MCA (Membership Collection Agency) - Key IV Fitness gym *RESOLVED*

[RTF1980]

Hi Analyst,

 

I've recently had a run in with MCA through my membership with Key VI Fitness, for whom they acted as a collection agent.

 

I cancelled my membership with Key VI with the cancellation effective from September 2013 and then cancelled my direct debit to ensure no further payments were taken. My case is similar to yours in the details:

 

I had a letter from MCA claiming a £30 membership fee for October 2013 plus a £12.50 penalty fee.

 

I then wrote to Key VI asking for clarification and offering to directly pay them a final month's membership of £30 for Oct if there was a payment outstanding. I also advised the gym that MCA was charging dodgy penalty fees and that I was not going to pay those charges. Key VI wrote back and told me that my membership was cancelled and that no further membership payments were due to them, for Oct 2013 or subsequent months.

 

I relayed this message to MCA who confirmed that the gym had advised them of my cancellation and that no membership fees were due, but still insisting that a £12.50 'cancellation fee' (note the change) was due in order for the 'membership to cancel'.

 

There was nothing like this in my membership agreement and so I requested they point out exactly why I should pay this fee. I also requested that they send clear confirmation that no further fees or demands would be made of me.

 

None of this was forthcoming but they made repeated requests for the £12.50 payment via email - and acted as if the membership was still acted. They then sent a letter clearly suggesting that they believed the membership wasn't cancelled (as if it was up to them) demanding another unexplained £12.50 fee, bringing the total to £25.

 

My response was to deny all claims in full and to refuse to pay any cancellation/late fees/ admin fees or penalties associated with my former membership with Key VI. I also pledged to issue formal complaints to trading standards and the FOS if any further demands were made of me.

 

That is how the situation stands to date, and it is more than a little absurd in my opinion: a collection agency trying to pursue a former gym member for payment of unlawful penalty changes, leveled on membership fees their client had confirmed were not even due to them!

 

I wondered how this turned out for you and if you heard from MCA again after you sent your letter refusing to pay their penalty fees?

 

Best regards!

[slick132]

Hi RTF and welcome to CAG

 

I've put your post into your own new thread which you can use from now on.

 

1. When did you join and what was the minimum m/ship period.

 

2. When did you give notice to the gym of your intention to cancel.

 

3. Was notice given by phone, letter, email or in person and, if written, have you kept a copy.

 

4. On what date was your last payment.

 

The admin or cancellation fees or whatever MCA call them are unenforceable penalties and I drafted a quick response below for you to use if you want.

 

The FOS is not involved in such gym matters. If it came down to a formal complaint, The OFT is the body to contact.

 

The simple method here is to send MCA a letter or email saying:-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your communications which demand payment of £12.50 and now £25.00 in respect of my cancelled membership agreement with Key IV Fitness gym.

 

To enable me to consider the demands properly, please confirm :-

 

1. The total you now require to be paid to settle this matter.

 

2. The way this total is arrived at.

 

3. The amount of any financial losses caused to you or your client gym caused by any alleged breach of contract by me.

 

Please respond in writing only within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Let us know if and how they reply.

 

Edited November 26, 2013 by slick132

[RTF1980]

Hi Slick,

 

Many thanks for your quick response.

 

1. When did you join and what was the minimum m/ship period.

 

I joined in March 2013 and was told that there was no minimum contractual period, but one month's notice was requested when cancelling. This was a face to face conversation and unfortunately I have no record of it. I realized later that the DD mandate form/membership agreement which I signed stipulated a 12 month minimum term. I should have checked this before I signed, but the behaviour of the gym in wake of my membership cancellation (i.e. that they allowed the cancellation within 12 months) suggests to me that my original understanding of our agreement was the correct one.

 

2. When did you give notice to the gym of your intention to cancel.

 

I gave notice of cancellation by email in September 2013. I last used the gym facilities in August but I paid for September, intending this to be my one month's paid notice. I then cancelled my DD.

