PCN from UKCPS

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

Hello

 

I reacently received a PCN from UKCPS because I had parked outside a "bay"

- as were many other cars because there were no more spaces,

 

it was a very busy evening as 3 blockbuster movies were just released

 

- I drafted the below letter and would like some suggestions or comments.

 

To whom it may concern

 

On 26 April I visited the Valley centertainment leisure park with my family.

We had a lovely evening only to be met with a “parking invoice” slapped on to my windscreen at the end of it.

When we arrived at the leisure park there was vast amount of people trying to find parking space.

I was fortunate to find a space to park, which I strongly believe was a safe and an appropriate space.

I was not blocking any fire escapes, fire muster points, pathways, pedestrian crossing, disabled access or vehicle access.

There were no signs to indicate that I was not permitted to park there.

Later did I see on the new parking enforcement scheme on http://www.valley-leisure.co.uk/parking-enforcement-scheme

that parking is restricted to bays only, however one could argue that it is a polite request hence the please in the beginning of your request i

n the anticipation of carefully using the space around the car park in a safe manor as many a time this happens on very busy events,

such as on the release of blockbuster primer films showing that weekend was the case.

So evidently, there is a level of discrepancy, and I understand that the parking enforcement is there to ensure the safety of the visitors and staff,

however as someone with sound health and safety understanding there was no way that my decision in parking at the end of a row of bays,

might I add, was unsafe.

I anticipate that you will reconsider this invoice in kind gesture, firm notice or an avoidance of a lengthy, time consuming process.

Please consider that the local council does not charge so exorbitantly on public roads and you both aim to provide similar services

in terms of parking facilities and enforcement.

 

I suggest either one of the following out comes saving both parties time and money.

 

· A full cancelation of the ticket (parking restrictions weren’t apparent or clear on arriving to an unfamiliar, out of town destination).

I would greatly appreciate and consider it as a serious caution, notice for future visits.

 

· You do not reconsider and wish to peruse the charges. In which case I humbly decline the charge and wait for you to proceed with court actions.

 

 

I would be truely grateful if someone could help.

 

Thank you.

[ericsbrother]

Ok,

they slapped a ticket on your car so I would wait for the moment for the notice to keeper through the post.

 

This must arrive not sooner than 29 days after the ticket and not after 56 days.

 

Outside these times and the demand becomes void and they have to pursue the driver instead.

 

If you appeal now it identifies you as both driver and keeper and they get your address details for free whereas if you wait,

they have to pay to get the details and anything that costs them money is a good thing.

 

When you get the letter to keeper reply only as keeper so dont say I parked but say my vehicle was parked etc.

Then point out that the signage that they rely on to form a contract isnt actually doing so

and therefore neither the keeper or the driver have breached any contractual obligation that would allow UKPCS

to claim for a contractual sum or any breach of contract.

 

They may well write to you and claim otherwise nut they MUST give you a POPLA code so you may appeal to the independent adjudicator.

 

When you make this appeal it costs them money and then you can argue this same point and also that the breach

-if it exists hast cost them anything and that they should show thatn the charge is a genuine pre-estimate

of loss for your car being parked as it was.

 

That invariably kills the claim but I would use as much ammunition as possible

including challenging the signage as inadequate and confusing, lack of authority

- ask for sight of contract with landlord and anything else that comes to mind when you read the other posts here..

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

Thank you kind sir.

[silverfox1961]

Hi

An excellent post there by ericsbrother and good advice to follow.

 

The letter you have drafted may as well go in the bin as you will be appealing as the keeper of the vehicle and not the driver whom you will not disclose to UKPCS.

 

Any letter you send must say 'The Driver' but we can help deal with that when the letter arrives.

 

Also, marked bays on private land are advisory not mandatory and as such are graffiti.

 

I would also go back and photograph the signs which we (by we I mean ericsbrother ) can pull apart.

 

There will also be the question of breach of contract and Genuine Pre Estimate of Loss (GPEOL).

 

Make sure you follow timelines once you get the Notice to Keeper.

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

Hello I have read lots of different comments on other threads and some say that you must NOT ignore the PCN.Any help??

