chezt v's Littlewoods Catalogue **I WON**

[martinhw]

Can someone please pop in the "Highjackers" thread and comment please?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/store-cards/64796-mrs-martinix-littlewoods.html

 

Sorry Chezt for jacking your thread

[chezt]

Willow I've only had one spring with my 'sprog' 'cos she's only 15months old so dunno bout that one ... I'll let u know! She has a sickness bug ATM tho which is nasty ... up till 3.30 this morn with her throwing up so not had much sleep! She's been sick again this teatime but just gone to sleep so hoping to have a better nite n that's hopefully an end to it!

 

Anyway, thanks so much for that info... pretty much explains the process don't it!

 

OK then I've had a letter in the post from Littlewods today ...

 

Firstly it details the outstanding balance (which is much less than £5K mentioned above! )

 

Dear chezt

 

If a third party is acting for you please refer this letter to them ( )

 

With reference to your letter requesting a copy of the credit agreement.

 

Under secs 77&78 of the CCA 1974 we are required to provide a copy of the executed agreement (if any). On the asumption that you have signed the agreement supplied to you at the time of opening your account. We enclose a copy of our agreement, which complies, with the requirements of the CC (Vancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regs 1983

 

Yours faithfully ....

 

& they enclose a copyof a Credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974

 

OK then peeps wot d'ya think? The way I read this is that they have no signed copy .... I honestly don't know if I have or not ... it's YEARS ago since I started with them & it was Burlington way back!

 

The copy has my name & address typed on it but this obviously isn;t a copy of the original agreement as I've moved house since I started many moons ago

 

I presume I now write & say ,.... ''Nnnoooooooo .... I want a 'true' executed copy of the agreement & 'nnnnnoooooo' this is not satisfactory ... !

 

Comments anyone? I will go hunting for a reply but it won't be 2nire as I'm hoping to catch up on some sleep! (Little one's tummy permitting!)

 

I think I saw a suitable one in the 'my mum's catalogue bill isn't getting any lower' thread

[Guest willowb]

If a third party is acting for you please refer this letter to them ( )

LOL thats's funny! the little confused face I mean:D what are they on about?

 

Anyway....

 

I presume I now write & say ,.... ''Nnnoooooooo .... I want a 'true' executed copy of the agreement & 'nnnnnoooooo' this is not satisfactory ... !

Yes and some, what I didn't know until reading LFIs post was all that other stuff they are supposed to send aswell. You need to read the relevan section in the CCA (statutes in library) and quote LFIs post....scare the bejezzus out of them!!!

 

Willow I've only had one spring with my 'sprog' 'cos she's only 15months old so dunno bout that one

Sorry....well, just you wait!!!! lol and it gets worse the more you have. virus domino effect:(

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

LOL thats's funny! the little confused face I mean:D what are they on about?

I dunno! To quote you ... I haven't got a scooby! (that made me chuckle! )

 

Yes and some, what I didn't know until reading LFIs post was all that other stuff they are supposed to send aswell. You need to read the relevan section in the CCA (statutes in library) and quote LFIs post....scare the bejezzus out of them!!!

 

I know - I thought that! OK will deffo 'read up' n try n put the ebiee geebies up 'em!

 

 

Sorry....well, just you wait!!!! lol and it gets worse the more you have. virus domino effect:(

 

Wxxx

 

Aww thanks for that ... cant blimmin wait!

[bill-k]

She's been sick again this teatime

Try and get little Muffin to keep still for 5 mins & let her tummy settle.

If a third party is acting for you please refer this letter to them ( )

They can't understand why you're not like the majority of their agents - you're kicking @$$ for a change !!

With reference to your letter requesting a copy of the credit agreement.

 

Under secs 77&78 of the CCA 1974 we are required to provide a copy of the executed agreement (if any). On the asumption that you have signed the agreement supplied to you at the time of opening your account. We enclose a copy of our agreement, which complies, with the requirements of the CC (Vancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regs 1983

 

Yours faithfully ....

