spiritgirl59 -v- Lloyds Bank ** WON **

[Michael Browne]

This is the 4th or 5th one today that I've seen where Lloyds are making goodwill payment, always of £750, even where people have sent a letter of rejection. One phoned Lloyds to say he did'nt want it and was told the money would be paid into his a/c regardless of what he said or any letter rejecting the offer.

[spiritgirl59]

Gary & Michael, the Defence consists of 14 points not 9, but we had put in a second part to the POC if you recall, aside from the issue about the bank's charges, we had claimed that they are breaching the banking code by ignoring the advice from the CAB. They are strenuously denying this saying they are not breaching the banking code, which I guess is now a matter for a Judge to decide as the CAB are telling us Lloyds certainly ARE in breach of the banking code (especially since Lloyds themselves in their standard letters about charges tell customers to take advice from the CAB if they are struggling financially!!) . The bulk of the Defence after point 9 is disputing this part of our claim.

 

The first part of the Defence consists of all the usual baloney trying to justify their extortionate charges.

 

I'll have a look for the template letter re accepting part settlements. Am having trouble with the pc tonight, keep getting booted off

 

Spiritgirl x

[spiritgirl59]

....Must just add Gary that the 14 pointer Defence is not a "claim too vague" one. I've just been having a read of some of the other threads on this. There is nothing in their Defence of this nature, they are just arguing the point about being in breach of the banking code.

 

One thing, I hope its not a silly question - why haven't they sent us an AQ with the Defence? Am not sure where to go from here now and can feel myself beginning to panic again in case I miss anything.

 

Spiritgirl x

[GaryH]

Don't panic!

 

With regard to the AQ, give the court a ring. You should have been sent one.

 

I'm a little bit concerned that you've cited Lloyds breaches of the banking code in your statement of case. That is'nt really a matter for the courts. A breach of the banking code is not necessarily an 'unlawful' act - the banking code is just an industry code of good practice. The place to seek redress in this regard would be the Financial Ombudsman service, which has the power to award compensation if it see's fit. Have you added 'compensation' to your claim on top of the charges? Its unlikely you would get it if it did go to court, and if/when Lloyds offer to settle it'll almost certainly not include it.

 

If/when they do offer to settle the charges part of the claim, it would probably be advisable to accept it - so long as its the full amount in charges, interest and fee's - and the pursue the compensation by making a complaint to the FOS. They've certainly treated you disgracefully and I'm sure you have a very strong case. Also, complain to the FSA with regard to the breaches of the banking code - I believe that as the financial regulator they are responsable for upholding the standards of the code.

[spiritgirl59]

Thanks Gary

 

I've noted everything you've said in your post and appreciate your help and advice.

 

I will give the Court a ring after the Xmas break to find out where the AQ is, and will send off the letter regarding the bank's offer of £750 as a "gesture of goodwill" to make sure I have it in writing that this is ONLY accepted as part settlement and on the clear understanding that we will be pursuing the remainder of the claim in court.

 

Meantime to you and everyone here on CAG - have a wonderful Christmas and New Year.

 

I am sure I speak on behalf of all members when I say thanks again to all you mods and helpers for "being there" and giving all of us the courage to go forward with our claims. You make us feel less like the "little people with no voices" that the bank would like us to be, and you help us feel strong and that we are not alone. I'm sure my dad will be looking down on me now and saying "you go for it girl!!"

 

Spiritgirl

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again friends

 

I hope you all had a good Christmas.

 

The AQ arrived in yesterday's post from the Court. It was written across the top in big red letters "£100 FEE TO PAY" so, as we were exempt from fees when we filed our claim, I phoned them up this morning to find out what was going on. A very helpful Clerk told me that as we had been exempt in the first place, provided our circumstances have not changed between filing the claim and now (which they have not) then we will still be exempt HOWEVER we need to complete a further EX160 form and take it to Court when we file the AQ which we have until 8th January to do.