 

3. Was notice given by phone, letter, email or in person and, if written, have you kept a copy.

 

I notified the gym by email and received an email response confirming the cancellation. I later emailed to check with the gym whether they felt a payment for October was owed to them and that I was prepared to pay this as a final installment (following MCA's letter) They replied by email advising me that no further membership fees were due. I have copies of all my communications with Key VI by email. This understanding was accepted by MCA because they have not subsequently tried to demand membership fees from me on behalf of Key VI - but they persist in seeking their own penalty/cancellation fees, and they word their communications as if my membership were not cancelled.

 

I have also kept copies of all email communication with MCA, as well as the two letters they have sent me to date.

 

4. On what date was your last payment.

 

13th September 2013

 

Thank you for the letter template suggestion. I sent an email on 22nd November denying their charges - please see below. This was before I received their second £12.50 penalty fee demand (dated 20th Nov, received 23rd Nov) Should I wait to see if and when they respond before communicating further?

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

My membership with Key VI is cancelled. This has been confirmed by them, as has the fact that no further payments are outstanding. This cancellation is not dependent on any further payments being made to you. Despite my making this clear, your previous emails imply that you believe my Key VI membership has not been cancelled - which is not the case. In light of this it was not unreasonable for me to request clear confirmation from you that you would not demand any further payments related to this account. This clarification has not been forthcoming from you.

 

Furthermore you have not satisfactorily explained any legitimate grounds you believe that a final payment of £12.50 is owed to you.

 

My former membership with Key VI has been cancelled by mutual consent and no further payments are outstanding, as has been confirmed by them in writing. I am not obliged to pay a further £12.50 cancellation fee to you in order for the cancellation to come into effect. At no point have I agreed to pay a cancellation fee on those terms. Therefore you cannot demand a cancellation fee from me and I will not pay such a fee.

 

Looking back on our correspondence, the £12.50 'cancellation' charge you refer to is the same as the 'penalty fee' you attempted to charge me as a result of a ‘dishonoured’ direct debit for October 2013. As Key VI have waived any outstanding membership payments for October 2013 I fail to understand how such a penalty could still apply? In any case such penalty fees as you have requested are entirely unlawful and unenforceable. I will not pay any such penalty fees.

 

I paid money to you only insofar as you acted as collection agent for Key VI. I have never owed money to you independently. As I no longer have a membership or outstanding payments with Key VI you can make no further demands of me.

 

I therefore reject this £12.50 cancellation/penalty charge and any further financial demands associated with my former membership of Key VI Fitness.

 

I now consider this matter closed. Any further demands from you will be referred to Trading Standards and to the FOS for formal investigation for breach of the OFT's Guidelines on debt collection.

 

 

Many thanks again for your advice and help! I shall keep you informed of all developments.

 

Cheers

[slick132]

Hi RTF,

 

Ok, as you've already sent them your letter, wait for their response and let us know.

 

If they persist in seeking any payment, we can draft a suitable reply based on years of gym admin experience.

 

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Key VI say the account is cancelled yet they pass on the 'outstanding' debt to MCA. MCA contact you and charge you for the privilege.

 

You confirm with Key VI that no debt is owing yet MCA still want their charge. That is laughable!

 

Key VI cocked up by asking MCA to chase you. Let Key VI pay the fee. (or challenge them re the lawfulness of it)

[RTF1980]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for your messages. Here's the latest in the saga

 

I had the following email from MCA this morning:

 

Dear Mr RTF1980,

 

Thank you for your recent email, I can confirm that you are not being charge a ‘cancellation fee’. You are however, being charged for a dishounered direct debit charge.

 

Please contact MCA on the below number as soon as possible.

 

The 'dishonoured' direct debit in question is the DD I cancelled which would have taken my £30 Key VI membership fee for Oct 2013. Key VI confirmed that no further membership fees were owed for October, so I fail to see how MCA could consider the payment 'dishonoured'.

 

Do you feel I need to respond to this latest email at all, considering that in my previous email I rejected payment of all penalty charges?

 

Thanks again for your advise and moral support!

 

Much appreciated.

 

Edited November 26, 2013 by slick132
swapped name

[silverfox1961]

Personally I would string this out as long as possible as it is so absurd.

