Me & NRAM/Northern Rock Together mortgage

[SJC1975]

Hi,

 

We are also stuck with an NRAM Together Mortgage, we took our mortgage out in 2006 when we sold our 1 bedroom home to move to a 3 bedroom home, thinking we was building ourselves a good future, unfortunately we now regret committing to this mortgage as we are now struggling to move home.

 

After several calls to NRAM we enquired about options to help us move or reduce what we owe, in March this year our balance on our mortgage est 110k and unsecured loan at 28k and our house value is 125-129k and the house we want to downsize to in order to free some debt is 100k, but we still have got to find obviously all the solicitors fees and find est of 2.5k shortfall to give to NRAM to move and at the end of it we would still have a mortgage and unsecured loan.

 

Our circumstances have changed some what as since moving we have used the luxury of credit cards!! big mistake, we have littleone and we both work full time and have nursery costs of between 850 - 1k a month I recently went to our local CAB for advice they were not very helpful because we had not defaulted or was not in arrears on anything they couldn't see what the problem was?!

 

Sadly we are financially struggling along with many others, but we are trying to seek support and help and nobody seems to be able to help, we went to a financial advisor about remortgaging and they said we owed to much to remortgage and NRAM just said go to the CAB..

 

We accept we have created our own credit card debts and we are working to repay these, our mortgage is full repayment but everyone where we go to for advice seems oblivious to who NRAM are and why we have the mortgage we have? There must be other home owners who have the Together mortgage we cant be the only ones..!

 

Would very much like to hear from any homeowners who do have the same mortgage and any who have remortgaged or moved sucessfully?

 

Many thanks

[Smarter_now]

CitzenB, for yours (and anyone else's) edification a Northern Rock Together Mortgage was comprised of 2 components:

• A secured mortgage up to 95% LTV, repayable on repayment or interest only terms, with a term up to 30 years (at least, I think it couldn't go beyond your 75th birthday);
  
• An unsecured loan up to 30% LTV, capped at a maximum of £30,000, repayable on repayment terms, co-terminus with the mortgage component, and at the same interest rate.
  

The specific problem being addressed here is that they used the same paperwork for all Together mortgages, showing the unsecured component as being regulated by CCA1974. This was so even for those borrowing in excess of £25,000, even though at the time the upper limit for CCA regulated loans was £25,000, which was not removed until April 2008, a date either after or near the end of the life of the product being offered.

 

It seems there are quite a lot of people in this position of having "unregulated" loans written on "regulated" paperwork, and NRAM (as they are now) have declined to offer us the same redress for their failue to comply with the statement requirements of the CCA2006 amendments as they have given to those with loans under the threshold.

 

Another problem that these Together mortages have is that if you de-couple the components (because of re-mortgaging for instance), the interest rate on the unsecured component jumps to 5% or 8% above SVR, thus dramatically increasing the repayments.

 

Also there are instances where, in the past, Northern Rock or NRAM have used the provisions of the CCA to take people in financial difficulties to court for non-payment of the unsecured component, including obtaining Charging Orders, despite the fact they are now saying they are not CCA regulated. This is why the OP is trying to contact the 2 people mentioned.

 

Finally in a post on 6th December 2008 pt2537 stated "the Northern Rock Together scheme is flawed, the agreement is not bolted together properly and as a result it is defective and irredeemably unenforceable". How I wish he was still around to elaborate further on that statement!

 

I'm in this position. Together Mortgage, £30k unsecured, pre-contract and offer state covered by CCA 1974, northern rock obtained a Charging order on us by taking court action under CCA, neglected to tell us about the court action until it had been carried out. The judge ruled in NR's favour in our absence. Took months to get it sorted. What was our arrears to be taken to court? 3 weeks, the rest was admin errors at NR. When we finally got back into court to rectify it the judge admonished NR and made them pay costs for their mess.

 

In light of this new info tho, it throws up serious concerns. Either my loans is regulated under CCA in which case I'm due redress for their failings under the CCA or my loan isn't covered by the CCA and the court action was illegal and my contract is unenforcable. I've gone down the route of misrepresentation of contract, unfair relationships and TCF outcome breaches but I'm sure thee are more legal breaches therein.

 

The thing is, if they come back and say ok, they agree my account is CCA regulated due to them not wanting to concede to the court balls up, it sets a precedent that they'd need to offer all other customers the same courtesy. If it's not covered and they took me to court under their protections of an act they're now saying I'm not protected by, how can they possibly enforce the agreement?

 

I've submitted a huge complaint letter, will now just need to sit back and wait. Would love any assistance or advice with this possible.

[citizenB]

Right, I think I understand what the issues are and will see if I can either find some information or someone who might be able to help.

 

I am assuming you have looked at MCOBs to see if there is anything in there that will help ?

[IainHL]

Hello there Smater_now, it's very interesting to hear your story.

 

I do wonder though how did NR manage to get all the way through court action to obtaining a CO without you knowing? Surely the court would have served papers to your address?

 

I will be very interested in seeing what their response is to your complaint.