[armadillo71]

Hello I have read lots of different comments on other threads and some say that you must NOT ignore the PCN.Any help??

 

You are not ignoring, you are waiting for a Notice To Keeper through the post. This must be received between 28-56 days after the Notice To Driver (windscreen ticket). This is what you will respond to...

[ericsbrother]

If you do respond now they will know that you are both the driver and keeper of the vehicle, which means that it is harder to pull them up for procedural errors. If you can, get the other bits of info, such as the wording on the signs, situation of the signage relative to the entrance of the car park, whether signs are visible to soemone parking or whether you have to get out and walk up to them to read them etc.

These big centres are usually owned by developers such as British Land. who dont care about their tenants that much, let alone customers so it will be worth knowing at some point who signed the contract with the parking co as it is often a management agency and that makes the agreement worthless wen it comes to the parking co chasing you.

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

UCPS have wrote to me demanding that I pay £100

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

[ATTACH]51381[/ATTACH]

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

That's the letter they sent

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]51392[/ATTACH]

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

And this is the sign posted in the parking area which was quite a distance from where i had parked.

[silverfox1961]

Any chance of converting them to pdfs as they are quite small.

 

Now is the time to draft your appeal as the keeper.

[ericsbrother]

OK, appeal the charge to the company by saying that the signage was not visible to the driver and therefore no contract was formed to be breached.

Leave it at that, they will say all sorts of things but if they reject your argument they must provide the POPLA code so you can appeal to the independent adjudicator wheer you can bite their backside with more arguments that currently are 100% successful.

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]51399[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51398[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51399[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51398[/ATTACH]

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]51400[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51401[/ATTACH]

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

I hope the above are better!

[armadillo71]

I hope the above are better!

 

Not really!

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc*

but leave all monetary figures and dates.*

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or*http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use*http://www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or*CAG*in the title

i'e Default notice*DD-mm-yyyy*

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

you can click on your links to check them too!

.

dx

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]51588[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51587[/ATTACH]

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

I really hope that's better.

Any guidance on how I should draft my response?

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

Are there any template letters that I could follow?

[ericsbrother]

just write what I said in mu post. They will either accept it (very unlikely) or rejest and have to provide you with a POPLA code so you can appeal their decision.

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

I am writing to formally appeal your contractual parking charge. I believe that you have no right to form this contract since neither the driver nor keeper agreed with any contract with you. . My car was not blocking any fire escapes, fire muster points, pathways, pedestrian crossing, disabled access or vehicle access. There were no signs to indicate that by my vehicle being parked there it had entered in to a formal contract. If there are signs they aren’t abundantly clear nor act as any sort of deterrent in enforcing a strict parking policy, informing the leisure centre users that your aim is to provide safe and secure parking rather than looking to charge users for not understanding confusing, and unclear signage that doesn’t attract attention and blends into the environment. Your signs have hardly any colour and it just seems like you have made every effort for it to be camouflaged so people would not realise its authority or even presence. I don’t understand how, as you claim, that my vehicle has cost you anything, and if so I would like for you to some how justify why you think its acceptable to charge £100, which by the way is approximately £70 more than what the local council might charge. So in brief could you provide a GPEOL (Genuine Pre Estimate of Loss) explanation? Could you also provide me with info regarding the owner of the site and who signed the contract with UKCPS and under what sort of agreements. I anticipate your response

[Ireallyhatebanks878]

I have drafted the above response any suggestions would be met with great gratitude.

[ericsbrother]

it is nearly all irrelevant expansion of the main thrust of the argument and that is:-

It is denied that a contract has been entered into as the signs offering the conditions for parking "the contract" were not visible and the contents not clear enough to be considered by the driver of the vehicle. Therefore no contract has been formed due to ignorance of the contract and thus it cannot be considered to have been breached. I look forward to you cancelling your demand or providing a POPLA code if you think that you have evidence that is contrary to this submission.

 

When you get a response you can appeal to popla with an expansion on this theme and other things as well, as alresdy mentioned. I wouldnt waste ammunition at this juncture though.