

 

During that week I had exams, and I had lost my oyster card which was not registered. On that very morning, I asked a friend if they had a spare oyster card and they handed me it. At that time I didn't think to ask about if I was allowed to use the card since he gave me the wallet and I tapped in.

 

I was then approached by an individual who later identified himself as a Revenue Inspector. He asked to see the Oyster Card which I showed him and then he said you know you are not allowed to use a Freedom Pass belonging to another person. Of course I am aware that I am unable to use a Freedom Pass which has another person photo, but I only became aware that it was a freedom pass once It was brought to my attention by the Revenue Inspector.

 

I should have checked and made sure I was entitled to use the card but I had an exam that day, I was running Late and I had been up all night revising so I admit I did not do all that I could.

 

Then he said some stuff to me that TFL will write me a letter and said sign this and you can go. He didn't explicitly mentioned that I was being charged under the Regulations of Railways Act 1889, he just said anything you do say may be used against you in court or something along those lines. Then I left the station because I was stopped as I was about to start my journey.

 

Now I want to pursue a career where it is imperative to be CRB clear, now I understand my failings but I never intended to defraud TFL.

 

The witness statement also states the below which I don't understand: What does the last 8 journeys have to do with me?

 

"A ticket office machine (Tom) printout is generated from A London Underground ticket office. This printout details the last 8 complete journeys when it has been presented onto an Oyster Card Validator within the transport for London zonal system. It will also details when travel card have been loaded onto the Oyster Card. This printout is obtained from a person trained in the use of the ticket office machine,and no amendmenta are made to it after its compilation"

 

Any advice please.

[ATW User]

They are probably looking for a pattern of travel.

 

If the card is shown to have been used to travel the same route consistently, they may claim that you have used the card more than once.

[BazzaS]

Hi Guys,

 

Back in May I was stopped by Revenue Inspectors.

 

During that week I had exams, and I had lost my oyster card which was not registered. On that very morning, I asked a friend if they had a spare oyster card and they handed me it. At that time I didn't think to ask about if I was allowed to use the card since he gave me the wallet and I tapped in.

 

I was then approached by an individual who later identified himself as a Revenue Inspector. He asked to see the Oyster Card which I showed him and then he said you know you are not allowed to use a Freedom Pass belonging to another person. Of course I am aware that I am unable to use a Freedom Pass which has another person photo, but I only became aware that it was a freedom pass once It was brought to my attention by the Revenue Inspector.

 

I should have checked and made sure I was entitled to use the card but I had an exam that day, I was running Late and I had been up all night revising so I admit I did not do all that I could.

 

Then he said some stuff to me that TFL will write me a letter and said sign this and you can go. He didn't explicitly mentioned that I was being charged under the Regulations of Railways Act 1889, he just said anything you do say may be used against you in court or something along those lines. Then I left the station because I was stopped as I was about to start my journey.

 

Now I want to pursue a career where it is imperative to be CRB clear, now I understand my failings but I never intended to defraud TFL.

 

The witness statement also states the below which I don't understand: What does the last 8 journeys have to do with me?

 

"A ticket office machine (Tom) printout is generated from A London Underground ticket office. This printout details the last 8 complete journeys when it has been presented onto an Oyster Card Validator within the transport for London zonal system. It will also details when travel card have been loaded onto the Oyster Card. This printout is obtained from a person trained in the use of the ticket office machine,and no amendmenta are made to it after its compilation"

 

Any advice please.

 

Was the pass used previously for the same route you said you intended to travel (when asked at the station)?

 

What type (including colour) wallet was the Freedom Pass in?

 

Did they confiscate the pass? If so, was it your friend's pass?

If not : how come they had it

If so : what have they done / told TfL since??

[king12345]

"A ticket office machine (Tom) printout is generated from A London Underground ticket office. This printout details the last 8 complete journeys when it has been presented onto an Oyster Card Validator within the transport for London zonal system. It will also details when travel card have been loaded onto the Oyster Card. This printout is obtained from a person trained in the use of the ticket office machine,and no amendments are made to it after its compilation"

This is a standard paragraph added to the statement when a ticket office printout is produced in evidence.

