New tactics by MBNA

[Guest Battleaxe]

For the last twenty four hours I have been rung (number withheld of course) by an automated system being used by MBNA. The calls are getting closer in frequency. My DD was returned for the October payment on my loan. this loan has never had any problems. It is the MBNA CC we are having problems with and by asking for me it is the loan they are ringing about.

 

I am now seriously thinking they can work for the October payment. I am so annoyed with their tactics. if this was a regular late payment ok, not really but I could understand the tactics. it is not and payment has always been regular and on time, oh only nce before when the bank got snaky and returned the DD because it was called for early. This Oct payment was not called for until the 30th when they should have called for it on the 27th for the 28th.

 

 

A disembodied states , this is a telephone call from MBNA for Mrs Battleaxe, to continue the call press any key, for the heck of it, the first cople times I hit the disconnect key. By 8pm last night this was wearing thin, so I pressed 1, for the voice to continue if I was me press 1 if ot me press 5. I pressed 1, then it went on telling me if I tried to authenticate my identity and it wasn't me I was committing an illegal act, then it asked me to key in my date of birth and telephone number I had enough and disconnected. Only to be rung again half an hour later. I got mad, google MBNA and got hold of an 0800 number and rang, I got a hapless lady and let rip, to find I had rung the cc number I explained what was happening and she tried to get through to loans, no one there, so I can only assume it was that call centre across the sea.

 

I whipped off the Telephone harassment number and filled in the details relevant, then found the consumer advocated email address and emailed the letter to them. I had the orignal in an envelope ready for posting recorded delivery (which was done at 9am this morning). In my covering email I also mentioned that I had diarised what MBNA are doing on the GAC website. (Battleaxe does MBNA)

 

I get another call after 9pm, this time areal person, she asked for me by name, I said I am she and then asked if it was MBNA, she said yes, so I let rip and read her the letter and then hung up.

 

10.16 this morning, another call, but this time it disconnected when I answered, checked 1471 and number withheld. Now would the culprit be? You whistle, I will point.

 

I am wondering how long they have been using this ploy and if we answer and play their new game, how much are we being charged for these calls, you can bet your boots, they aren't paying for this.

 

I also assumed it was Mumbai or wherever, because the disembodied voice cannot pronounce my given name correctly.

 

The other thing, if this call was answered by a nosy teenager who knew my details and the call continued, can they really do anything about the illegalities of their disembodied warning?

 

Just thought I would bring this to everyone's attention to be prepared about the new tactics used by MBNA

[buzby]

First time I've heard of any firm using outbound call voice menu systems - and this so-called 'illegal act' of you not being you when they initiated the call has yet to be tested in court. (If their systems fail by releasing your info to a third party who randoimly entered numbers, makes them liable).

 

From what you explain, I think adding ACR (Anonymous Call Rejection) to your phone line is a must, as it will force this disclosure if they insist in calling you. You can always recover the cost of this by adding it to any claim you plan to issue to them. (However, if the call comes in identified as 'International' you'll be unhappy to know this is still a loophole).

[Guest Battleaxe]

I wish we could use the ACR option, but most hospitals also use restricated number identification and as MOTH has cancer we cannot put this service on the phone, we have everything else TPN and 14258 Silent Call Guard.

 

Guess I am going to start action on the Loan, just got a letter stating they have £25.00 to the loan and will be adding another £25.00 if they do not get the payment for October is not received in 30 days another £25.00 will be added to the account and they are going to call for the DD again in 10 days time.

 

Here we go again. I am tempted now to put this account into dispute and withold this October payment.

[Guest Battleaxe]

I have just rung MBNA 12.10pm explained the circumstances, for the reply until there is guaranteed payment system in place i will keep getting letters and phone calls in spite of my instructins and trying to set up repayment. they do not want manual they are saying T & C's state DD payment and they will call for it again.

 

I had just explained the DD has been cancelled, we have moved banks and i will paying manually in future.

 

I also told her I am claiming back any charges with interest and if this harassment continues, they can test the lawfullness of their actions in court.

 

She said you can report us to whoever you like but while the account is in arrears we can do this.

 

So I replied that if this continues every letter and every phone call will be attached to my Court Bundle. I also said I am commencing proceeding to recover the charge already levied.

 

I told her I am not going to pay by DD with the new bank account. I will be making future payments manually.

 

I then hung up.