 

& they enclose a copyof a Credit agreement regulated by the CCA 1974

 

OK then peeps wot d'ya think? The way I read this is that they have no signed copy .... I honestly don't know if I have or not ... it's YEARS ago since I started with them & it was Burlington way back!

 

The copy has my name & address typed on it but this obviously isn;t a copy of the original agreement as I've moved house since I started many moons ago

 

I presume I now write & say ,.... ''Nnnoooooooo .... I want a 'true' executed copy of the agreement & 'nnnnnoooooo' this is not satisfactory ... !

Yes, but as Willow says, there is extra stuff, too. I believe there are three possible outcomes to this:

1: They produce it, along with the other stuff - this is the booby prize;

2: They don't produce it, and thus put themselves in breach of the CCA;

3: They give you a clear and unambiguous admission that they do not have it - this is the Holy Grail !!

bill isn't getting any loswer' thread

What's this ? How low do you want me to go ? !!!

[Guest willowb]

They can't understand why you're not like the majority of their agents - you're kicking @$$ for a change !!

PML...Of course!!!!!

 

Chezt.....those tummy bug things only usually last a day or so, you will hopefully find that she'll be sleepy for the next 3 days! I hope you get some shut eye hun, I know what it's like....do you and OH take it turns with lay ins? I love it when mine's home......I get the majority of them, firstly because I am entitled:rolleyes: and secondly because he misses the little'ns so much that he doesn't mind......I need to spend some time away me thinks:)

 

Wxxx

I better go and subscribe to messing around again hadn't I?

[chezt]

Bill ... lol @ u not getting any lower! Willow ... I tend to get most of the lie-ins (although not many!) but I thinks that's cos it's always me who gets up in the night - I'm still feeding her myself so he can't do that ..

 

OK I've been working on a letter to LW saying 'thanks but u know that's not what I requested' But I was wondering how much I should 'reveal' at this stage ... here's what I've done so far ... should I add more quotes etc or take some away ?? Would like to get the right balance ...do I go softly softly or go hell for leather with the eebeejeebies now?

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 8th February 2007 in relation to my request for you to supply me with a true certified copy of the credit agreement under which this account is conducted. You have enclosed a copy of a recently printed agreement which is not what I requested and does not comply with your legal requirements. You state that you are assuming that I have a signed copy of an agreement when infact this is not the case.

 

Once again I remind you of your duty to supply all documentation under sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are not sure of your responsibilities and the exact documentation you are required to supply under this act, then I suggest you research thoroughly in order to carry out your legal obligations.

 

You now have until the 18th of February to produce the certified copies requested as per CCA guidelines. I remind you that you are currently in default under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence. Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

So should I go the whole hog (as above) or be a bit more vauge (airy fairy) as mentioned before!?

 

I need to get this posted 2moro really me thinks ..

ps - Do you think I should now advise CCCS to stop making payments to LW as they are in default???

[bill-k]

Bill ... lol @ u not getting any lower! Willow ... I tend to get most of the lie-ins (although not many!) but I thinks that's cos it's always me who gets up in the night - I'm still feeding her myself so he can't do that ..

- and what's wrong with the Express Dairy, may I ask ??

 

OK I've been working on a letter to LW saying 'thanks but u know that's not what I requested' But I was wondering how much I should 'reveal' at this stage ... here's what I've done so far ... should I add more quotes etc or take some away ?? Would like to get the right balance ...do I go softly softly or go hell for leather with the eebeejeebies now?

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 8th February 2007 in relation to my request for you to supply me with a true certified copy of the credit agreement under which this account is conducted. You have enclosed a copy of a recently printed agreement which is not what I requested and does not comply with your legal requirements. You state that you are assuming that I have a signed copy of an agreement when infact this is not the case. [delete this - it's an unnecessary admission - don't give it to them]. "You are entitled to your assumption, but I am entitled to a full, proper, and lawful response to my request for a copy of yours, as detailed below."

 

Once again I remind you of your duty to supply all documentation under sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are not sure of your responsibilities and the exact documentation you are required to supply under this act, then I suggest you research thoroughly in order to carry out your legal obligations.

