Redetermination Hearing?

[Sunshire]

Hi

 

I'm starting a new post as the thread on my last one was getting rather long and I thought it would be easier to summarise it to where I am now, so briefly, the chain of events are:

 

I, as the Claimant, initiated a small claim. Provided all the paperwork, served notice etc, did everything according to the book.

A default judgement for £2100 was awarded against the Defendant because they did not defend the claim.

The defendant then immediately put in a set aside application which was dismissed at a Hearing.

They then put another one in, which was also dismissed at a second Hearing.

I put a warrant of execution in for the full amount to be paid.

The defendant then put a variation order in for a very low amount and I objected stating the amount I would accept per month.

I then received a notice from the court saying I had been awarded more than the Defendant had offered, but still less than half what I had asked for.

At the same time, I also received another letter from the court saying that because I had objected to the variation order, the matter would be passed to a judge for consideration (was not clear if my objection had been taken into account when the awarded amount was set?)

I have now received notice to attend a Redetermination Hearing - the court couldn't tell me if they had set this up or if the Defendant had requested it to argue about the payments amount which the court had set!

 

Has anyone got any idea what the purpose of the Hearing is? My written objection submitted in the prescribed timescale was quite clear in setting out why I thought the Defendant, could, and should pay more than they had offered. I'm not sure there is anything I can add. Not finding the process particularly quick, easy to understand and I am a reasonably intelligent person (or at least I thought I was)!

 

Thanks

[Ganymede]

The hearing is for the Judge to hear from both sides and hear each argument.

 

If you do not attend then the Defendant will just get what he's asking for.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?392394-Requesting-a-warrant

 

Original thread, although I don't think it is a good idea to split the threads as people will ask questions that have already been answered.

[Sunshire]

As the judgment has been awarded, we are just arguing about monthly amounts here. Not sure why another hearing is required as any evidence in the form of proof of income/monthly outgoings etc can easily be provided in documentary form by the defendant without the need for both parties to attend in person. Plus from experience, I would have said written proof provided by a third party (ie bank) holds more weight and is far more reliable than anything which the Defendant is likely to say verbally at the hearing. I will obviously be attending though.

[Blondie40]

As you and the defendant "are just arguing about monthly payments" this would suggest why this has gone to another hearing. DJ will decide if the amount defendant is offering is acceptable given their circumstances and will probably suggest you accept.

 

By rejecting their initial offer of monthly payments and indicating an amount you would accept, it suggests you did not oppose the defendants application for a Variation Order. This would ideally have been the time to apply for a Charging Order once you knew they had applied for the Variation Order.

 

Did you follow andyorch's advice and look into AoE or Charging Order?

 

B40

[citizenB]

All I can find by searching the internet is that these hearings last between 10 and 30 minutes and the defendant can be questioned by the Judge on various expenditures.

[Ganymede]

All I can find by searching the internet is that these hearings last between 10 and 30 minutes and the defendant can be questioned by the Judge on various expenditures.

 

 

Done loads of these, it's a pretty quick and easy hearing. The DJ will listen to both sides and decide on the level of payments.

[Sunshire]

Thank you all.

 

My objection to the variation order was based on the monthly amount which I had been offered as I considered it to be too low (given what I know about the defendant's circumstances), not that I wouldn't accept payment in installments.

 

The confusion (for me) has arisen as the court appears to be doing things out of order, ie why ask for any comments I wish to make in response to the VO to be in by a certain date if they are going to award an amount anyway and THEN set a Hearing based on my objection? Surely it would have been sensible to take my comments into account, arrange a hearing if necessary and then the judge set an amount?

[Sunshire]

Also. who pays for this redetermination hearing? I had my out of pocket expenses paid by the defendant when his two set aside applications were dismissed at hearings. Thanks.

[Ganymede]

Usually the 'loser' pays the winners costs.

[Sunshire]

So while I am the one owed money (not just by way a default judgment but TWO judges have subsequently dismissed the defendants two set aside applications), I could end up paying him costs because I dared to query (via an objection) "why" he wasn't paying the debt quicker (ie in larger amounts)?

 

I really have to wonder if there is any point in the process where I will a) get my money, and b) feel that the law is on my side. Every time I think I'm getting somewhere, the defendant bangs in another excuse (type of application), everything stops so they can have their say and I haven't received a penny of what is owed even though it is accepted by everyone(including the defendant) that I am owed money.

 

It's a minefield - maybe it will be easier when they streamline the system to make all parties aware of their options at each stage of the process so they feel more informed....oh... they already did that?!

[Blondie40]

The defendant will have paid a court fee when they made the application for the Variation Order, as Judgment for the original claim was made in your favour any reasonable cost you incur in preparing and attending the hearing will be awarded to you by the court. As LIP you can also claim for more than your out of pocket expenses, time spent preparing for the hearings can also be claimed.

 

Not sure why you feel the court is doing things out of order, a VO was applied for by the defendant, you rejected the amount offered (based on what you know about the defendants circumstances) so a hearing is arranged at which a DJ will set the amount to be paid. If you have evidence about the defendants circumstances use the hearing to present this evidence to the court so that it will be taken into account by the DJ.

 

A defendant does have as much a right to the use of the Courts as the Claimant, the fact that in this case they appear to be wasting money applying for Judgments to be set aside and then failing to attend is very much up to them. Perhaps they are hoping you will throw in the towel.

 

At this stage I would be looking into the possibility of Attachment of Earnings or Charging Order, if following the Redetermination Hearing the defendant does not then start to pay you need to be ready to make the next move and not wait for the defendant to do something else (although I think they are now on their last option).

 

Out of interest has the defendant attempted to settle with you directly by making a reduced full and final settlement offer?

 

B40

[Sunshire]

Thank you B40. The possibility of Attachment of Earnings or Charging Order is useful. I will look into this.

 

The reference to doing things out of order is because following the variation order application, the court wrote to me setting a higher amount than the defendant offered to pay so I had assumed that was because a judge had considered my objection to come to the to higher amount as part of their deliberations which seemed logical. Now I'm no sure the judge even looked at my objection before a payment amount had been set, hence the hearing. I was wondering why bother making a decision, and then do it all again at hearing?

 

The applicant has (only recently) paid my awarded costs for the first two hearings. They have never offered to pay me a penny of what is owed (reduced amount or otherwise) - I tried at length to communicate with them amicably at the outset but after a while, it was clear I was getting the runaround.

[Blondie40]

Perhaps the defendant objected to the higher amount the court set, following your rejection of the original amount the defendant offered to pay.

 

I presume their is only a certain amount the court can do without a hearing being held.

 

Defendant will have to explain why they can only afford amount they originally offered. If you have any evidence that defendant can afford more you need to be prepared to use this at the hearing otherwise DJ may accept what defendant says.

[Sunshire]

Can someone tell me how long a CCJ stays on someone's credit file please?Is it - 1. when a debt is paid off in full (if paid in installments or in one go) at which point it is removed, 2) a certain amount of years after the debt is paid off in full (either by installments or in one go), or 3) a certain number of years from the date the Judgment was made rewgardless of whether it is paid off, in part, or not (and do dismissed set aside applications have a bearing on when the clock starts ticking?)Many thanks