Edited August 19, 2013 by IainHL
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[jhill]

I'm in this position. Together Mortgage, £30k unsecured, pre-contract and offer state covered by CCA 1974, northern rock obtained a Charging order on us by taking court action under CCA, neglected to tell us about the court action until it had been carried out. The judge ruled in NR's favour in our absence. Took months to get it sorted. What was our arrears to be taken to court? 3 weeks, the rest was admin errors at NR. When we finally got back into court to rectify it the judge admonished NR and made them pay costs for their mess.

 

In light of this new info tho, it throws up serious concerns. Either my loans is regulated under CCA in which case I'm due redress for their failings under the CCA or my loan isn't covered by the CCA and the court action was illegal and my contract is unenforcable. I've gone down the route of misrepresentation of contract, unfair relationships and TCF outcome breaches but I'm sure thee are more legal breaches therein.

 

The thing is, if they come back and say ok, they agree my account is CCA regulated due to them not wanting to concede to the court balls up, it sets a precedent that they'd need to offer all other customers the same courtesy. If it's not covered and they took me to court under their protections of an act they're now saying I'm not protected by, how can they possibly enforce the agreement?

 

I've submitted a huge complaint letter, will now just need to sit back and wait. Would love any assistance or advice with this possible.

 

Hi, are you happy to post the details of the court and judgement on here or perhaps send a PM to CitizenB?

 

Your info will strengthen the case of others tied up with the FOS; showing NRAM use the CCA to their benefit with loans over 25k but then deny customers CCA protection in the same boat.

[Smarter_now]

(this was in response to the question regarding having court papers served etc. I haven' t worked out how to quote yet...)

 

I actually don't undertand myself how it got to the point of court without us knowing. But the judge did revoke everything to the pre-charging order status and made them pay us costs for our time having to deal with this error.

 

I was a bit green and niave re finances when this all happened and with hindsight there were clearly a comedy of errors at best at NR which led to it progressing as far as it did. I now work in financial services and only now can appreciate just how serious the issues are and have finally got a fire under me to take NR to task.

 

I got a response back from the CE office within 30 mins of sending the email complaint. I spoke to a compliance contact who said something in the complaint has rattled them.

 

 

[Smarter_now]

Hi, are you happy to post the details of the court and judgement on here or perhaps send a PM to CitizenB?

 

Your info will strengthen the case of others tied up with the FOS; showing NRAM use the CCA to their benefit with loans over 25k but then deny customers CCA protection in the same boat.

 

Yeah I thought that our case may be kinda pivotal to the group action. I'll be interested to see what they come back with. If we are being provided CCA regulation status then everyone else needs to be afforded that protection and we must all be given redress for the regulatory and statement failings that the under £25k customers are. If not, then they must be held to task for taking us to court under CCA and for having so many people signing misrepresented contracts.

 

I can't remember dates etc of the court action etc but I've been in contact again to ask they provide all the correspondence and court papers so as soon as I receive this I'll contact the action group and the member you mention. Feel free to PM me for any details I can help with in the meantime. I am considering looking for a lawyer as I feel a bit over my head, despite my industry contacts.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Smarter_now

[jhill]

Yeah I thought that our case may be kinda pivotal to the group action. I'll be interested to see what they come back with. If we are being provided CCA regulation status then everyone else needs to be afforded that protection and we must all be given redress for the regulatory and statement failings that the under £25k customers are. If not, then they must be held to task for taking us to court under CCA and for having so many people signing misrepresented contracts.

 

I can't remember dates etc of the court action etc but I've been in contact again to ask they provide all the correspondence and court papers so as soon as I receive this I'll contact the action group and the member you mention. Feel free to PM me for any details I can help with in the meantime. I am considering looking for a lawyer as I feel a bit over my head, despite my industry contacts.

 

Hi Smarter_now, thanks! I dont have enoug credits yet to PM you although Citizen B is being a massive help hear. Yes! Your case will help for exactly the reasons you mention. My case is with the FOS and so as soon as you get this it will be a help to us and I hope many others. There seem to be many others in similar situations to yourself where they have loans over £25k but where NRAM have still appleid the CCA to prosecute them.

[citizenB]

Please feel free to contact me with regards to document posting etc. If I am not around, then just send a message to any of the Site team, they will do their best help as well.

[Smarter_now]

I've tried to PM the few people who've messaged me on here but it's not allowing me to.

 

I'm awaiting a full and final response from NRAM, which is allegedly sitting with their solicitors just now and will be with me in a few days.

 

Will keep you up to date. If anyone wants more info, pm me your email address and I'll get in touch that way.

[dx100uk]

we do not recommend advise via PM or pers emails.

 

dx

[jhill]

Hi Smarter Now, Any news on this? I've recently started a new job and so haven't been as active on this as I would have liked.

[Smarter_now]

Nram have given a partial response to the more minor issues presented in the complaint but requested more time to give a full and final response to the CCA / redress / illegal charging order complaints. However, upon chasing last week, I was advised they would have a F&F response by mid February.

 

I held off going to FOS when their 8 weeks was up as I was promised over and over that it would be a few more weeks - it's now been 6 months!

 

How is everyone else getting on?