 

The Clerk said they have skeleton staff on right now dealing with priorities only, so best to wait till after 2nd January to file the AQ, which is fair enough (it will give me time to fill in yet another EX160!)

 

I thought I would stick this on here as I'm not sure how many of you know that you have to submit a further EX160 every time you file anything into Court

 

Maybe one of the Mods could do a little thread about this (if there's not one already and i've missed it of course, in which case I'm sorry I did miss it).

 

Lloyds "gesture of goodwill" of £750 has still not materialised but I will let you know if and when it does, and I have the letter prepared from the CAG templates library accepting it as part payment only etc., to send off if it does.

 

Letter gone off to MJ today as per Michael's advise earlier in the thread regarding MJ saying we BOTH need to be named as Claimants (when we have a joint account) as I have no intention of amending the POC just to suit them, and have quoted the relevant civil procedure paragraph at them (thanks again Michael!)

 

Have a good New Year everyone. I'll post back with progress once the AQ is filed etc. Your AQ completion notes in the templates library are brilliant by the way, thanks again.

 

Spiritgirl x ;-)

[Michael Browne]

You can request a Directions Order in section G. see here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html#post441555

[jo1006]

The very best of luck Spiritgirl. We watch your case closely and are at a similar stage.

Happy New Year...2007 should be so much better for us all xxx

Jo & Mick:D:D

[GaryH]

Hi Spiritgirl,

 

Not entirely relevant, but I've noticed your claim seems to be being dealt with by Martineau Johnson - is that right? I thought they were off the scene ages ago. Still, they're a bit more pleasant to deal with than SC&M from what I gather.

[nevos]

Hi Spiritgirl: If you want to cheer yourself up or find yourself with 3 or 4 hours spare the following case makes a good read:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb-8.html

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again friends

 

Yes, Martineau Johnson are dealing with our claim Gary. This morning we received from them a copy of their AQ which they have very kindly sent to us.

 

I could hardly believe the sorry state of it It was scrawled on by hand, in the scruffiest handwriting you have ever seen - with huge black ticks across the tiny little boxes and a very professionally worded comment of "dont know yet" (??) scrawled across the witness section and section E ...I am so glad I took the time to type mine up as it looks so professional!

 

They have, as we suspected, asked for a one month stay. I was speaking to the Clerk when we filed our own AQ this morning and she said that this is definitely normal procedure with Lloyds but in her experience not many of the claims had got as far as the Court doors yet, so fingers crossed

 

No more fees to pay today ! - LOL I took the wrong Working Families Credit form with me this morning but thankfully as they already had a copy of the one I took last time (the right one...durr!) they looked on our file and accepted it again as evidence of exemption. I did explain that we only ever get one document a year and that's each April, and the Clerk was happy to rely on the one dated April 2006 to April 2007. (I'd taken the April 2005 to 2006 one in by mistake!). You can never take me anywhere - I almost managed to set the Court alarms off by going the wrong way through security

 

Still, we've done all we can now and will just wait and see what they come up with, bearing in mind your valuable advice earlier in this thread Gary.

 

Oh we DID get the £750 gesture of goodwill which has drastically reduced our overdraft .... so in other words Lloyds are paying off Lloyds Well every little helps!!!

 

Jo & Mick, thanks for your words of encouragement, and Nevos, thanks for that link I will have a read.

 

Best wishes to you all.

 

Spiritgirl

[GaryH]

If they've asked for a months stay for settlement, you should contact them to see what their proposals are exactly. You can send them this -

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for providing me with a copy of your completed N149 Allocation Questionnaire, which I received on **/**/**.

Referring to the Allocation Questionnaire, I must admit to being somewhat surprised by your response to Section A (Settlement). You have ticked ‘yes’, thereby requesting a one month postponement in proceedings in order that a settlement may be reached by way of negotiation.

Please note that throughout the process of this claim, neither yourselves nor your client have ever given any indication whatsoever that you wish to settle this matter without the need for litigation. In fact, all my previous attempts at dialogue with your client have been met with outright refusals to negotiate this matter, and on **/**/** I received a letter from Lloyds TSB’s service recovery centre which explicitly stated that the bank had issued its final response and therefore would not enter into any further correspondence. It is for this reason that I felt I had no alternative but to seek redress by way of Court action.