 

So the charge is a failed DD charge for a direct debit they should never have tried to take in the first place.

 

I would be saying see you in court.

 

I would keep an eye on your credit file though to ensure they don't put adverse info on it

[slick132]

Hi RTF,

 

Write to MCA saying:-

 

I refer to your email of 26th November.

 

The amounts you refer to (dishonoured DD fee) are effectively penalty fees and, as such, are not enforceable at law.

 

The gym has already confirmed that I owed them nothing more and they are your "employer" in this matter.

 

If you continue to make demands, I will report your actions to the gym senior management and I'll also make a formal complaint to The OFT.

 

[RTF1980]

Hi Silver Fox,

 

Yes, the situation is bizarre.

 

After cancelling my membership I made my final payment to Key VI in September understanding this to me the one month's notice I had agreed with them. I then cancelled my DD as it was no longer required. The gym's collection agent MCA sent me a letter in October saying I had 'dishonoured' my October DD and demanded the £30 membership plus their own unlawful penalty fee of £12.50 (subsequently increased to £25)

 

I contacted the gym offering to pay October's membership fee (but not the penalty charge) if I had made a mistake regarding the notice period. Their response was to confirm to me that no further membership payments were owed. The way I understand it; as the membership payment was not owed then the DD cannot be considered to have been 'dishonoured' and no penalty charges could be justified - even had I accepted the legality of such charges.

 

I posed this point directly to MCA but unsurprisingly they had no answer and so dodged the question. Obviously the right thing for this collection agent to have done would have been to have 'waived' the penalty fee following the admission of their employer that there was no debt to collect. At the very least I fail to see why I should be the one to be 'penalised' for the mistake. But no... Not once have MCA attempted to engage me in a meaningful dialogue or respond satisfactorily to my queries.

 

I have saved a long list of email communications with both Key VI and MCA - and it is clear to me that this debacle has arisen as a result of mis-communication between Key VI and MCA; and then the obstinacy of MCA in continuing to pursue an unjustifiable penalty fee rather than back down.

 

I expect that MCA are used to people in these situations eventually giving in to their bullying tactics and paying up in the end.

 

I will keep an eye on my credit file - many thanks for the tip

[RTF1980]

Hi Slick,

 

Many thanks for the suggested email. I will send this response over to them today and will keep you up to date with any response I get from them.

 

Cheers

[slick132]

Hi RTF,

 

Certainly keep an eye on your CRA files but I doubt this would ever be reported.

 

CRA's stopped carrying gym agreement info when The OFT started looking carefully into the tactics used by Ashbourne Mgt Svs Ltd which resulted in a High Court case in March 2011 - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?320766-Ashbourne-Management-Services-Ltd-Contracts-longer-than-12-months

 

Keep us updated.

 

[RTF1980]

Hi Guys,

 

Here is the latest email from MCA in full.

 

This one really beggars belief; they claim that the Office of Fair Trading does not apply to them lol

 

Dear Mr D Wingfield,

 

Thank you for your recent email, I can confirm that we are not regulated by the OFT and would therefore advise you to seek legal advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

As always, advice on how to respond is very much appreciated.

 

In accordance with my previous email I am now determined to instigate an official complaint with OFT about MCA's conduct and would appreciate any pointers about how to start.

 

I will also draft a letter of complaint to the management of Key VI and update this thread on what I send.

 

Cheers!

 

[slick132]

Dear sir or madam,

 

I am fully aware that you are not regulated by The OFT but complaints about gyms and their admin companies will be noted by The OFT as part of their ongoing monitoring of the gym membership industry.

 

Accordingly, further demands from you will be reported to The OFT.

 

In the meantime, I will not be paying you any more.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[RTF1980]

Thanks Slick,

 

Have a good weekend guys

[RTF1980]

Hi Guys,

 

Here is the latest email instalment from MCA - sent today.

 

Dear Mr D Wingfield,

 

Thank you for your recent email, I can confirm that your comments have been noted on your membership. However, the payment is still outstanding.

 

They have back tracked on their previous attempts to assert that my gym membership wasn't cancelled but still claim that their penalty fee is outstanding.

