Not UK resident, CCJ in my absence - need N244 and bailiff advice

[bilderberger]

I've spent a couple of long evenings searching the forum and reading threads but havent been able to find anyone with quite the same situation, so I thought I would sign up and make my first post to ask for a little help regarding a CCJ, bailiffs and the correct way to handle an N244 application.

 

My situation is that I left the UK about six years ago, got married and now live and work in eastern europe (EU member state). I have only now found out that a CCJ has been made in my absence for an old final mobile phone bill I was sure I had paid when I was emigrating. Its possible that I could have forgotten about it, I havent yet been able to find the paperwork from back then and I closed my bank accounts so i would have to write to make a subject access request to check properly. The judgment was for a sum of around £690 + costs which was entered about three or four months, but now with bailiffs and everything they add on its been inflated to about £1200 although for some reason the order was made (or requested by the creditor perhaps?) for monthly payments of £50 rather than the full amount. No idea why. Anyway, the payments obviously havent been made so an order for enforcement has been made.

 

I have only just been made aware of this situation as Lowells seem to have bought the debt from O2 at some point and a CCJ was obtained at my parents address where I lived for a short while before moving - they just got a bailiffs enforcement notice. The debt, if it turns out I do still owe it, would be statute barred in the next three or four months, which must be why they decided to go for a judgment.

 

I've asked dad to write to the court and bailiffs notifying that I havent lived there for years so they don't get bothered by someone trying to take their stuff. Is there anything else I should ask them to do so the bailiffs don't try barging in on my elderly parents regarding something that really doesn't concern them at all? Should my parents give them an alternate mail address for me? is there something particular I should ask them to do in this situation?

 

I'd also like some advice on correctly preparing an N244 to ask for the judgment to be set aside on the basis that I am not a UK resident (and I did not receive the court papers if this additionally helps my position). I have no property in the UK and have notified HMRC et al of my depature when I left.

 

Here are my questions about N244 and my request to set aside:

1. how should I word my reply to Q3. on N244 where it says "what order are you asking the court to make and why?" - would something like this suffice: "I respectfully request that the court set aside the above referenced judgement on the basis that I am not a UK resident and did not receive the original claim notice dated xxxx in a timely manner." Is anything additional to this necessary? Do I need to quote any case or civil law in respects to this? Will the court set the judgment aside on this basis alone or do I need additional arguments? Should I also request that any enforcement action be stayed?

 

2. Do i need to attach a draft order (Q4)?

 

3. should I request a hearing (Q5)? can this be set aside without? It will be impossible for me to attend as I simply could not afford to fly back to attend court any time in the near future - would I be able to represent my case sufficiently by the information in 1. above?

 

4. The question "How long do you think the hearing will last? (Q6)" - I'd optimistically like to think 5mins would be enough to consider "not a uk resident - judgment set aside" - but realistically, what should I put here?

 

5. what level of Judge is needed for the hearing (Q8), that can set this aside? Clerk? Master of court? District Judge?

 

6. Who should be served with my N244 application (Q9)? Is this purely for the court or also for the creditor?

 

7. What sort of proof or evidence should be attached - I might have some old letter from HMRC confirming I am no longer resident for tax purposes or possibly get them to confirm that again in writing, I definitely have a foreign language document showing my first non-UK residency address. I could get my parents to give a witness statement to that effect also.

 

8. Is being non-resident justification enough to set this CCJ aside or is there a chance a judge might let the Default order stand?

 

9. Will the creditor get a copy of everything I submit as part of my N244 application? I'm reluctant to give them my new address in eastern europe in case they try to get bailiffs after me out here, though I have a mail forwarding address in the USA which I could use for this purpose. From what I read, the bailiffs in the UK are bad enough, but the ones out here have a reputation for hanging you up in the forest overnight by your feet

 

Thank you in advance for any and all advice you can offer me - this forum is really such a wealth of information...!

[bilderberger]

I tried to explain my situation in detail but if I have omitted or overlooked anything that would be necessary for anyone to give any suggestions I apologize

[bilderberger]

Ok, I've made a little progress on this matter and thought I'd update the thread for the benefit of anyone else in a similar situation - if anyone is able to answer my questions on the remaining points, I'd still be very grateful

 

1. how should I word my reply to Q3. on N244 where it says "what order are you asking the court to make and why?"

 

From what I can see, not being resident in the UK at the time of the claim+hearing should be entirely a good enough reason to request the CCJ be set aside. So for Q3 on N244 I am planning to write this:

I respectfully request that the court set aside the above referenced judgement on the basis that I am not currently a UK resident and was not residing in the UK at the time of the claim being issued, nor at the time of the court hearing. Furthermore I did not receive the original claim notice dated XXX.

 

If anything additional to this is necessary, please feel free to comment I hope I don't need to any law rules on this but I read somewhere else that CPR6.6 (link to justice.gov removed) applies here ("The claim form must be served within the jurisdiction"). Do I need to quote this in my argument in some way?

 

My only remaining question here is whether I should also request in this part of N244 that any enforcement action be stayed?

 

I found a handy guide at national debtline (link to guide removed) which actually answered some of my remaining questions about N244 - I had done quite a bit of digging when I posted my original thread but I hadnt found that page so apologies for asking un-necessary questions - I'll answer my own questions anyway:

 

2. Do i need to attach a draft order (Q4)?

 

The debtline page above suggests I shouldnt do this, but elsewhere on CAG i've read that I should submit a draft - any help on what this should write in a draft would be hugely appreciated -and should this draft also mention staying enforcement of the CCJ, and should I also ask for costs for my application back?