This is done purely to prove that that particular oyster card was used to enter/exit the station at the time you were stopped.

Even if there's a clear pattern of previous use, they will only prosecute you on that single offence of when you were stopped.

You were not charged under the RRA 1889, you were simply interviewed under caution on suspicion of fare evasion under the RRA 1889.

Surely the inspector explained that you had been stopped and interviewed for fare evasion.

TfL uses the private prosecution route and they can't charge you.

At this point your record is still immaculate.

What station did this happen?

[BazzaS]

 

Even if there's a clear pattern of previous use, they will only prosecute you on that single offence of when you were stopped.

 

 

Yet it is relevant if the OP wants to suggest to TfL a route other than prosecution claiming "this was the first and only time", yet the records suggest it might not have been .......

[MrAdam]

They are probably looking for a pattern of travel.

 

If the card is shown to have been used to travel the same route consistently, they may claim that you have used the card more than once.

 

I'm confused so they will say any previous activity on the Oyster Card belongs to me?

 

Was the pass used previously for the same route you said you intended to travel (when asked at the station)?

 

What type (including colour) wallet was the Freedom Pass in?

 

Did they confiscate the pass? If so, was it your friend's pass?

If not : how come they had it

If so : what have they done / told TfL since??

 

As far as I am aware, it was not used for the same route as I was going to University, the station I mentioned is not one my friend uses as far as I am aware.

 

It was standard Oyster Card Wallet, Dark Blue wallet.

 

The confiscated the pass and it belonged to my friend. I queried this point to the individual who stopped me and he instructed me to contact TFL and tell them it had been lost.

 

"A ticket office machine (Tom) printout is generated from A London Underground ticket office. This printout details the last 8 complete journeys when it has been presented onto an Oyster Card Validator within the transport for London zonal system. It will also details when travel card have been loaded onto the Oyster Card. This printout is obtained from a person trained in the use of the ticket office machine,and no amendments are made to it after its compilation"

This is a standard paragraph added to the statement when a ticket office printout is produced in evidence.

This is done purely to prove that that particular oyster card was used to enter/exit the station at the time you were stopped.

Even if there's a clear pattern of previous use, they will only prosecute you on that single offence of when you were stopped.

You were not charged under the RRA 1889, you were simply interviewed under caution on suspicion of fare evasion under the RRA 1889.

Surely the inspector explained that you had been stopped and interviewed for fare evasion.

TfL uses the private prosecution route and they can't charge you.

At this point your record is still immaculate.

What station did this happen?

 

He never mentioned the RRA 1889 at all, but in verbatim he said you are not allowed to use this Oyster Card, which was clear once it was brought to my attention then he took my details and asked me why. I explained the above issue stating I have exams, stressed, lost my oyster card. This can be seen on the witness statement sent to me but it does not mention that I requested a spare oyster card from my friend and he gave it to me.

 

As far as I am aware he also said I'm going to take the oyster card and ask you some questions then your free to go. he said TFL would write me a letter and nothing else would happen because of my age. I do remember he cautioning me but he didn't explicitly mentioned the Charge or legislation which I was cautioned under, had He I would have researched it far more at that point (May). I was studying for Law exams at the time so i would have remembered the legislation.

 

Happened at Gants Hill (Zone 4, Central Line)

[MrAdam]

Yet it is relevant if the OP wants to suggest to TfL a route other than prosecution claiming "this was the first and only time", yet the records suggest it might not have been .......

I contacted TFL yesterday asking if they would settle this out of court since it was extentuating circumstances but the women from that Department told me go plead not-guilty at Magistrates Court.

[king12345]

They don't have to explain the law in detail when they stop you, they just need to summarily explain why you have been stopped and they did.

You can't use someone else's freedom pass.

Also, one of the standard questions is: "Do you agree that you have attempted to travel without a valid ticket avoiding your full adult fare?"

Was this asked?

If so, what did you reply, or better, what's the reply in the statement they sent you?

[MrAdam]

They don't have to explain the law in detail when they stop you, they just need to summarily explain why you have been stopped and they did.

You can't use someone else's freedom pass.

Also, one of the standard questions is: "Do you agree that you have attempted to travel without a valid ticket avoiding your full adult fare?"