[buzby]

I wish we could use the ACR option, but most hospitals also use restricated number identification and as MOTH has cancer we cannot put this service on the phone, we have everything else TPN and 14258 Silent Call Guard..

 

You might want to check this again - OFTEL ruled that after 10 years, it was unreasonable for Hospital Trusts etc to withold their number, simply because their internal exchange couldn;t support it - they all do now! If they do not present the actual number of the ward, they show either the main switchboard number OR a number that plays a recorded message, explaining that it is that hospital/trust that called, and they'll call you back. Also, just because ytou have ACR doesn't stop them calling you - the message explains that they need to unblock the number. If hte need to contact you is serious, they will.

[buzby]

I wish we could use the ACR option, but most hospitals also use restricated number identification and as MOTH has cancer we cannot put this service on the phone, we have everything else TPN and 14258 Silent Call Guard..

 

You might want to check this again - OFTEL ruled that after 10 years, it was unreasonable for Hospital Trusts etc to withold their number, simply because their internal exchange couldn;t support it - they all do now! If they do not present the actual number of the ward, they show either the main switchboard number OR a number that plays a recorded message, explaining that it is that hospital/trust that called, and they'll call you back. Also, just because ytou have ACR doesn't stop them calling you - the message explains that they need to unblock the number. If they need to contact you is serious, they will.

[Guest Battleaxe]

I have spoken to the OFT, very helpful and have included everything in my complaint and emailed it through to them.

 

The lady said they are investigating other omplaints regarding MBNA, but the outbound automated calls is new.

[buzby]

 

I then hung up.

 

Good for you. This is the ONLY response to these bullying tactics. A further comms alternative is to get BTs Call Sign service (which gives you an additional number on the same line) and use it as a temporary respite for wanted incoming calls (from hospitals and friends).

[Guest Battleaxe]

Okonski,

 

thank you for this info, but the local hospital is not up to date. they tried to get hold of us urgently when we had the barring on the phone and could not. I phoned them with a complaint and they told me they had been trying to ring us for several hours and kept getting the message that we were not accepting calls from them. i spoke to BT about this and there was no way around other than taking the service off.

 

I had another call from MBNA about half an hour ago asking to speak to me, so I told her it was me and I was not going through the crap of identifying myself, then hung up again.

 

We live out in the sticks and there are no spare numbers, I have neighbours who have to use mobile phones because no capacity for new numbers. So useless asking for a spare number.

 

Too far into town to get a telphone answering service and if it is my oseas family and friends calling I don't want them to have to go through a screening process because of MBNA.

 

I am trying to find the number to report the breach of the telcoms act. Do you know it?

[buzby]

Not germain to the main query - your hospital is in breach for making calls and witholding their number. Also, you ire should not be diminished because they chose to hide their number - or have the intelligence to call from a line that doesn't have number supression. (It makes you wonder if their patient care is any better).

 

You misunderstand - the number BT provide is a 'virtual' one - it is not a second line, so the issues you explained don't apply - only if the exchange is not a digital one.

 

As to breaching the Telecoms act - OFTEL/OFCOM used to take these complaints, but they don't now. You have to be quite precise as to what you're objecting to - if it harassment, then it is a police matter (under s40 of the Justrice Act) however getting them to take this seriously is a major problem - they don;t see it as one if it is a firm, or more especially - and this will be where OFCOM walk away from it, as the calls are made outwith the UK and therefore ouytwith the scope of UK legistlation.

[Guest Battleaxe]

I feel like I have turned into a professional complainer of late. our local hospital is being reviewed and may be closed y the stratigic health authority, we lodged a complaint about the treatment or rather non treatment and laise faire attitude by the oncologist, that certainly sparked some action. To think i was a senior manager in that place, but then I am pleading ignorance as was in charge of the Post Graduate Medical Education Centre and then was made redundant after I put all the systems in place. made me redundant and then they have to hire three people at lower salary, when all put together cames to more than my annual salary and still try to ring me for corporate knowledge. I digress.

 

Looks lkie I phone the loacl cop shop and have chat to them about the telecoms breach.

[buzby]

I've always found getting the police to take an interest in anytihng is a major effort - if they can't tell you it's a 'civil matter' it'll be passed to a senior officer to decide IF they'll do anyting. As noted before, calls originating from overseas are exempt - even if they're made on behalf of a UK division - so don;t be surprised if they 'choose to refuse'!