 

I have unequivocally rejected their fees in previous emails and they have not answered any of my queries about the grounds for justifying such a payment. I don't see any real reason to respond to them unless you feel it is advisable to do so.

 

What is the process for complaining to the OFT?

 

Cheers

[slick132]

I suggest an email as follows :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your email of xxdate.

 

If you choose to waste further time on this matter, that is your prerogative.

 

I reserve my right to ignore further communications from you or anyone instructed by you, although such communications will be reported to The OFT.

 

I will also report your continuing actions to your principal, the gym.

 

If you maintain your admin charges (penalties charges that are not enforceable at law) are payable, I suggest you take court action or drop the matter entirely. Any court action will be vigorously defended.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[RTF1980]

Thanks Slick!

 

Message duly sent, and I also popped a formal letter of complaint in the post today to the Director of Key VI Fitness.

 

I will keep this thread updated of any further developments so that it can be a searchable resource for anyone else MCA tries to pull this kind of stunt on.

 

In the meantime, many thanks for all your help to date.

 

Cheers

 

[RTF1980]

Hello All,

 

Below is an update of how this matter has developed since my last update:

 

On 7th December Key VI received my letter of complaint about MCA’s conduct and to their credit took prompt action in my favour.

 

On 9th December Key VI emailed MCA demanding that they immediately drop all payment demands from me and confirming that my membership account was settled with no outstanding dues. They requested that MCA respond both to them and to me confirming that the matter was closed and that no further charges would be pursued. Key VI also mentioned to MCA that they had been the subject of a number of other similar complaints from members and ex-members.

 

On 10th December MCA emailed back to Key VI stating that they had closed my ‘account’ and would be making no further demands for charges, but they would invoice Key VI for the penalty charge in order to cover their losses. Key VI agreed to this in a reply of the same day. MCA did not advise me of this.

 

Instead, on the same day, MCA emailed me the following:

 

“As previously stated, the £12.50 charge is still due and will continue to be chased for. Please contact MCA on the below number to make this payment as soon as possible.”

 

Also on 10th December they posted me a letter (received 14th December) giving ‘notification of legal action’. In the letter they claimed they were ‘about to instruct their solicitors to commence legal proceedings’ and demanding £25 in penalty fees.

I ignored both these communications from MCA.

 

On 16th December I received a written response in the post from Key VI regarding the complaint I had made the previous week. They briefed me on the action they had taken and sent me printed copies of the emails they had sent to MCA.

 

I emailed Key VI and advised them that I had received no notification from MCA that they had ‘closed my account’ and that, on the same day they had invoiced Key VI for the penalty fees, that they had issued further threats and demands for penalties to me.

 

Key VI responded by immediately emailing MCA to demand what was going on, and instructing them to get in touch with both them and me with clarification and assurance that the matter has been dropped.

 

I do not believe for a minute that MCA will try and take this to court – and if they do they won’t have a leg to stand on after this.

 

While I am not making allegations, the evidence strongly suggests that on 10th December MCA was telling me one thing and Key VI quite another, in order to extort penalty fees from us both. This would be in character with the inconsistent and misleading nature of their communications with me to date. The alternative conclusion is that MCA’s internal communications and data storage is woefully inadequate.

 

Either way it doesn't reflect well on them!

 

I will update this thread with any further updates.

 

[silverfox1961]

Well all credit to Key VI and absolutely no credit to MCA

 

From their own website.

No one wants to get embroiled in more administration than is absolutely necessary.

 

That made me laugh a it is they that have caused this admin nightmare.

[silverfox1961]

Now, as MCA are acting as a debt collector, shouldn't they have a CCA Licence? I would have thought so.

 

I cannot find a company listing on Companies House and the CCA licence they 'had' lapsed on 30/11/2001.

 

I cannot find 'as yet' any other company that may have MCA as a trading name but I will keep looking.

 

In the meantime, I may just email them for their registration numbers

[RTF1980]

Hi Silver Fox,

 

I've done some digging and I can't find any reference to a limited company called MCA or Membership Collection Agency on Company's House.

