Dutch Debt, Living in UK , making payments to Bluestone Recoveries US via UK is it legal?

[simo67]

Have read through many useful pieces of information on this site in the past few days,

but when reading all the consumer credit acts and license acts

I am not sure whether what is going on with my particular set of circumstances is actually legal

or have this company breached any acts and license laws in UK.

 

Summary:

Have Dutch debt initially an overdraft transferred into a flexi credit loan which I abandoned end of 2007

upon return to UK

(various personal, family and burying my head in the sand issues which I have since addressed)

total sum was 30,302 Euros

 

In May 2009 I was contacted by email by the very nice Glen Matthews of Bluestone Recoveries

(without confiming identifcation of me and this was a satisfactory communication form )

asking on behalf of his clients ABN AMRO for said amount or alternatively to make payments into their UK bank account.

 

 

After a few months of conversations via email only and me stating that since I was legally seperated with 3 children to support

and no assets apart from a 10 year car and 7 year old pc plus clothes

there was not a lot he could do except accept my offer of a payment plan.

 

I have been making payments for 4 1/2 years to Bluestone recoveries via their UK Bank account

but my question(s) to the forum is/are:

 

Are Bluestone in breach any UK Consumer credit act or consumer license law with this process?

 

As I cannot find any consumer credit license for Bluestone Recoveries in the UK

nor are they listed in companies house are the collections in fact illegal ?

 

Any help and advice on this matter is much appreciated.

[dx100uk]

looks like you are being cash cowed to me.

 

 

send them a CCa request.

 

 

dx

[simo67]

I have sent a CCA request but they are still within the statutory time limit at the moment.

 

Glen Matthews from Blusetone sent me a detailed account statement showing all payments by email

and said he would revert to the clients and forward me the information.

and thanks for the reply to my thread.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Nothing illegal/unlawful about this follow dx100s advice.

[simo67]

Thanks and I am following DX100s advice.

 

Had what I consider delaying replies from Mr Glen Matthews,

saying that he was not aware of the client charging any fee for request

and he has contacted them regarding he request.

 

He still has around 7 working days to comply.

I do not consider what I am doing is illegal at all,

what I am doing hopefully is standing up for my rights which I feel very strongly about

and if there is any breach of consumer credit acts/consumer credit laws or DCA guidelines

then I want the ammunition to fight back.

 

Have to say even though I thought I knew my rights ,

this site has been a real eye opener for me.

 

For the past 4 1/2 years I have been dilligently paying up my debts and have significantly reduced them,

it was by chance I came across CAG (only be typing in blair Oliver Scott complaints)

 

onto BOS Blair Oliver Scott (just received a £40 chq from Halifax Retail Recoveries for me having to spend time on the phone to them last week

when I had specified no telephone communications and it was in their records)

 

I still sent the letter as well stating that any further telephone communications would be considered harassment

and that the Police, OFT and trading standards would be contacted in each case.

 

Even more fun and probably a seperate thread I need to start

on taking on Barclaycard

as it may look like I have overpaid back what the outstanding balance was there by nearly £500 have to calculate what % rate to charge

if is indeed the case and claim back unfair charges,

need to get this one looked at.

 

Finally because of this sites advice I have discovered Halifax still have a default and balance outstanding for a loan account

showing on my credit report that was cleared 1-2 years ago,

have to again use and check this forum to see which letter to send.

 

I'm sure I'll be posting and reading much more on this site and thanks for all the useful info and replies across the various forums,

plus I have already passed on this site to other people who are currently having financial difficulties.

 

When Bluestone and the nice Mr Glen Matthews contact me I will update

and no doubt ask DX100 or Brigadier2JCS for advice on my next steps.

Cheers

[simo67]

update on thread,

 

Bluestone Recoveries and Glen Matthews have made no further communications to me since the last email on 2nd Dec.

 

Time frame has expired well and truly and no 'True copy of the initial agreement'and no 'Deed of Assignment'

 

Swhat do I do now as if I believe they have commited an offence offence under Section 77 (4) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974,

they are in breach of this by not providing the documentation requested.

 

What actions should I take now ?

 

Should I stop payments ?

communicate to them? (what to put in email)

 

Please note all of these communications between myself and Bluestone (Mr Matthews) have been by email, there has been no letter/paper comms.

 

Appreciate any responses , thanks

Edited December 17, 2013 by simo67
spelling

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi,

You are not entitled to see the 'deed of assignment' it is a commercially sensitive contract between the seller & the purchaser of the debt, a court may order production in special circumstances.

 

Not producing the CCA just restricts their ability to enforce in court.

 

There has been no 'offence' in regard to this for some years.

I would do nothing until contacted by post, if they e-mail reply all communication in writing by post only and also do not phone or answer security questions if thet phone you.

[simo67]

Hi Brigadier,

Thanks for the response. I have never had any written or telephone communications with Bluestone.

It all has been by email.

 

Should I change to written comms only, they have no details of my address?

 

without the true copy of the agreement,

they will find it hard to enforce the payment of the debt,

so should I stop payments to them?

 

Am I correct in thinking that this debt is in dispute now as they have not produced the documentation/copies within the specified timeframe

and the original request was sent 25th Nov, so plenty of time to get this documentation.

Thanks again

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi simo,

 

I dislike dealing with debt matters by e-mail as you can never be sure if the intended recipient sees your communication also they are easily denied.

 

12+2 working days are allowed for a CCA request (discount Saturdays/Sundays and Bank Hols).