 

3. should I request a hearing (Q5)? can this be set aside without? It will be impossible for me to attend as I simply could not afford to fly back to attend court any time in the near future

 

The debtline page says that it would probably need a hearing but I'm wondering if I should leave it blank to let the court decide what is necessary?

 

4. The question "How long do you think the hearing will last? (Q6)"

 

Going to leave this blank

 

5. what level of Judge is needed for the hearing (Q8)?

 

Also to be left blank

 

6. Who should be served with my N244 application (Q9)? Is this purely for the court or also for the creditor?

 

Seems that this relates to a solicitor, so will also be left blank.

 

7. What sort of proof or evidence should be attached.

 

Looks like I just need proof I'm not resident so I have a letter from HMRC that I will use in this case.

 

9. Will the creditor get a copy of everything I submit as part of my N244 application?

 

Yes, they do get a copy of the application so I will be bearing that in mind with regards to what information is included in my application.

 

 

I've asked dad to write to the court and bailiffs notifying that I havent lived there for years so they don't get bothered by someone trying to take their stuff. Is there anything else I should ask them to do so the bailiffs don't try barging in on my elderly parents regarding something that really doesn't concern them at all? Should my parents give them an alternate mail address for me? is there something particular I should ask them to do in this situation?

 

This bailiff problem is still something I'm really worried about - I gather the bailiffs are just acting on the courts orders so it seems like they really can try to enforce at my parents address - my dad has written to the court and bailiffs but I don't know if that is enough to stop them visiting?

[bilderberger]

teensy bump, re: my last few unanswered questions above

[bilderberger]

Re-reading my last post, its probably a bit of a sprawl and I'm trying to clear up too many points at once - I'll therefore clarify it all by just asking if anyone has an opinion about this one question:

 

From what I can see, not being resident in the UK at the time of the claim+hearing should be entirely a good enough reason to request the CCJ be set aside. So for Q3 on N244 I am planning to write this:

I respectfully request that the court set aside the above referenced judgement on the basis that I am not currently a UK resident and was not residing in the UK at the time of the claim being issued, nor at the time of the court hearing. Furthermore I did not receive the original claim notice dated XXX.

 

If anything additional to this is necessary, please feel free to comment I hope I don't need to quote any law rules on this but I read somewhere else that CPR6.6 (link to justice.gov removed) applies here ("The claim form must be served within the jurisdiction"). Do I need to quote this in my argument in some way?

 

should I also request in this part of N244 that any enforcement action be stayed?

 

Will this be enough to set aside the CCJ? Would I also need to provide a defense for the claim?

[unclebulgaria67]

Re-reading my last post, its probably a bit of a sprawl and I'm trying to clear up too many points at once - I'll therefore clarify it all by just asking if anyone has an opinion about this one question:

 

 

 

Will this be enough to set aside the CCJ? Would I also need to provide a defense for the claim?

 

I don't think it will be enough, if you did not tell the creditor you had moved abroad. I have read many people post here, saying Judges have not accepted the gone abroad argument, because the debtor did not advise the creditor they had moved.

 

Think you will have to give arguments about the debt as well. Where you in dispute and did you stay in contact with the creditors ? If so, provide details of this.

 

Was the debt statute barred at the time the court claim was made ? I think you should try to get hold of evidence that supports this, before you submit the set aside application. If you are going to spend £155 on a set aside application, you need to do it properly. You also need to think about what you would do, if a hearing date was set.

[bilderberger]

I don't think it will be enough, if you did not tell the creditor you had moved abroad. I have read many people post here, saying Judges have not accepted the gone abroad argument, because the debtor did not advise the creditor they had moved.

 

Thanks - it seems strange that if I had been able to submit a defense, I could have just submitted proof that I dont live in the UK and not under the jurisdiction of the court in order to have the claim dismissed. Since I don't live in the UK and didnt receive the court claim I obviously couldn't do this, and yet now judgment has been entered it seems I cannot easily get it set aside either...

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks - it seems strange that if I had been able to submit a defense, I could have just submitted proof that I dont live in the UK and not under the jurisdiction of the court in order to have the claim dismissed. Since I don't live in the UK and didnt receive the court claim I obviously couldn't do this, and yet now judgment has been entered it seems I cannot easily get it set aside either...

 

Yes you cannot easily get it set aside without making an argument about the debt The reason being is that a Judge has to believe that the claim made was faulty in some way or you have an argument to make about the debt, if there was to be a hearing about it. It is not just a set aside because you were not in the UK at the time.

[Ganymede]

Thanks - it seems strange that if I had been able to submit a defense, I could have just submitted proof that I dont live in the UK and not under the jurisdiction of the court in order to have the claim dismissed. Since I don't live in the UK and didnt receive the court claim I obviously couldn't do this, and yet now judgment has been entered it seems I cannot easily get it set aside either...

 

Where are you now living?

 

Being aboard doesn't mean that the claim will automatically be dismissed.

 

What is the size of the debt?

 

If it's a large amount then the CCJ could be set aside and the Claimant given permission to re-serve it on you out of jurisdiction. It just depends if it's financially worth all the hassle.