spiritgirl59 -v- Lloyds Bank ** WON **

[spiritgirl59]

Hi everyone

 

I sent my Request for Payment of Charges letter to Lloyds by recorded delivery on 13th October. I am requesting the refund of over £2,000 in unfair charges on our current account for the last 6 years plus over £1,500 on our business account. I made a note in my diary that if I had not heard from them I had to follow up with the letter before action in 2 weeks.

 

Imagine our surprise when we received a letter dated 23rd October from their Customer Service Recovery Centre "apologising" that we are unhappy with the bank (slight understatement there I think! ) and their assurance that they will now "investigate the concerns raised" and expect their enquiries to be complete within the next 2 weeks. After this they will "respond in full" and "hope to resolve matters between us".

 

On another related note - we do have severe financial difficulties through no fault of our own (redundancy and ill health).

 

Despite getting help and in depth advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau as regards dealing with our creditors in the correct way, LLoyds TSB have totally IGNORED the last 2 financial statements prepared by the C.A.B.

 

They refused last June to accept our offer of £1 per month against outstanding credit card debts and loans with them, which is all we can afford, and have taken whatever they have felt like out of our accounts ever since, sending us more overdrawn in every case and thus adding more of their charges . This is despite other creditors accepting our offer of £1 per month without question.

 

Lloyds Bank obviously believe they are a law unto themselves and feel they can ignore the C.A.B.

 

We have had to borrow money off family because of this We have now been advised by the C.A.B. that Lloyds are in breach of the banking code because of their blatant disregard for the contents of an official financial statement, and we can make a further complaint about this too.

 

Our next step is to close accounts with them and open a basic bank account somewhere else.

 

If we do end up in Court having to reclaim the past 6 years charges, I shall have no hesitation in making the Court aware of the bank's behaviour as regards their decision to blatantly ignore the C.A.B. financial statements over the past 12 months!

 

So wish me luck guys - and I'll keep you posted as to the outcome.

 

A big thank you to all of you who have posted such useful information, and who have given us the confidence to pursue this claim.

 

Best wishes

Spiritgirl x

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi Spiritgirl, sounds like you have really had a hard time from Lloyds, time to give some grief back eh!! good for you, they deserve it.

Good luck with your claim, seems like you have everything under control:) They do like to stall, as do their solicitors, but perseverance will prevail!

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again everyone

 

We have now received two letters from the bank's Consumer Recovery Service, one referring to the personal account and one to the business account which we have with them. They did indeed reply in the time they said they would do which I suppose is a mini-miracle, and they are not standard letters but individually worded ones, personally signed by a "human" which is another mini-miracle!

 

Needless to say, in both letters they have argued that their charging system is fair, and have indicated at the end of their letter that “this is their final response”.

 

They have also enclosed leaflets relating to the Financial Ombudsman Service and suggested that if we are unhappy we may wish to take things up with them.

 

Having read the F.O.S. leaflet we are not sure whether this is the right option for us, perhaps it is the way the bank would “prefer” .....?

 

We note that the Ombudsman will also not get involved when matters are being dealt with by the court. The Ombudsman is so busy that they also state it can take up to 6 months for matters to be attended to. The leaflet says the Ombudsman will try to negotiate between the bank and ourselves, but that their decision is then final.

 

Am I right in thinking that threatening court would be a better option as not only is there the matter of Lloyds TSB’s outrageous charges, but the fact that they have blatently ignored the financial statements prepared for us by the Citizens Advice Bureau over the past 12-18 months whereas all other creditors we have have complied with them.

 

Am I also right in thinking we would be better threatening them with court because a significant part of the case would be that we do not/did not have the money to keep our accounts in credit since we were going through financial hardship and should have been paying them a token amount of £1 per month on debts, whereas they insisted on retrieving the full monthly amounts.???

 

Anyone have any experience with the Ombudsman? Are they sympathetic or do they tend to lean in favour of the banks?