Having said the above, I do believe that litigation should always be a last resort and would of course be happy to settle this matter without the need for a court hearing. Please be advised though, that I am completely confidant in the strength of my claim and believe that your clients charges could indeed be proved to be unlawful penalty’s which you are trying to cloak as contractual service charges. For this reason, I will only settle for the full amount of the claim, namely £***.

In light of your indication of your intention to negotiate settlement, I will await your communication informing me of how you wish to proceed. I trust this will come before **/**/**, as this would be the final day of the month you requested to reach a settlement in your allocation questionnaire.

A copy of this letter will also be sent to the court.

Yours faithfully

Send a copy to the court, too.

[spiritgirl59]

Gary you are an absolute star! Thank you so much for this x

 

I've done the letter to MJ , and a copy to the Court with a covering letter asking for the correspondence to please be placed on our file for the kind attention of the Judge who will be proposing directions in this matter.

 

LOL do you think whoever scrawled their AQ in haste has ticked the wrong box?? :-? I looked at the signature and it looks like "Clerk for Martineau Johnson" but its so messy its hard to read!

 

I used to work in law (criminal law legal secretary) before I had to give up due to ill health and I know only too well what can happen if a form is given to a Clerk who ticks it all in a rush...and looking at the state of this one I wonder if it was done in a rush, its so careless! Considering the amount they must be dealing with at the moment its not surprising - but to our advantage, right?

 

BTW, as regards our financial troubles and the CAB; we did have dealings last year with Solicitors SCM with one of our debts - Goldfish, who I believe are part of Lloyds. SCM acknowledged what the CAB proposed as repayment, then passed our case to a debt collection agency, who then accepted the £1 per month token offer which we have paid ever since...so I wonder if we have been nominated MJ because of some sort of conflict of interest ?????

 

Amazing that Goldfish/SCM can accept the £1 offer from the CAB but Lloyds themselves will not - when we owed Goldfish much more!!! Oh well, I'll not get on my soapbox again...it all makes for an exciting and interesting life.

 

I'll be back when we hear from MJ or there are any more developments.

 

Thanks again x

Spiritgirl

[spiritgirl59]

Good morning my friends

 

We have received four letters this morning from MJ regarding a proposed settlement – ON THEIR TERMS - which I have typed out for you to see below. Sorry there’s so much typing but I thought it best to show you the whole sorry lot.

 

Just want to get on my soapbox for a minute because I am now in a seriously bad mood ….

 

I think MJ have got a bloody cheek with all this “Without Prejudice Confidential and Privileged” – can’t show it to the Court - baloney and can tickle off with their strict “terms and conditions of acceptance”. Who are THEY to tell US terms when we are doing the suing?, and in our POC I asked for a cheque made out to the Claimant for the full sum on Gary’s advice – so where do they get off thinking they can put it into the accounts, with CONDITIONS of acceptance?

 

Secondly they are offering a drastically reduced amount of money compared to what we are claiming (£2,157.04 for hubby’s business account and £2,442.52 on our joint account).

 

Hubby is panicking a bit and thinks he should settle on his sole trader business account as, in their defence, they were denying they owed him anything as different terms apply to a personal account, but if you read the letters carefully they have made a c*ck-up in that in letter No. 4 they are referring to “business” terms when they are discussing our personal account!

 

I feel we should write and tell them to sod off with the lot, and they either pay up in full or we see them in Court. Hubby is not so sure on the business account side. Bearing in mind they asked for a “stay” of a month, and have written to us so early, do you think this is a good sign???

 

Please can someone have a read and advise us what to do next, and what template to use for a reply to MJ???

 

I'm not too brill with HTML codes but I will try to post the letters as quotes for you to make it easier to read.

