School dinner lady--

[duckwaddler]

The thing is, one of my closest friends is a British Muslim - and as a result of reactions such as the headline in this newspaper, she has tolerated so much over the 15yrs I have known her, all because she doesn't want to cause a fuss.

 

And I'm talking things that none of us would put up with, nothing to do with her religion - but she knew that had she have complained the reaction would have been along the lines of "Muslim complaining" "if you don't like it you know what to do/where to go".

 

It makes me so mad, I've always opened my mouth if anything's happened!

[Desperate Daniella]

I have friends who are Muslim but they wouldn't dream of carrying on like this. They all drink, and the women all wear normal clothes. It is not a requirement of their religion that they cover themselves, even their little girls, from head to foot. It is the double standards of so many of them that I find totally infuriating. The father is a crook, but kicks up a fuss about a genuine mistake by a dinner lady.

 

A Muslim friend of mine owned a minicab business. I was catering for an event and had boxes of wine to deliver and the minicab driver she sent refused to help me carry them because it was against his religion to touch alcohol. My friend's response when I told her was to say that his religion "didn't stop him *****ing white women while he was married and the reason he wouldn't help was just that he was a lazy so-and-so.

 

Before we had so many Muslims arriving here, there have always been many Jews, and my best friend is Jewish. Jews do not go round kicking up a fuss, demanding kosher meat in schools, and expecting everyone to change to suit them. Neither do Hindus.

 

There is resentment against Muslims precisely because the loud, vociferous minority demand that everything has to be done to suit them and those in power in the UK have been stupid enough to go along with it.

 

My Muslim friends are equally appalled at the behaviour of these new arrivals because instead of now being seen as part of UK society who just happened to practise a different religion they are perceived as being the same as these fanatics, and they don't like it all. One of my Muslim friends says she even gets filthy looks from women wearing hijabs if she happens to be wearing a T shirt and shorts. She is not like them, she doesn't want to be like them, and she is totally fed up of being lumped together with people like them who she thinks should go and live in Saudi.

[duckwaddler]

The thing is DD, the way your friends get dirty looks from Muslims who wear Hijabs, is no different to the dirty looks the Muslims get when wearing Hijabs from none Muslims or those who don't.

 

If your friends drink and wear shorts and T-shirt, then they're not practising Muslims.

 

A practising Jewish person only has to eat Kosha pork as far as I'm aware?

 

As for the guy who refused to carry the wine, that's strict Muslim, a little like a staunch Catholic, but as for the wotsiting the woman while married, I'm afraid that's just men, they're ALL pretty much the same no matter their religion or culture

[Nystagmite]

Jews do not go round kicking up a fuss, demanding kosher meat in schools, and expecting everyone to change to suit them. Neither do Hindus.

 

I've noticed this too. I have a friend who is a Hindu and he once wrote on Facebook that he'd forgotten his lunch and went out to get something. He went to a service station and they had no vegetarian food. He asked when would they have any in and was told a few hours time or something. That was it. He made no fuss at all.

[duckwaddler]

I may be wrong, but I do have a Hindu friend who I'll ask - but I'm certain the only meat Hindus can't eat is beef?

 

To be honest, I think the blame is being laid at the wrong feet here, the dinner lady's superiors ought to be ashamed of themselves for dismissing her, this, unless deliberate, is not a sackable offence in my opinion!

 

But DD, if I were you I would take a lot of what the newspapers say with a pinch of salt, they are renowned for stirring up hatred amongst the public, if it's not bad news, you very rarely see it ;-)

[Nystagmite]

I'm not sure on that. But I think some religious people say they're vegetarian just to make it easier.

[Desperate Daniella]

There is no such thing as kosher pork. Jews don't eat pork.

 

There is nothing in the Koran that says that practising Muslim women can't wear shorts and T shirts. I personally find it absolutely appalling that we see little girls as young as three covered from head to foot in boiling hot weather while their little brothers are wearing shorts and T shirts. It is totally wrong. Women are equal in this country, and schools should never have allowed Muslim girls to wear hijabs/burkas, etc. at school. At a school close to me more than half the pupils are dressed like that. It is the only single sex school in the borough and of course the Muslims demand that their children go there.

 

At another, Catholic, school in South London when potential parents attend the Open Evening the headmistress makes it clear that everyone wears the same uniform with absolutely no exceptions. As soon as she says that the potential parents in hijabs and burkas walk out.

 

The guy who wouldn't carry the wine was selective about the bits of his religion he was choosing to follow. That's what I meant by double standards.