 

You now have until the 18th of February to produce the certified copies requested as per CCA guidelines. I remind you that you are currently in default under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that non-compliance with my request is a criminal [delete - don't tell 'em this until it's too late !!] offence. Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

So should I go the whole hog (as above) or be a bit more vauge (airy fairy) as mentioned before!?

Wait until they have actually committed the offence before you tell them what they've done. They should know this, it's not up to you to help them with the CCA !!!

I need to get this posted 2moro really me thinks ..

ps - Do you think I should now advise CCCS to stop making payments to LW as they are in default???

Yes, I think so, but see if any other answers arrive. Check with Willow, particularly, on this.

 

It looks good to me, Chez - just a coupla wee picks, that's all !!

[lookinforinfo]

Chezt, their letter admits that the copy sent complies with CC [Cancellation

Notices and Copies of Documents]Regs 1983. In other words, it does not

comply with your CCA request. [And whether you have a copy of the original

agreement or not, is irrelevant. You want to see if they have the right to

pursue you for the debt.]

 

What they should have sent is a copy of the agreement they sent you, BUT

it should have your signature and the original creditors' signature, along with

the date the agreement was signed.

 

Your letter is fine, though I would remove the bit where you admit you do not

have a copy of the original-that makes it too easy for them to cobble some

thing together and pass it off as a copy of the original, safe in the knowledge

that you won't know the difference.

 

Also s189 covers the definitions within the Act, it is actually s78 [6] that

covers when the criminal offence is committed. So as you are not quite there, I would be inclined not to tell them-so omit that line and make this

your letter

I am in receipt of your letter dated 8th February 2007 in relation to my request for you to supply me with a true certified copy of the credit agreement under which this account is conducted. You have enclosed a copy of a recently printed agreement which is not what I requested and does not comply with your legal requirements. .

 

Once again I remind you of your duty to supply all documentation under sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are not sure of your responsibilities and the exact documentation you are required to supply under this act, then I suggest you research thoroughly in order to carry out your legal obligations.

 

I remind you that you are currently in default under s78 [6]of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence carrying a fine of up to £2500. Furthermore you are reminded that under the same sub section,

whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully .

 

That should concentrate their minds.

 

PS Thankyou to the lovely Willow for posting one of my posts on CCA

requirements. Please note that in that one I said that the fine was £5000

when it should read £2500.

[lookinforinfo]

Sorry Bill, you posted at the same time. Don't think we are too different.

The revised letter appears to imply that they have already committed the

offence, unless you read it carefully.

[lookinforinfo]

Chezt, if it was me, I would not bother writing to them at all. They have

already admitted they have sent the wrong document to you. The longer

they don't comply, the better for you.

And if they do restart to pursue you, that is another breach you can hit them with if they are stupid enough to take you to Court. It is not your duty to

tell them what Acts they are in default of-but the Judge will know. If they

haven't complied by the 18th, there is little chance you will end up in Court,

so why waste money on a letter.

[bill-k]

Lookinforinfo - yes, we're basically in agreement. I only recommend sending further reminders so that it is on record that you have done YOUR best to help these poor ignorant folk !! It gives them less to stand on in defence, when they are in the dock for criminal breach of CCA. It is THEY who should be collecting evidence here, so as LFI suggests - don't give them any clues !!!

[Guest willowb]

PS Thankyou to the lovely Willow

Oh gosh!!! thank you!

£5000

when it should read £2500.

If you don't mind LFI I will amend the quote for the sake of accuracy for others who read it.

 

Chezt looks like you are covered here! you don't need me butting in:)

 

Wxxx

[chezt]

Thank you so much everyone! LFI cheers for the 'guest appearance' I really appreciate your help/advice with the letter

 

I'll get this printed & post it 2moro ...praps I oughta seal it with a kiss with it being valentines eh?