Was this asked?

If so, what did you reply, or better, what's the reply in the statement they sent you?

Ok that sounds reasonable.

He said do you agree that you are not allow to use this pass. I said "Yes"

 

Thanks for your help so far, appreciate it.

[BazzaS]

I'm confused so they will say any previous activity on the Oyster Card belongs to me?

 

 

 

As far as I am aware, it was not used for the same route as I was going to University, the station I mentioned is not one my friend uses as far as I am aware.

 

It was standard Oyster Card Wallet, Dark Blue wallet.

 

The confiscated the pass and it belonged to my friend. I queried this point to the individual who stopped me and he instructed me to contact TFL and tell them it had been lost.

 

 

 

He never mentioned the RRA 1889 at all, but in verbatim he said you are not allowed to use this Oyster Card, which was clear once it was brought to my attention then he took my details and asked me why. I explained the above issue stating I have exams, stressed, lost my oyster card. This can be seen on the witness statement sent to me but it does not mention that I requested a spare oyster card from my friend and he gave it to me.

 

As far as I am aware he also said I'm going to take the oyster card and ask you some questions then your free to go. he said TFL would write me a letter and nothing else would happen because of my age. I do remember he cautioning me but he didn't explicitly mentioned the Charge or legislation which I was cautioned under, had He I would have researched it far more at that point (May). I was studying for Law exams at the time so i would have remembered the legislation.

 

Happened at Gants Hill (Zone 4, Central Line)

 

How old are you? (If you are under 18 different advice will apply)

 

Odd that a freedom pass would be in a standard blue wallet : it might be hard to explain that?.

 

Bad advice for your friend to say they lost the pass, since that then means that you must have not been given it : you must then have found it (if it wasn't given to you ), in which case you could be liable for Theft for taking it.

(The other side if the same coin is that your friend probably doesn't want to admit giving it to you to use : as that is a different offence by them! Best not to raise that unless you are asked directly, where truth is then best !)

 

I contacted TFL yesterday asking if they would settle this out of court since it was extentuating circumstances but the women from that Department told me go plead not-guilty at Magistrates Court.

 

Usual advice is to write to them, once you have the letter from them and have relevant advice from here based on their letter.

However, they usually continue to prosecution for a freedom pass abuse.

 

I'm surprised she told you to plead 'not guilty', usually they would (at most) note that you could choose to plead 'not guilty'!

[MrAdam]

How old are you? (If you are under 18 different advice will apply)

 

Odd that a freedom pass would be in a standard blue wallet : it might be hard to explain that?.

 

Bad advice for your friend to say they lost the pass, since that then means that you must have not been given it : you must then have found it (if it wasn't given to you ), in which case you could be liable for Theft for taking it.

(The other side if the same coin is that your friend probably doesn't want to admit giving it to you to use : as that is a different offence by them! Best not to raise that unless you are asked directly, where truth is then best !)

 

 

 

Usual advice is to write to them, once you have the letter from them and have relevant advice from here based on their letter.

However, they usually continue to prosecution for a freedom pass abuse.

 

I'm surprised she told you to plead 'not guilty', usually they would (at most) note that you could choose to plead 'not guilty'!

I'm over 18 unfortunately.

The only reason it was stated as lost is because I asked the revenue inspector who confiscated it as to how the original owner gets it back. He advised to state it's been lost.

 

Would my best scenario be to plead guilty, and add my mitigating circumstances, citing what I stated above and hope the fine is not too harsh. I guess it's inevitable that I'll get a record off this.

 

Another Question re: statement of income and outgoings.

 

I only recently started full time work (last month) and have not paid Council Tax but I will be doing so, shall I phone local council and query my council tax? Net pay means my wage after NI and Income tax right. I live with my friend and his family so i just contribute monthly by cash in hand, should I note that down in outgoings?

 

Do i need to post that ahead of time or can I take it with me on day of hearing?

[BazzaS]

I'm over 18 unfortunately.

The only reason it was stated as lost is because I asked the revenue inspector who confiscated it as to how the original owner gets it back. He advised to state it's been lost.

 

Would my best scenario be to plead guilty, and add my mitigating circumstances, citing what I stated above and hope the fine is not too harsh. I guess it's inevitable that I'll get a record off this.