 

Many thanks

Spiritgirl

 

(First letter dated 5th January 2007)

 

 

Dear Mr xxxx

 

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED

 

 

Business Account xxxx

 

As you will be aware from our open letter, we act for Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank). This letter is marked Without Prejudice and is Confidential and Privileged with means it will not be produced in Court and is confidential between you, us and the Bank.

 

In our open letter we have set out details of the Bank’s defence and would inform you that the Bank does not accept that there is any legal merit in your argument. The charges claimed by you have been imposed in accordance with the terms that you agreed with the Bank.

 

Although your claim has no legal foundation, regrettably the Bank has to take into account the costs of litigating over relatively small sums.

 

The Bank is therefore willing to settle your claim on the following basis:-

 

1. The amount of £981.61 will be credited to the business account. This sum represents the actual amount charges in the period in question, being £785.00, together with £183.61 interest.

 

2. Payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim.

 

 

3. Payment will be by refund to your account.

 

 

4. These terms and any correspondence entered into in reaching settlement, of which this letter is one, will remain confidential between you, us and the Bank.

 

 

 

Please let us know whether you are prepared to settle the matter on these terms. If so, and you comply with the conditions set out, the Bank will arrange to credit the amount of £968.61 to your account.

 

If you are willing to settle, please sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are both bound by its terms, including the requirement of confidentiality, and return it to us.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Martineau Johnson

 

I confirm that the above terms are agreed and will remain confidential.

 

Signed by Mr xxxx ……………………..

Dated:

 

 

 

(Second letter dated 5th January 2007 regarding personal account)

 

 

 

 

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED

 

 

Dear Mr xxxx

 

Personal Account xxxxxx

 

 

 

As you will be aware from our open letter, we act for Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank). This letter is marked Without Prejudice and is Confidential and Privileged with means it will not be produced in Court and is confidential between you, us and the Bank.

 

In our open letter we have set out details of the Bank’s defence and would inform you that the Bank does not accept that there is any legal merit in your argument. The charges claimed by you have been imposed in accordance with the terms that you agreed with the Bank.

 

Although your claim has no legal foundation, regrettably the Bank has to take into account the costs of litigating over relatively small sums.

 

The Bank is therefore willing to settle your claim on the following basis:-

 

1. The amount of £1,292.21 will be credited to your joint personal account. As stated in our letter dated 18th December 2006, the charges you are claiming were levied against joint account held with your wife, therefore any payment must be made to you both. The above figure represents the actual amount charge during the period in question, being £1087.00, together with £205.21 interest.

 

2. Payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim.

 

3. Payment will be by refund to your account.

 

4. These terms and any correspondence entered into in reaching settlement, of which this letter is one, will remain confidential between you, us and the Bank.

 

Please let us know whether you are prepared to settle the matter on these terms. If so, and you comply with the conditions set out, the Bank will arrange to credit the amount of £1,292.21 to your account.

 

If you are willing to settle, please sign a copy of this letter as confirmation that you are both bound by its terms, including the requirement of confidentiality, and return it to us.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Martineau Johnson

 

I confirm that the above terms are agreed and will remain confidential.

 

 

Signed by Mr xxxx ………………………….

 

Dated: ………………………….

 

 

Signed by Mrs xxxx ………………………….

 

Dated: ………………………….

 

 

(Third letter dated 5th January)

 

Dear Sir

 

We act for Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank).

 

We have been passed a copy of the proceedings that you have issued against our client in respect of charges levied on your business and current account. The bank will be defending these proceedings on the following grounds:

 

• the fees that you are seeking to recoup are properly incorporated into your contract with the Bank. When opening your account, you were provided with a brochure which gives details of the Bank’s charges. By using your account, you accept those charges; and

• in the brochure, the charges that will be imposed by unauthorised borrowing are explained. When you make a payment (whether by cheque, debit card or any other means) from your account when you have insufficient funds to cover it, you are making a request to the Bank for an increased overdraft. It is for the Bank to decide whether or not to accept this request. If it meets your request and the account goes overdrawn, or in excess of the agreed limit, an unauthorised borrowing fee is payable. Where the request is declined and the item is returned, you must pay the unpaid item charge. The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law where there has been a breach of contract. No breach of contract has occurred between you and the Bank; the Bank is providing a service within the terms agreed with you, for which there is a charge. The charges are not penalties and therefore need not be a pre-estimate of the Bank’s loss.