 

ps - I'll ring CCCS 2moro & see what they say

[lookinforinfo]

Yes willow that would be a great idea to alter the amount. To be honest I

haven't altered it on the original post since that would make the correction by

the Mod seem strange. But on reflection it might be better that way than

someone wrongly think that £5000 is the actual figure.

[lookinforinfo]

You're very welcome Chezt. I'd still be inclined not to send it. They hold a

Consumer Credit licence, so should be well enough aware of the CCA without

any reminders.

And I wouldn't like it it if someone wrote and told me my job.

[harrythehawk]

Sorry to intrude, I have had a similar response from La Redoute quoting the 1983 Amendments and saying yes I WOULD HAVE signed it and a blank copy and a computer print out is OK - yeah right !! I haven't responded yet and was going to let the time take it's course, should I be responding just to make it clear I don't agree with what they are saying ? I like the look of the letter in this thread !!

[lookinforinfo]

Harry, there is no requirement for you to remind them of their obligations

under the Act. In practice, what usually happens is that after a length of time has elapsed, they will write to you asking for payment. That is when you can point out that they cannot do that as they have not yet complied

with your request. And if they haven't yet committed a criminal offence I

wouldnt alert them to that. You are more than welcome to use or amend

the letter in any way you want.

[chezt]

Aww well too late peeps .. I posted the letter this afternoon! TBH not sure if they will come up with owt but we will see but basically if they haven't got it ... they haven't got it eh!?

 

I hear what ur saying LFI but as I said, as this one's already filed in court, I wanna be covered from all angles if I have to call the whole thing off by getting the whole debt wiped instead of the charges refunded (which incidently are a lot less than the balance!) At least I will hopefully look reasonable to the judge if needed ... don't you think?

 

Harry if you wanna use the letter - use away - would seriously take on board LFI's advice as he/she's (?) much more knowledgeable on this subject than myself

 

Thanks everyone .... keep watching!

[chezt]

- and what's wrong with the Express Dairy, may I ask ??

 

Absolutely nothing!!! My Express Dairy is just fine & wonderful thank you! (Ask Chufta Bum! )

[chezt]

And I wouldn't like it it if someone wrote and told me my job.

 

No neither would I ... but then if I wasn't doing it correctly I'd expect to be told

[lookinforinfo]

Yeah-no probs Chezt-good luck with the case.

[chezt]

Hi guys - sorry I'm not round much ATM ... lil chufta bum is poorly with some virus & has been since Friday - it's a constant battle keeping her temperature down n we've been at the docs 2hrs 2nite 'cos it was @ 40 & they didn't wanna let her come home till she responded to medicine! Hence not getting much sleep

 

ANYWAY, Nowt further from Littlewoods so they are now commiting a criminal offence ... what do I do now ... tell a bobby?

 

Nah only kidding ... I presume I write & tell 'em I'm paying no more money as the debt is unenforceable etc (is there a template to use for this anywhere .. I can't seem to find one)

 

Also, what do I do about my pending court claim? do I write to the court & advise about the CCA breach ... ?? Please help ... thanks in advance

 

(Note: the charges are much less than the outstanding balance)

[Guest willowb]

Hi guys - sorry I'm not round much ATM ... lil chufta bum is poorly with some virus & has been since Friday - it's a constant battle keeping her temperature down n we've been at the docs 2hrs 2nite 'cos it was @ 40 & they didn't wanna let her come home till she responded to medicine! Hence not getting much sleep

 

Awwww poor lil muffin!!!! I do hope she gets better soon hun....is this a carry-on from when she had that tummy bug? is it the same virus?

 

As for the template hunny, I'm hoping I may need one myself soon:rolleyes: so I'll go and have a look for you, I'm sure I've seen one somewhere....

 

Actually, thinking about it, now that the debt is unenforceable you could also send a statutory notice re the default (have I got the right thread?:-? )!!!! hummmm I'll be back in a mo.

 

Wxxx

[Guest willowb]

Right, this is a really nice/good thread, I'm sure that we can grab things from it for you and add it to a stat notice.....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56001-mike220359-blair-oliver-scott.html

 

Wxxx