 

Any advice would be appreciated as to what we do next. One thing is for certain we are not being fobbed off by their "decision is final" attitude

 

Thanks so much

 

Spiritgirl x

[BARTY]

Hi Spiritgirl

I wouldn't bother going to the FOS. If you have sent the Letter Before Action, the next step is the Court Claim, it is the only way that they will give you your money back I'm afraid.

Good luck!

Barty

[super_ted]

Hey, I wrote aletter to Lloyds a couple of months ago and got the same answer. We're sorry ur not happy and will look into it. They got back to me and basically said it was my fault so i said i'll sort it out myself and then close the account.

 

This weekend without warning they have removed my 2000 pound overdraft limit so i am now 2000 overdrawn! They say they are going to charge me an EAR of 29.85%.

 

I was told about this site and have sent a 40day notice letter regarding my charges. They will now pay for what they have done to me!

[spiritgirl59]

Hi there Barty

 

Thanks for replying.

 

I just got unsure vibes about the F.O.S.; especially as the bank are advising we should go that way next ... I feel we have a strong case and we are going to go for it down the legal route.

 

I'll keep you all posted.

 

Well done to you for winning Barty! :grin:

 

Spiritgirl x

[spiritgirl59]

Hi friends

 

Letter Before Action sent off recorded delivery today asking for all charges to be refunded AND, as the Citizens Advice Bureau have confirmed to us Lloyds are most definitely in breach of the banking code, I have added an additional paragraph reminding the bank of this, and pointing out that since they have blatently ignored the Financial Statements prepared on our behalf by the Citizens Advice Bureau and thus caused us untold misery and stress by making demands for money we do not have and adding more charges when we cannot pay it - I will be claiming for compensation in court in this regard also should they not respond positively within 14 days.

 

I've sent them FURTHER copies of the Financial Statements so we'll see what happens now!

 

And so, they can either do what I ask or I will see them in Court - and as we are in receipt of full Working Families Tax Credit I understand I will be exempt from the Court fees too.

 

Personally I feel the breach of banking code bit might hold more sway than the refund of fees. I have all the evidence in writing that all other creditors have accepted payment of what we can afford and have adhered to the Financial Statements...so why do Lloyds TSB think they are a law unto themselves??

 

I'll post back when I hear anything.

 

Spiritgirl

[steve_n]

Hi Spiritgirl !

 

Good luck with your quest

 

Steve n x

[spiritgirl59]

Hi friends

 

I've not heard a word from the bank since my LBA - but they do officially have till 26th November if they are classing the 14 days as all "working days" (which they probably are so I shall give them till Monday morning).

 

Have now prepared all the Court papers (phew !! :o ). It was a mammoth task and I was all worked up inside doing it, worried that I might make a town halls of them, but have checked and double checked all your advice on the forums (thank you guys you are the best!) and feel pretty confident now that I have done everything I need to.

 

We will have to file manually as I've checked and we are definitely eligible for exemption of fees, so have filled in the form EX160 to take with me.

 

Have got everything together, and found out where my local county court is (as they have now moved) so unless we hear back from the bank with an offer in full before Monday... and I won't hold my breath I shall be off to file the papers!

 

Anyone out there who is feeling nervous and that it all looks very daunting, I know exactly how you feel but I do have a little tip - make a list of what forms you need, and do them one at a time, nice and slowly, keep checking and re-checking back on here to make sure you did it all and included everything.

 

Will report back in as soon as I have more news!

 

Spiritgirl x;)

[steve_n]

Just to recap on some earlier finding, days are counted as claendar days NOT working - that makes it shorter

 

Don't give them any leeway - remember they haven't done so for you !!

 

Steve

[spiritgirl59]

Just to recap on some earlier finding, days are counted as claendar days NOT working - that makes it shorter

 

Don't give them any leeway - remember they haven't done so for you !!

 

Steve

 

Hi again,

 

Our claim was filed with our local county court on 27th November and Lloyds now have until 13th December to respond in any way, otherwise we can ask for judgement to be filed against them. I don't think it will be that straightforward somehow!