 

20 years ago there wasn't the resentment there is now towards Muslims; it is the behaviour of so many of them which is causing this.

 

In the US people are taught to think of themselves as Americans first. It's a shame that we now have many people in the UK who think their religion is more important than their loyalty to their country.

[duckwaddler]

You're absolutely right Nystagmite, they do - so as not to have this sort of trouble!

 

I have done parties for 40+ children over the years, of all different mixed religions, there would be Muslim, Hindu, Bengali and English, and there were at least two children with peanut allergies.

 

I did a table with regular food, vegetarian food, and Halal food - it would have been near on impossible had I not had my lists with names etc, and help from a couple of Mums.

 

Only thing was, one year - the Halal food was cleared almost immediately of it's samosas, kebabs and curries & rice by EVERYONE so the year after I had to do two Halal tables

[Desperate Daniella]

I am just so glad I don't have to organize birthday parties like that. No nuts, as one of my daughter's friends has a severe peanut allergy, and that's it.

 

I've never bought halal or kosher meat for Muslim or Jewish friends, and they wouldn't expect me to. Maybe they are the wrong sort of Muslims and Jews?

[duckwaddler]

Yes, you're right DD, Jewish people can't eat pork at all, I don't know a great deal about the Jewish religion, so I wasn't sure.

 

I've read the Quoran, well the majority of it - and it does say that women must dress in a manner that doesn't reveal their figure.

 

It is personal choice at the end of the day, some people think it's disgusting that young girls are allowed to wear shorts or short skirts, but again, it is their parents decision till they become adults themselves.

[duckwaddler]

I am just so glad I don't have to organize birthday parties like that. No nuts, as one of my daughter's friends has a severe peanut allergy, and that's it.

 

I've never bought halal or kosher meat for Muslim or Jewish friends, and they wouldn't expect me to. Maybe they are the wrong sort of Muslims and Jews?

 

I have, and because I'm wheat/gluten allergic, my Muslim friend makes me wheat/gluten free samosas when we eat at their house.

 

I think it's nice to just have a little thought for others, and it's even nicer when it's returned

[Desperate Daniella]

I think it says they must dress modestly. I don't think wearing a T shirt and shorts is immodest. I'm not talking about bottom-showing ones, or skimpy T shirts, just the normal sort.

 

The problem is that by the time the little girls grow up having been forced to wear Islamic clothing all their lives they already perceive themselves as apart from our society, and as inferior to their brothers. If their parents want to dress them in this stuff out of school there is nothing that can stop them, but if they wore the same school uniform as the other girls they might at least for part of their lives feel the same as everyone else.

 

My mother had a health visitor for a little while last year after an operation. This was a woman wearing a hijab and my mother, who is very blunt, asked her why she wore it. She said she didn't want to, but her husband insisted, and had done so when they married 30 years before. She said that she absolutely hated it and it gave her a headache every single day but he was very dominant and she didn't have it in her to fight about it. I think that is very sad.

[Desperate Daniella]

I have, and because I'm wheat/gluten allergic, my Muslim friend makes me wheat/gluten free samosas when we eat at their house.

 

I think it's nice to just have a little thought for others, and it's even nicer when it's returned

 

It's always nice to be thoughtful, but as my friends eat in restaurants/buy sandwiches and wouldn't dream of checking whether the food there is Kosher or Halal they certainly wouldn't expect me provide it for them.

[duckwaddler]

Knowing rather a lot of Muslims, my friends family being one of the largest I have ever known, I can assure you that the women are not, nor would allow themselves to feel inferior to the males - in fact I'd say they wear the trousers

 

You probably have come across a few individual Muslim women who feel they must obey their Husbands - but my ex Husband expected me to obey him, he told me what to wear, where to go, and who to speak to, and if i didn't do as he said he would beat me.

 

He was a Scouser, Catholic, not a Muslim.

 

It's unfair to tar all Muslims with the same brush.

[Consumer dude]

I've nothing against anyone's religion as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others and make things up as they go along..

[duckwaddler]

I've nothing against anyone's religion as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others and make things up as they go along..

 

Exactly, we are all individuals and so have the right to our own beliefs.

 

Those of us who make a big hoo har about what Muslims do, are no different to those Muslims in the minority who think we should all do as they do.

[Desperate Daniella]

If I went to live in a country where it was expected that I should cover myself up then I would do so to show respect for my host country.

 

I am not tarring all Muslims with the same brush. I object to anyone of any religion coming to this country and expecting us to change to accommodate them.