• The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1997, and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations only relate to those contracting as customers, and so do not apply to you as a business customer. The Bank has successfully struck out a claim against a business customer on this basis, s15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act only applies where there is an implied term as to the consideration; it is not relevant where, as in this case, there are specific terms concerning these charges, as set out in the Bank’s charging leaflet.

Yours faithfully

Martineau Johnson

 

(Fourth Letter of 5th January 2007)

 

Dear Sir

 

We act for Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank).

 

We have been passed a copy of the proceedings that you have issued against our client in respect of charges levied on your joint personal current account. The bank will be defending these proceedings on the following grounds:

 

• the fees that you are seeking to recoup are properly incorporated into your contract with the Bank. When opening your account, you were provided with a brochure which gives details of the Bank’s charges. By using your account, you accept those charges; and

• in the brochure, the charges that will be imposed by unauthorised borrowing are explained. When you make a payment (whether by cheque, debit card or any other means) from your account when you have insufficient funds to cover it, you are making a request to the Bank for an increased overdraft. It is for the Bank to decide whether or not to accept this request. If it meets your request and the account goes overdrawn, or in excess of the agreed limit, an unauthorised borrowing fee is payable. Where the request is declined and the item is returned, you must pay the unpaid item charge. The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law where there has been a breach of contract. No breach of contract has occurred between you and the Bank; the Bank is providing a service within the terms agreed with you, for which there is a charge. The charges are not penalties and therefore need not be a pre-estimate of the Bank’s loss.

• The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1997, and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations only relate to those contracting as customers, and so do not apply to you as a business customer. The Bank has successfully struck out a claim against a business customer on this basis, s15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act only applies where there is an implied term as to the consideration; it is not relevant where, as in this case, there are specific terms concerning these charges, as set out in the Bank’s charging leaflet.

Yours faithfully

Martineau Johnson

 

 

[GaryH]

A couple of things to note.

 

I remember you saying something about them vehemantly denying part of the claim. What charges were they? The reason I ask, is becouse if they are the standard, pre-agreed monthly account fee's, then they are NOT reclaimable. They are a genuine service charge.

 

The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1997, and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations only relate to those contracting as customers, and so do not apply to you as a business customer.

 

This is actually true. Consumer regulations can't be cited in business claims. You would be relying on the common law provisions instead. I don't think there is enough information on the site with regards to business claims, and in future this should probably be made clearer - lots of claimants have made the same mistake. It's certainly no grounds to get a strike out though (I would'nt have thought), as your claim still has a valid basis in common law.

 

So now after taking off any genuine pre-agreed account fee's, and taking off the compensation element, is that what they are offering? If it is, and it includes all the interest and court fee's, I think you'd be advised to accept that amount.

 

If not, how far short is it? Add up all the 'default', punitive type charges - ie. DD/SO returns, OD excess, etc - and tell them that is the amount you will accept and not a penny less.

 

As for conditions, thats up to you. They have no right to attempt to impose them and you have no obligation to accept them.

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again everyone

 

Following my post this morning, and Gary’s reply (thanks for that Garyx) I rechecked our Schedules of Charges and have to admit to making a rather large faux pas in that I have claimed back literally everything the bank have thrown at us for over the past 6 years, and I DID include all the standard pre-agreed monthly account fees! :oops:

 

Am I the first on CAG to do this?? I feel a right plonker! I am so glad you pointed this out to me Gary as it could have proved very embarrassing! Oh well, I shall call myself "Rodney" from now on LOL.

 

So, having checked the figures again, and taken off all the pre-agreed fees, MJ are spot on with their offer on the business account, and only £40 down on what we are asking on the joint personal account, if we include the £750 “gesture of goodwill” which we have already received from Lloyds.