 

Another Question re: statement of income and outgoings.

 

I only recently started full time work (last month) and have not paid Council Tax but I will be doing so, shall I phone local council and query my council tax? Net pay means my wage after NI and Income tax right. I live with my friend and his family so i just contribute monthly by cash in hand, should I note that down in outgoings?

 

Do i need to post that ahead of time or can I take it with me on day of hearing?

 

 

Now I want to pursue a career where it is imperative to be CRB clear, now I understand my failings but I never intended to defraud TFL.

 

It is inevitable you'll get a criminal record if you plead guilty (or are found guilty, having entered a "not guilty" plea).

 

You haven't explained how a Freedom Pass "jumped" from its wallet (non-blue, containing the owner's photocard) to a standard blue Oyster Wallet.

If you are going to try the "not guilty" route [if a "clean" 'CRB' (now an 'eDBS') is essential to you], you'll have to to be ready / able to explain stuff like that when a prosecutor has you on the stand ...........

[MrAdam]

It is inevitable you'll get a criminal record if you plead guilty (or are found guilty, having entered a "not guilty" plea).

 

You haven't explained how a Freedom Pass "jumped" from its wallet (non-blue, containing the owner's photocard) to a standard blue Oyster Wallet.

If you are going to try the "not guilty" route [if a "clean" 'CRB' (now an 'eDBS') is essential to you], you'll have to to be ready / able to explain stuff like that when a prosecutor has you on the stand ...........

I was just given the oyster card in its standard wallet, thats how my friend used it in that wallet.

[BazzaS]

I was just given the oyster card in its standard wallet, thats how my friend used it in that wallet.

 

I don't doubt you : I have no grounds on which to do so.

 

However, the circumstances you describe are such that I suspect it will be very hard for you to:

a) persuade TfL not to prosecute, and

b) avoid being found guilty if prosecuted.

[MrAdam]

Thanks for all your help so far.

 

I guess I'll have to try my best to convey the facts of the circumstances.

 

In regards to the Means Form, you wouldn't know when I have to hand that in would you?

[king12345]

You will need to hand in the means form before the trial (if you plead not guilty).

Most people don't bother to post it in advance and hand it in on the day.

If we could see the statement (minus identification details) maybe we could advise further.

If you decided to plead not guilty, would your friend be willing to stand as a witness?

[MrAdam]

You will need to hand in the means form before the trial (if you plead not guilty).

Most people don't bother to post it in advance and hand it in on the day.

If we could see the statement (minus identification details) maybe we could advise further.

If you decided to plead not guilty, would your friend be willing to stand as a witness?

Can I hand it to the clerk before I go in?

I don't have access to scanner so can I type it out verbatim?

The issue is, it will cause him stress, he's disabled and situations like this has already effected him.

 

Also, it says that I need to inform TFL if I intend to plead not guilty. I guess pleading not guilty means there will be another date set?

 

Is there anyway I can plead not guilty and hear the verdict same day without waiting for a new date?

[king12345]

You need to inform the court if you plead not guilty.

I don't understand what you mean with "Is there anyway I can plead not guilty and hear the verdict same day without waiting for a new date?"

If a date has been set and it's not convenient for you to attend, you contact the court and change the date.

[BazzaS]

 

Also, it says that I need to inform TFL if I intend to plead not guilty. I guess pleading not guilty means there will be another date set?

 

Is there anyway I can plead not guilty and hear the verdict same day without waiting for a new date?

 

1st question : yes.

2nd question: no.

 

If you plead not guilty, the case is adjourned, and a new date set, so that you (and the other witnesses, such as staff who stopped you / interviewed you) can all attend when the case is heard, so the evidence can be given and witnesses questioned.

[king12345]

1st question : yes.

 

2nd question: no.

 

 

 

If you plead not guilty, the case is adjourned, and a new date set, so that you (and the other witnesses, such as staff who stopped you / interviewed you) can all attend when the case is heard, so the evidence can be given and witnesses questioned.

If he waits for the court date to plead not guilty he would attend court twice.

He needs to plead not guilty now so a mutual convenient date can be set for trial.