[duckwaddler]

Offering a muslim their dietry requirements doesn't really affect our lives any more than offering a vegetarian option though does it?

 

A lot of what you hear DD is propaganda - this "story" of "baa baa black sheep" being banned from schools is complete rubbish, it was ONE privately run nursery that did it - there was also a "story" about a poppy seller in Liverpool who was attacked by a group of Muslims going round facebook/google....

 

It was an absolute fabrication, orchestrated by an ex member of the BNP, as Liverpool will not nor ever accept the BNP!

 

I purposely tried to find the article on the poppy seller story, as I am a Liverpuddlian, so wanted to know if it was truthful or not, and there was nothing - I also contacted the Merseyside police (as it did say in this fabricated report that the police were issuing a statement), the Merseyside police new nothing of it, it was a deliberate hateful story concocted to incite race hate!

 

Another myth that does the rounds - that you're not allowed to fly your British flag during the football season, it's absolute poisonous claptrap!

[Nystagmite]

Offering a muslim their dietry requirements doesn't really affect our lives any more than offering a vegetarian option though does it?

 

Indeed. And the requests aren't unreasonable either.

[duckwaddler]

Besides, us British don't really abide by other countries rules do we? You go to Saudi to either live, or to holiday, and they have their own holiday/living complexes where the British can drink alcohol and wear what they want.

 

I'd say building specific complexes for a nation who has moved into or is holidaying in your country, to allow them to do the things that go against your religion is putting yourself out - not that they're given much credit or respect for it.

[duckwaddler]

Indeed. And the requests aren't unreasonable either.

 

Of course they're not unreasonable.

 

Anyway Nystagmite, did you say something about the child having a wristband? What was this for?

[Desperate Daniella]

It does if it affects everyone else.

 

My builder was in prison for three months. All meat served in prisons is halal. He doesn't want to eat halal meat, so he was told he had to have the vegetarian option. How is that fair? It isn't.

 

Many schools serve only halal meat. Where is the choice for those who don't want to eat it? They must have the vegetarian option. That is not fair either.

 

I know a Muslim Pakistani girl who works on a beauty counter in one of our department stores. She and her boyfriend are on the run from both sets of parents. His parents think she is a ***** for wearing make up, showing her legs and her hair. Her parents also think she should cover up, and hate him because they consider his family are inferior to theirs. So they ran away from home. They want to live like a normal British couple. She doesn't want an arranged marriage with some cousin chosen by her parents, and why should anyone have to do that?

 

Another Muslim girl worked at my daughter's nursery school some years ago. Hair always covered and long Muslim dress - but enough bright red lipstick to put Rita Ora to shame and lashings of mascara, and she always seemed to be chasing the chef and pinching his bottom!

 

Here is Queen Rania of Jordan:

 

http://www.queenrania.jo/content/family She and her girls aren't covered up. It is totally unnecessary to cover up in order to be a good Muslim.

 

Many more women in this country took to wearing hijabs/burkas after 9/11. That is very sad.

[Nystagmite]

Of course they're not unreasonable.

 

Anyway Nystagmite, did you say something about the child having a wristband? What was this for?

 

I didn't. When I was in primary school, we were given wristbands which were either blue or pink depending on whether you had a packed lunch or school meal. I don't understand why they couldn't do similar at this school - one for children who eat meat, one for children who are vegetarians, etc. It won't be that hard and it's a lot easier than remembering what each child does and doesn't eat.

 

If the parents were that worried, why didn't they send him in with a packed lunch? When I was at college, I used to take in my own. Whilst they could cater (or would if asked, rather) for me, I much preferred having my own food.

[duckwaddler]

It does if it affects everyone else.

 

My builder was in prison for three months. All meat served in prisons is halal. He doesn't want to eat halal meat, so he was told he had to have the vegetarian option. How is that fair? It isn't.

 

.

 

Your builder is obviously a crook, not much different from the guy in the article.

 

So that's not an example I'm going to have sympathy for, besides, unless he had religious beliefs that stipulated he couldn't eat meat that had been slaughtered while a prayer was being said over it, then he was just nit picking, being awkward, and more likely looking to cause bother.

 

I will not ever agree with nit picking at a race or religion, inciting hate, or generalising!

 

What on earth does wearing a Hijab have to do with 911?

 

Should we rid all Cathoics or Irish because of the IRA?

[duckwaddler]

Which by the way I could be particularly bitter over, considering my neighbours Son was killed by an IRA bomb in Warrington.

 

But it is not all the Catholics or the Irish who are to blame!