 

 

What they have obviously done is gone through the schedules and taken out all the pre-agreed fees, then totalled it all up including interest, and as a result are offering us the right amount.

 

 

Gary you are right, we have asked for no compensation in this current claim, and nor are we eligible for any court fees back as we have not paid any as we are exempt, so what MJ are offering us at the moment is indeed correct.

 

And so, my next question is how do we settle without this “confidential and privileged” clause as I don't want it to prejudice our next claim with the FOS.

 

Earlier in the thread Gary said :

 

 

I'm a little bit concerned that you've cited Lloyds breaches of the banking code in your statement of case. That is'nt really a matter for the courts. A breach of the banking code is not necessarily an 'unlawful' act - the banking code is just an industry code of good practice. The place to seek redress in this regard would be the Financial Ombudsman service, which has the power to award compensation if it see's fit. Have you added 'compensation' to your claim on top of the charges? Its unlikely you would get it if it did go to court, and if/when Lloyds offer to settle it'll almost certainly not include it.

 

If/when they do offer to settle the charges part of the claim, it would probably be advisable to accept it - so long as its the full amount in charges, interest and fee's - and the pursue the compensation by making a complaint to the FOS. They've certainly treated you disgracefully and I'm sure you have a very strong case. Also, complain to the FSA with regard to the breaches of the banking code - I believe that as the financial regulator they are responsable for upholding the standards of the code.

 

 

 

I’ve drafted a letter here with I wonder if you think would be OK to send to MJ?, I’ll send one for the business account settlement and one for the current account settlement and lets hope they agree to it :-

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re Business Account xxxx / (Joint Current Account xxxx)

 

Thank you for your letter dated 5th January 2007.

 

Having considered the basis of the Bank’s offer of settlement, in reply to the points made by the Bank, these are my proposals :-

 

1. I am prepared to accept that the amount of insert amount be credited to my insert account.

 

2. I accept that payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim.

 

3. I accept that payment will be by refund to my insert account.

 

4. I do NOT accept whatsoever “these terms and any correspondence entered into in reaching settlement, of which this letter is one, will remain confidential between myself, yourselves and the Bank.”

 

Your client has no right to impose the condition at point 4 and I am under no obligation to accept such a condition.

 

I trust your Client is prepared to accept my amended proposals for settlement as set out above, in order to avoid the “costs of litigating over relatively small sums” as stated in your letter of 5th January 2007.

 

I now look forward to hearing from you further with your Client’s amended settlement terms.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I'll now exit stage left while its quiet....

 

Spiritgirl aka "Rodney"

[GaryH]

Alright Rodders!!!

 

No, believe me your certainly not the first to do that and I'm pretty sure you won't be the last either!

 

Thats a very good letter - excellent job.

[spiritgirl59]

Hi friends

 

Revised settlement letters received from MJ this morning for signature by us. :D

 

The following paragraphs have been removed:

 

“these terms and any correspondence entered into in reaching settlement, of which this letter is one, will remain confidential between myself, yourselves and the Bank.”

 

However the letters are still headed "Without Prejudice" and "Privileged".

 

They each state "This letter is marked Without Prejudice and Privileged which means it will not be produced in Court"

 

Gary, does this mean if we accept and sign these revised letters in settlement of the claims for charges, we CAN still show them to the FOS/OFT when we start our next stage, i.e., breach of banking code complaint re the Citizens Advice Bureau assistance???

 

Thanks

Spiritgirl ;-)

[GaryH]

Yes, the only place you could'nt show that letter would be court. You haven't accepted a confidentiality agreement, so other than that its not confidential. You can show or tell who you like, including the FOS.

[spiritgirl59]

Thanks Gary

 

We've now signed the settlement letters and they are going off tomorrow.

:D

A BIG BIG thank you to all of you on CAG who have helped us with this, and given me the courage to tackle all the paperwork etc.