 

Thanks for your advice Steve, but due to a family bereavement it was 27th before I could get to court, but I did appreciate what you said and had intended to file earlier.

 

There were no fees to pay which was definitely a bonus (due to me getting the disability element of working families tax credit) and the court clerk advised us what to expect next. The copy filed claim arrived in the post a few days ago so I am now waiting to see what Lloyds decide to do.

 

I'll be back with a follow up when there is any reaction from Lloyds or their lawyers.

 

 

Spiritgirl x;)

[steve_n]

Hi Spiritgirl,

 

Very sorry to hear about your sad loss !!

 

The norm is that they will dragg it out for as long as they possibly can in the hope you give up - which you won't of course - because you have all your friends in here to support you and offer guidance !!

 

Steve

[freebird]

Hya Spirit girl,

I'm sorry about your sad loss and also the run around you've been getting too, you can do with out it eh.

Have a look at my thread in Lloyds....

I took to faxing them over the last couple of months of my claim and followed it up with phone calls.

I'm sure it will come through for you but they're bugiz for dragging their feet.

good luck hun x

[BelleVix]

Hi Spiritgirl,

 

Just wanted to say sorry about your loss, and good luck . My court forms are going in on Monday, so I'll follow your thread with interest!

 

Belle x

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again guys

 

well well well....today was "D" day for Lloyds response otherwise I could have asked for judgment, and lo and behold we received a letter from the Court in the lunch time post saying that Lloyds had filed their Acknowledgement of Service on 11th December 2006 !!! Talk about cutting it fine eh?

 

They intend to defend all the claim, bless their little cotton sox . Apparently they have 28 days now from service of the POC in which to file their Defence so I assume I now sit back and wait with interest for further communication from their solicitors as to how on earth they think they can defend this valid claim???

 

I'll have a good read of all your threads later x We are trying to sort everything out following my father's death and I'm still feeling a bit fragile, so thanks for your messages of support which I appreciate so much guys.

 

Spiritgirl

[steve_n]

Yep, put the kettle on and sit back for 28 calendar days

 

One thought, it's not a bad idea to send a copy of your schedule of charges to the court (if you filed online) and once you know officially who the solicitors are acting on behalf of the bank, send a copy to them as well . . it may just speed things a little as it scuppers their delay by asking you for it at the last minute

 

Best of luck

[spiritgirl59]

Hiya again Steve

 

I filed in person at my local County Court so all schedule of charges and other relevant papers to the claim were handed over with the POC. Stamped copies were then returned to me to keep.

 

The way I understood it I could not file my claim on line as I am exempt from Court fees, so went there in person with proof of my benefits and a completed EX160 (Application for fee exemption or remission form) which I downloaded off line, completed, then took with me in person to hand to the Clerk. He checked it and affirmed that I was definitely exempt from any Court fees.

 

The Clerk was very helpful however he did warn me that Lloyds are one of the worst for leaving things till the very last minute - which they have proved today!

 

As I do now have the address of the Solicitors acting for Lloyds I think that's a great idea to send them a further copy of the schedule. On the Acknowledgement of Service received today it gives the name and address of the Solicitors who are acting and who are making themselves available for "service of documents"...so yes, I will introduce myself to them by letter with a further copy of the full schedule of charges!!! Thanks for the tip!!

 

Hubby is a bit nervous but I say "bring it on" !! Its not costing me anything but it will be costing Lloyds as we speak, and the further they go, the more its going to cost, and I would love my day in Court to show them up for the heartless robbers they really are !

 

Spiritgirl

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again guys

 

Have today received a letter from Lloyds solicitors stating that as part 2 of the POC concerns a joint account we both need to be named as claimants. At the moment only one of us is named on the POC. The POC is in my husband's name as he was also claiming refund of charges against his own account, as well as our joint account.

 

What do we do now? They've NOT said what they expect us to do or given us any advice, just that there should be another claimant named.