 

Certainly send an account in dispute letter to them.

[unclebulgaria67]

I agree.

 

Send a letter saying that the account is in dispute without the CCA being provided and you will stop payments.

 

Also you could amend the letter to ask for legal proof that Bluestone have been assigned this debt.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?405830-Letter-for-a-Failed-CCA-Request

 

I have real doubts about the way companies such as Bluestone operate.

 

I believe they work on international debts from offices within the USA.

I don't think they are assigned the debts as such,

but they obtain some listing of debts for which they trace the debtor, make phone calls and send emails.

 

If they manage to gain a response they then earn a commission from the payments they collect.

 

I have not heard of debtors being sent regular statements to confirm

how much money is actually passed to the original creditors/current debt owner.

[simo67]

Thanks Brigadier and Uncle Bulgaria,

I will send an account in dispute letter and see what comes back in reply.

I am looking at amending the letter now to ask for legal proof that Bluestone have been assigned this debt.

[simo67]

Update ,

I received a true copy of my original credit agreement (ABM AMRO)

via a scanned attachment from Lindorff Credit BV (Dutch DCA).

 

I requested a copy of the deed of assignment giving Bluestone the right to collect

on behalf of ABM/AMRO (Lindorff) and to prove who was the owner of the debt

after re requesting and stating it had not been provided.

 

I received end of last month a copy of the master service agreement from Lindorff Credit BV

giving multiple companies the right to act on their behalf including Bluestone.

 

As the date was 1st December 2012 ,

 

I have now replied that all payments collected/demanded from me by Bluestone

between the 1st June 2009 and 1st Dec 2012 were collected illegally

and were a direct breach of the consumer credit act and DCA guidelines.

 

I went on to say this and hope it was the right approach, would appreciate feedback here:

 

All payments collected illegally will be requested via legal action if necessary

in UK courts to be refunded with each payment having 8% compund interest

from date payment was made, plus the £400 of overdraft fees

incurred by me during this time period to enable me to make these illegally collected payments,

plus 46 emails at £14.95 each and 25 hours of research at £19 per hour,

any legal costs incurred by solicitor.

 

I went onto say a copy of this with the details sent by Bluestone

will be sent to Trading Standards and FCA .

 

I then went onto say if he wished to offer a settlement figure ,

due consideration would be given to it.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Update , I received a true copy of my original credit agreement (ABM AMRO) via a scanned attachment from Lindorff Credit BV (Dutch DCA).

I requested a copy of the deed of assignment giving Bluestone the right to collect on behalf of ABM/AMRO (Lindorff) and to prove who was the owner of the debt after re requesting and stating it had not been provided. I received end of last month a copy of the master service agreement from Lindorff Credit BV giving multiple companies the right to act on their behalf including Bluestone.

As the date was 1st December 2012 ,I have now replied that all payments collected/demanded from me by Bluestone between the 1st June 2009 and 1st Dec 2012 were collected illegally and were a direct breach of the consumer credit act and DCA guidelines.

I went on to say this and hope it was the right approach, would appreciate feedback here:

All payments collected illegally will be requested via legal action if necessary in UK courts to be refunded with each payment having 8% compund interest from date payment was made, plus the £400 of overdraft fees incurred by me during this time period to enable me to make these illegally collected payments, plus 46 emails at £14.95 each and 25 hours of research at £19 per hour, plus any leagl costs incurred by solicitor.

I went onto say a copy of this with the details sent by Bluestone will be sent to Trading Standards and FCA .

I then went onto say if he wished to offer a settlement figure , due consideration would be given to it.

 

 

You are not entitled to a sight of the actual deed of assignment, it seems that you have had a NOTICE of Assignment which is all that is needed.

 

 

Why do you believe that what you have paid was collected illegally? You have acknowledged liability for this debt by making payments.

 

 

It looks like all has been complied with at this stage.

 

 

No doubt others will take a look at this.

[unclebulgaria67]

You are not entitled to a sight of the actual deed of assignment, it seems that you have had a NOTICE of Assignment which is all that is needed.

 

 

Why do you believe that what you have paid was collected illegally? You have acknowledged liability for this debt by making payments.

 

 

It looks like all has been complied with at this stage.

 

 

No doubt others will take a look at this.

 

I agree with Brig on this. You had a debt and have made payment towards it. I suspect all that has happened in that Bluestone went on a fishing excercise in 2009, which you took the bait and made payments. Then on 1/12/12, the Dutch company decided to get another agreement signed with Bluestone and others. Does not mean that there was not another arrangement before 1/12/12.

 

This is a Dutch debt, so none of the UK regulations will apply as such. It would be the Dutch regulators who would be responsible for the Dutch bank and debt companies acting for it. If you want to pursue a complaint about the way this debt has been chased, you should take it up with the Dutch bank/regulators in writing.

 

Be aware that the UK courts can enforce foreign debts. If there is a problem with a foreign bank or debt owner, you should be making complaints in writing to the foreign companies concerned, with complaints registered with the regulators in the foreign country, in this case the Netherlands.

[simo67]

Thanks for the quick replies and now understand this is outwith the UK and covered under Dutch regulations, thought as a UK resident and national I would be covered by UK regulations. I still intend to complain to ABM AMRO about their lending practices /(risky loans procedure earnings to loan ratio) and chasing the debt , they seem to have a similar process in The Netherlands to here in UK, bank first then ombudsmen.

wished I'd known about this site back in 2009 and more about DCA.