 

I know you said that you don't accept donations from people who are on Benefits but hubby and I do so much want to make one because without sites like yours, we would never ever have got this far - so please can you let me know how I go about doing it, and when we receive settlement I will sort that out

 

I'll come back on when settlement is completed to confirm we got it

It'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to refund the monies now!

 

THANK YOU so much xxx I can't believe its done and dusted so quickly to be honest...so next its on to stage 2 and the FOS!!!

 

Spiritgirl x

[spiritgirl59]

Hi guys

 

I really need some advice please. We've received two letters. I've quoted the contents below.

 

 

Letter from MJ dated 19th January 2007.

 

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

PRIVILEGED

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for signing and returning our letters of 9th January 2007. We are pleased that you are willing to settle your claim on the terms set out in the letter.

 

The refund of the amount of your business account claim has now been authorised by a central department within the bank. Please allow at least 7 working days for the refund to reach your account. However the refund into your personal account, whilst also authorised, will not be for the full amount stated within the settlement letter. This is due to the fact that it has come to our attention that £750.00 was credited to your account on 29th December 2006 by the Bank’s Concerns Department.

 

This credit was in respect of £750.00 of unauthorised borrowing fees. You should therefore have amended your claim by this figure as the Bank will obviously not be prepared to refund the same charges twice. We trust this clarifies why the credit to your personal account shall now be in the sum of £542.21.

 

Please can you now write to the Court, as Claimant in this matter, to confirm that the case has been settled and there is no longer any need for proceedings to continue. Please can you also send us a copy of your letter to the Court for our file.

 

Yours faithfully

MJ

 

Please could you advise re MJ whether they have got the right to deduct the £750 which was a "gesture of goodwill" by the Bank, separate to our claim, and as we understood it NOT therefore part of the full settlement (bearing in mind we wrote to the bank when they offered that gesture of goodwill and said we were still suing for the full amount owed and were treating their gesture of goodwill as such, a gesture only!) How shall we deal with this?

 

Letter from Bank branch dated 18th January 2007.

 

Dear Mr……..

 

Following a review of your account, I am writing to advise you that Lloyds TSB bank PLC is unable to continue to offer banking facilities to you. In accordance with Business Banking Code guidelines, I am hereby giving you 30 days notice of closure of your account.

 

Closure of your account will take effect from 18th February 2007 in order to provide you with the opportunity to arrange alternative banking services.

 

Please arrange for the outstanding sums to be repaid by the due date and kindly return any cheque books and debit cards in your possession.

 

Yours sincerely

 

I don't know how on earth they expect us to pay "the outstanding sums" by this date when we don't have the funds to do it. What is due to be paid back into the business account by way of refund of unlawful charges will not clear all "outstanding funds" they talk about (being monthly repayments on the business loan). This is getting very complicated now and I'm beginning to feel a bit sick.

 

Maybe they have done us a favour, because I did think if they close this business account, they will not be able to keep demanding the full repayment of the business loan, or could they try to take those payments from hubby's personal account? . Is there any provision in banking which says they cannot take money for a business loan from a personal account do you know?

 

I phoned up the bank on receipt of this letter and asked to speak to the Business Manager who sent it. They have made me a "telephone appointment" for next week. Any advice on what I can say to her? This is so disgusting as hubby STILL hasn't had any sick pay so we cannot make any payments into the account.

 

Please help

 

Spiritgirl x

[GaryH]

Please could you advise re MJ whether they have got the right to deduct the £750 which was a "gesture of goodwill" by the Bank, separate to our claim, and as we understood it NOT therefore part of the full settlement (bearing in mind we wrote to the bank when they offered that gesture of goodwill and said we were still suing for the full amount owed and were treating their gesture of goodwill as such, a gesture only!) How shall we deal with this?

TBH, I think they're right - you can't expect to be refunded the same charges twice. Presumably they offered the payment in respect of a refund of the charges you were claiming, and you accepted it as part-settlement of the claim, so its right that it comes off the total. If they've paid back every single charge they took plus the interest then you have no grounds for continueing the claim. I don't think the judge would be best pleased if you pursued the claim to court on that basis alone.