 

Since the bank allow ONE person to sign cheques for a joint account, no matter which one, why do they suddenly need BOTH our names as Claimants??? Is this delaying tactics or have I made a mistake in the POC?

 

Do we need to prepare a full new set of papers? Or is there a way round this (I hope so)? Has anyone else had this happen to them? Can I do a signed form of authority and send it to the solicitors to add both our names to the papers?

 

I could kick myself now as I thought I'd done the right thing because of the bank's own rules for users of a joint account (i.e., that both accountholders have the same responsibility/authority as each other)

 

Thanks for your help

Spiritgirl X

[GaryH]

I'm not sure whether what they told you is correct or not - give the court a ring to check. If it is they'll be able to advise what you should do.

[spiritgirl59]

Thanks for such a fast reply Gary xx

 

I'll check with the Court tomorrow and post back on here to let you all know the outcome in case anyone else comes up against the same thing.

 

Spiritgirl x;)

[Michael Browne]

I suggest you refer Lloyds to Civil Procedure Rule 19.6:

 

Representative parties with same interest

19.6

(1)Where more than one person has the same interest in a claim –

(a)the claim may be begun; or

(b)the court may order that the claim be continued,

 

by or against one or more of the persons who have the same interest as representatives of any other persons who have that interest.

[GaryH]

Tut, tut - naughty Lloyds, telling porkies again are we?! That really is going to get someone into trouble one of these days....

 

Good work MB!

[spiritgirl59]

Michael

 

Thank you so much for this !!

 

I really appreciate how quickly you guys give advice and how supportive you all are.

 

I'll keep you posted and let you know what little gem they come up with next, cos I bet they will!

 

Thanks again

Spiritgirl x (and hubby who also says a big thank you)

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again friends

 

We have today received two interesting documents. Have a read of this and see what you think….

 

We've received a letter from Lloyds Recovery Centre dated 21st December advising that they believe their charges are “fair”, with a paragraph which states “generally we don’t agree to adjust any of these charges but I can tell you on this occasion we are prepared to reduce the charges by repaying you £750. You may have read that we and other banks are discussing overdraft charges with the Office of Fair Trading. Meanwhile we do consider each customer’s position individually, and we are making this offer as a gesture of goodwill because we might face that cost in dealing with your complaint if you took it further. I need to let you know that this does not mean we consider to have any legal obligation to do so. The sum will be credited to you in the next few days” They then go on to advise us to contact the Financial Ombudsman if we are still unhappy!

 

In the same post we've received a copy of the Defence from their Solicitors, ALSO dated 21st December, totally denying the WHOLE claim , arguing that there is no breach of contract, denying that the charges are “punitive” or that they unduly enrich the bank etc., etc., , averring that the charges are fair and reasonable and denying they are unlawful.

 

They also deny the contentions made in the second part of the claim (relating to the advice we received from the Citizens Advice Bureau which they have ignored), saying the Banking Code imposes no such obligations upon the bank as we allege (although the CAB have insisted that they ARE in breach of the Banking Code).

 

So they obviously intend to defend the whole claim.

 

Therefore why are they crediting us £750 as a “gesture of goodwill” if their Solicitors are denying the whole claim and they are so adamant that their charges are justified ????:-? :-?

 

If we accept the £750, will it prejudice our claim?, or have they inadvertently helped our case with this offer???

 

The idea of “bribe to shut us up” springs to mind guys!!! What say you, and how would you approach this now? Of course, bearing in mind our total claim is approx £4,500 there is no way we are giving up for £750, but I just want to be sure it won't be detrimental to us if we accept the £750.

 

I can't wait to hear from you on this - we're still reading both documents over and over because we can hardly believe what they have done! Talk about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing!!!!!!!!

 

Spiritgirl x

[GaryH]

Theres a letter in the templates library for accepting part-settlements that sets out clearly that you only accept it on the clear understanding that you are pursueing the rest. Send that.

 

Defence seems standard. The 9 point one, yes?