 

Membership Collection Agency (MCA) appears to be the trading name of a David Martin Forsyth-Pontin, who is operating as a sole trader. The letters I received from MCA note Mr Forsyth- Pontin as the 'proprietor' of MCA.

 

This is interesting, as I wasn't aware that individuals were entitled to operate as direct debit originators. MCA advertise on their website that they are a 'BACS approved Bureau', which I will have to investigate further.

 

Emails sent by Key VI to MCA have addressed a 'Vanessa', so he may employ some administrative help or a family member in running the business. However, all of MCA's emails and letters to me have been anonymous.

 

I have found the following information about Mr Forsyth-Pontin from free publicly available sources.

 

He is not currently a holder of any company directorships but has a record of four 'dissolved appointments' going back to 2000

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/907381147

 

More information about Mr Forsyth-Pontin can be found on Duedil.com https://www.duedil.com/director/907381147/david-martin-forsyth-pontin

 

He is an ex-director of Club Success Systems Ltd, a company which traded between 2000 - 2010 before being dissolved. (current outstanding liabilities £4,200)

https://www.duedil.com/company/03938904/club-success-systems-limited

 

He also held a director's post at the similarly named Club Success Ltd (formerly Cogkindle ltd), which traded from 2001 until it was dissolved in 2009. (current outstanding liabilities £19,639)

https://www.duedil.com/company/04140419/club-success-limited

 

These two companies both traded at the address given on the MCA website.

 

He is also noted as being an director of NSL Scaffolding Ltd, of Northampton, a company trading between 2003 and is dissolution in 2007. (current outstanding liabilities £114,072)

https://www.duedil.com/company/04736564/n-s-l-scaffolding-limited

 

In light of this history, MCA's claim on their website that they have been:

 

"managing regular payments on behalf of private companies, local authorities’, charities and trusts for over two decades." (http://www.membershipcollectionagency.com/index.php)

 

is not true, as I have not been able to find any reference to MCA preceding 2010

 

Cheers

RTF

[slick132]

Hi RTF,

 

It's hard to believe that MCA are willing to upset their Principal (the gym) by continuing to demand payment of their penalty fees from their customer.

 

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are just RUBBISH at administration.

 

Court action threatened - bring it on !! They'd look a tad foolish taking this case to court.

 

[RTF1980]

Hi Slick,

 

Well I certainly wouldn't take that kind of risk with my own customers, especially over such a small sum.

 

But hey, as it is the season of good will I'll be charitable and put it down to simple incompetence.

 

Cheers

RTF

[RTF1980]

Hi Guys,

 

And so it ends :

 

Me to MCA this morning:

 

"Dear MCA,

 

In an email dated 9th December Key VI contacted you explaining that no outstanding membership dues or other costs are outstanding from my cancelled membership. They requested you cease pursuing me for such costs and that you send me confirmation that the matter is closed.

 

I understand that you relayed this confirmation to Laura in a phone conversation of 10th December. However, this confirmation has not been given to me as requested by Key VI.

 

Please confirm by response to this email that the account is closed and that no allegedly outstanding payments, charges etc will be pursued further, and that henceforth you will not be contacting me again about this matter.

 

Both Key VI and I should be copied into your response.

 

Kind Regards"

 

MCA to me this afternoon:

 

"Dear RTF

 

Thank you for your email, this is to confirm your account with us has been closed.

 

I hope this information reaches you in good health and if you have any questions or queries, please do not hesitate to contact MCA on 0844 800 7230.

 

Best Regards"

 

Many thanks to Slick and SilverFox for your help and support with this matter and it's successful resolution.

 

Much appreciated!

 

There was only ever a small amount of money at stake in my case, but for me the principle was important; that agencies such as MCA shouldn't be able to get away with pushing people around and making unjust demands. Nor should they be pursuing penalty charges arising from their own administrative cock ups. Nor should they be defying their employers by chasing ex-members for admin charges when the gym has confirmed the membership to be closed.

 

All the best

RtF

[silverfox1961]

Well done. I agree, it is the principle not the amount.

 

This should never have gone this far in the first place. I hope MCA sort out their administration issues-and soon!

 

I will mark this thread resolved.