[Guest Battleaxe]

Success I have lodged a complaint with the police, they did try to say it was civil matter, but when I quoted the three acts and they checked they gave me an incident number cc-02112006-20361 and someone is coming out to see me. i also told them OFCOM/OFTEL no longer handle these complaints it is a police matter, he checked that.

 

I was also advised to change my number, to which i told them this is not an option, neither was the BT option, but they can now crack on with things.

 

Another victory

[buzby]

Good. Keep the thread updated as it will be interesting to see if the Police will use the 'overseas' get out or will ignore this to pursue the firm causing the hassle!

[Guest Battleaxe]

Apparently if the call centre is O/seas and it is MBNA's (as we well know) MBNA is the company being investigated as the call centre is acting on the MBNA UK instructions, not get out clause at all. I was told by the operator here in England they will keep calling until I pay and it their right to do this.

 

i will keep you updated. Oh, Mr lod asked if is alright for them (police ) to call me, so i said if they curt a answer when they ring, they are to understand why.

 

Suddenly it has become quiet, haven't had a call for nearly 3/4 of an hour.

 

I gave the police Mr Steven Smith's name and his position as the Consumer Finance Manager.

 

Update had a call from the police and they are going to start investigating and if I can have the relevant bits of legislation to hand to help the investigating officers and they are going to take to the Crown prosecutor's office for action. it is all uncharted waters.

 

I am also to tell MBNA next time they call that the police are now investigating their actions regarding telpehone calls and to give MBNA the complaint number.

 

I hope Mr Steven Smith reads this.

[demon_x_slash]

Gods. A member of the public has to have copies of the law to hand to help the police investigate a crime...

 

 

...is anyone else seeing anything really daft here?

 

 

Seriously though, Battleaxe, keep updating, I'm refreshing with bated breath. Good luck.

[buzby]

I know of many situations were OFTEL/OFCOM walked away from complaints due to calls coming in from overseas. Their remit is/was to regulate calls mad from within the UK, as their ability to fine transgressors were ONLY those who held licences issued by them. The police, of course can look beyond this and make a causal connection between the Indian call centre and the firm they are acting for - allowing their complaint to proceed. However, the CPS here is the arbiter, and if they say they're not interested (as prosecutor) you're options then are limitred - but still satisfying. You take MBNA to the Small Claims Court, stating that you wish your telephone numbers removed from their records, with all future contact to be made via written correspondence. If they break this rule, they're liable for an action of contempt and civil damages.

[buzby]

Gods. A member of the public has to have copies of the law to hand to help the police investigate a crime...

...is anyone else seeing anything really daft here?

Seriously though, Battleaxe, keep updating, I'm refreshing with bated breath. Good luck.

 

Not really - that's why sites like these are so useful - SOMEONE has been there before and knows the wrinkles, and that information helps everyone else. The biggest problem with the police is getting round the 'civil matter' roadblock. Threaten an MBNA call centre with a brick and you'll be locked up before you can say 'Section 40'!

[thomasg]

Just a thought use an anser machineone you can disregaured the message and two you will have an on going record I too have had this from MBNA I've just cab#ncelled the mesage in the past David

[Guest Battleaxe]

Thank you for the suggestion regarding the answering machine, BIG problem here, family overseas and I don't want them having their calls answered this way here with an answer machine. They would immediately think MOTH has taken a turn for the worse and nowing the kids would be on the first plane out to get here. This is why the phone goes to bed with me.

 

No I will let the police decide what action is persued.

 

Funny thing after speaking to OFT, no phone calls, but then again we had to go to GP's last night and out getting meds. the phone rang once, I was hesitant answering it, and it was the Police letting me know the state of play.

[Worzel]

Lets get one thing straight here - you do not need to change your telephone number or hide behind an answer machine. The law is on your side - stand firm and resolute

 

I don't know what communication you've had with MBNA, but should you receive one call from them send the letter below - it worked for me

 

 

Customer Assistance Department

MBNA Bank Europe Ltd

PO Box 30

Chester

CH4 9FD

 

November 3, 2006

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account No. # # # # # # # # # # # # # #

 

Despite informing you on several occasions that I do not wish to receive telephone calls from MBNA, and the initiation of a complaint to the Police in respect of you ignoring my requests, telephone calls are still being received from MBNA. Therefore I’d like to take this opportunity to make things clear.

 

You are at liberty to use any LAWFUL means at your disposal in relation to my account. Similarly, there are laws that protect me as an individual. Several laws protect me from telephone calls that I may consider unwanted, stressful or in harassment. I am finding your constant telephone calls very stressful. I am also finding them intimidatory, to the point where I now fear future calls.