 

Regards to the next letter, again, I'm afraid they aren't doing anything against the rules. Now you're claim has been settled the account is no longer in dispute, and they are giving you 30 days notice, both of which means that they are acting in accordance with the terms of the banking code. Scumbags. Nice to see they comply with it when it suits them.

 

Try not to worry too much about it. There are things you can do. Theres a post by Bookworm somewhere which gives some great advice about how to deal with them chasing you for the outstanding balance - I'll try to find it for you.

or could they try to take those payments from hubby's personal account?

Not sure on this, I'll try to find out for you.

 

HTH

[spiritgirl59]

Thanks Gary x

 

Yes you are right, we did accept the £750 in part settlement of the claim when Lloyds sent that letter as a gesture of goodwill.

 

They will have paid back all charges and interest which they should have done if we accept things as they stand now.

 

As you said with regards to letter 2, it really naffs us off that they will quote the banking code guidelines at us when it suits them

 

I'll have a search for Bookworm's post too but if you do find any info please can you let us know? Also about whether they can start to take money from the personal account for the business loan? I wonder if their next step will be to tell us they are closing the joint personal account :idea: which will be interesting as that is still overdrawn too.

 

It just winds me up so much because I honestly think they expect you to go to the money tree at the bottom of the garden and pull some notes off to clear these overdrafts How on earth do they think we are managing to live??? My benefits are keeping us in food etc., how can they ask me to put some into the bank - they are not in the real world are they?? Trouble is all this doesn't help me feel better, and my anxiety and depression are just getting worse.

 

Spiritgirl x

[spiritgirl59]

Good morning all

 

Well Lloyds have settled now, but I can't feel any joy at this right now as incredibly they have used ALL of the money which has gone back into the business account to take out four months' business loan repayments IN ADVANCE

 

The day before the money went in, they took the account nearly £968 overdrawn to take these repayments, and when the money went in the following morning, the settlement covered it all but £12 or so, so hubby is now left £12.00 overdrawn, with them taking four months for the loan payment in advance, and wanting the account to be closed within 30 days.

 

Are we able to claim back the PPI on these repayments, since they have all been taken in advance of when they were due? Once this account IS closed, will they then be able to start taking the loan repayments from hubby's personal account?

 

Should they be able to take out payments in advance in any case???

 

I am pretty sure the reason for this is that they know once the account is closed they will have problems getting any repayments for the loan as we just don't have the money, but all the same its a pretty lousy trick don't you think?

 

The banking manager is supposed to be phoning up around lunch time, any advice would be appreciated before then if possible?

 

The joint account settlement has not even cleared the overdraft on that account, although it has gone to helping lower it.

 

I feel very depressed at the moment

 

Spiritgirl x

[spiritgirl59]

Hi again everyone

 

Well I have now spoken to the business banking manager. She told me that their legal department instructed her to close the business account as their "working relationship" with us has "irretrievably broken down" following our successful claim for the unlawful bank charges! She said it is their "policy" to close business accounts when customers make a claim this way. I asked her if in straight talking the bank was then being vindictive because customers have asserted their rights about the unlawful charging, and she didn't give me a straight answer, just repeated that this is the policy of their legal department - so in other words I read that as a yes

 

Once the business account is closed within 30 days, she said if we are unable to pay off the outstanding business loan in full, they will refer it to a DCA and we can negotiate with them.

 

She said they had taken an extra four months loan repayments because "historically" the loan account is in arrears by this amount.

 

She said we should soon hear from the personal banking side who will also be closing our accounts for the same reasons.

 

I guess I am relieved that there is now some sort of closure to all this fiasco. The next step is the FOS and I will start a new thread on this.

 

Meantime, thank you guys for all your valued help. I'm sorry I'm unable to make a donation to the site at the moment but the refund of charges has all been swallowed up. I will make a donation as soon as we are able to.

 

Please could a Moderator move this thread to successes for me?

 

Spiritgirl x