 

Therefore, I am officially informing you that I will only deal with MBNA, or someone acting under their instructions, in writing and wish all telephone calls to stop immediately. All future correspondence from MBNA, or someone acting under their instructions, (for any reason whatsoever) must be made in writing.

 

In case you are not aware of the laws in question you may wish to study the following:

 

1) Communications Act 2003, Section 127

 

2) Human Rights Act 1990, Article 8 - Right to respect for private and family life

 

3) Administration of Justice Act 1970, Section 40 onwards

 

4) Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949, misuse

 

As I have already stated I am finding this situation very stressful and wish to avoid further distress whilst regaining my financial position, I therefore trust you will fulfil your legal obligation in this matter.

 

Should you decide to ignore this request and telephone calls continue then your methods may be considered as harassment. Although harassment is covered by Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 I may feel it necessary to take action under the Protection from Harassment Act 1970. Either way, I am sure you are aware that the Courts have the power to remove the debt owed if harassment can be proven.

 

It may also be worth bearing in mind that the Citizens Advice Bureaux consider just one unjustifiable telephone call when chasing a debt to be harassment; breaching Acts of Law for any reason is unjustifiable.

 

With the above in mind I feel it is fair to advise you that all telephone calls to my private and mobile telephone will now be recorded. Recordings will be used in any action taken.

 

To reiterate, I am officially informing you that I will only deal with MBNA, or someone acting under their instructions, in writing and wish all telephone calls to stop immediately. All future correspondence from MBNA, or someone acting under their instructions, (for any reason whatsoever) must be made in writing.

 

Failure to comply with this request will be considered to be a breach of my rights and further action will be taken.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Should you receive a call after this stand firm. Tell them that the call is being recorded, and advise them that the call is in breach of your request as outlined in your letter dated . . . . . . . Also tell them that you believe an unlawful act has taken place and that further action will be taken in respect of this. Then hang up!

 

Just a suggestion - Good luck!

 

Worz

[buzby]

Lets get one thing straight here - you do not need to change your telephone number or hide behind an answer machine. Worz

 

Of course you don't. However there's little point suffering at their hands when something as simple as a number change stops them dead in their tracks! One could argue points of law until you're blue in the face, all it does is raise your blood pressure - and there's still the unresolved issue of whether calls from overseas would be in contept of English or Scottish law - I doubt they would.

[Worzel]

One could argue points of law until you're blue in the face, all it does is raise your blood pressure

Actually, I find the act of telling unwanted callers 'the score' and putting the phone down on them quite refreshing

 

Besides, why should I have to go through the hassle of changing numbers, informing everyone, etc just because a company can't operate within the law?

 

On the subject of calls from overseas - surely if they are under instruction from, or on behalf of, a UK based company/organisation/whatever then they are covered by UK law?

 

Either way, stand and fight - that's the only way to stop them!

 

Worz

[Guest Battleaxe]

A change of number is not an option in our case.

 

Too many factors involved with this. believe me if it was possible I would.

 

Family overseas, hospitals, doctors and Defence establishments (MOTH's employment), both here and overseas.

 

Had another call from the police. I need to get Unholy Alliance to reply to me.

 

This number is also used by clients to contact me (I work freelance, when the work is there).

 

Strange, no call so far from MBNA today. i jumped when the phone rang, only to discover it is was the police.

 

I am going to send Worzel's letter to them. Adapt it, as I don't have a mobile phone.

 

The plice have said this harassment by MBNA is a grey area and there is no precedent. I said I am willing to be the test case. I have to admit he was trying to see both sides, so I said there is trust needed on both sides. he was going to ruiing MBNA and ask them to stop phoning me, and I said they wont take any notice, as he could be anyone, even if he did ask them to ring him back.

 

My complaint has now been passed up to the Sergeant.

[Guest Battleaxe]

While the police were here getting my statement another call came from Miss Mumbai, she was going to go through the security crap, when I interupted her and told her I had the Police with me and would she like to talk to talk to them. Then I reiterated my sostion qioted the relevant acts and told her if I get called again, now that I have police complaint number and she has contacted me in their presence MBNA can cotinue these tactics at their peril. I also reminded when it goes to court that A judge can cancel the whole debt as compensationn for the distrees MBNA has caused me. i hung up.

 

I ahve been advised next time they ring, to get all the details the police want and then ask to be put through to the manager and exactly what is happening.

 

So far no call.